Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 41

[Ryukama]

If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

 

[FateAlbane]

 

[FateAlbane]

Anyways, Jiren is looking as OP as he was hyped to be.

My reaction was kinda "urgh" at Kale no-selling a Kamehameha from SSB Goku - I get that they probably wanted to mirror that scene where Broly did the same to a SSJ Goku back in the first movie, but still...

Anyways, maybe she'll still have a part to play later on. And Goku will need some halp - if he was having trouble with Kale, Jiren will rekt him hard.

Other than that, not much. They were kind of Jerks to Kale in this episode too. ovo

Caulifla like "I have a new, better friend."

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Thanks Byakuya & Nibbler . I expected it to be uber powerful. The only thing that was oriented around Rage was well Super Saiyan Rage. And it seems this version is much stronger than SSR. Especially how Vegeta was referring to her transformation as an Saiyan's True Form, as opposed to SSB or SSG. I expected her to do something ridiculous .But... not like this. At least going off of scaling .

This segment also proved that she definitely doesn't scale to Cauliflia. Just her charging sent SSJ2 Caulifilia flying, while SSJ2 Goku was still sent flying, just buried wthin the ground.

People keep on telling me she isn't holding back. Well, no s*** sherlock. He isn't using SSBKK . OBVIOUSLY .

Not only that, but many people in the Tournament of Power referred to her power as either insane or terrifying [ Hit noted that Cauliflia awakened a "Beast", which is definitely a compliment of power for Kale ] . Not only that, but Vegeta also referred to it in that fashion as well [ " Be Careful, Goku. This might be a Saiyan's True Form " ] . Also notice how everyone in the room was petrified / amazed by her power [ Sans Jiren, for obvious reason. Even Toppo noted how even her voice was insanely powerful . ] . Vegeta noted she was dangerous and he had to be careful .

And nope, before you guys said she ran out of energy after the SSB Kamehameha , Piccollo said she "Can't control her powers" , which was the reason why she stopped. She also put him into a hold he couldn't get out of (debatably ) , and then either: threw him with enough force to knock Goku out of the transformation , or one of the ki blasts did it. It's pretty clear that either one of those things demorphed Goku's Blue Form back to Base, as there's no evidence he did it manually.Also, please notice how as soon as he recovered from either of the three attacks i mentioned , he said "Ow,ow,ow" to note he did take quite a bit of damage, and he was back in Base form. That should definitely be noted.

 

[FateAlbane]

Not sure Goku took much damage from her attacks seeing how he looks completely fine afterwards (and up for a fight against Jiren, but we'll see about that), but other than that, she still lolnoped his Kamehameha.

That's a thing.

Anyways, wait until SSB Goku fights Jiren and all that scalling flies out of the window.

 

[Aeyu]

She knocked him out of Blue into base, so I think she's at least stronger than Android 17, maybe as strong as Vegeta SSB during the Black arc. I actually don't mind her being as strong as SSB, I think it's less of an asspull than Android 17 being as strong as he is and Gohan nearly being that strong.

Also, I don't think SSB Goku could even touch Jiren, even at full power. I'm guessing the first time they actually fight, he goes straight to Kaioken, probably Kaioken x10 actually.

 

[FateAlbane]

What we see is her using some AOE attack to hit everyone and at that point Goku was still a SSB.

After all is said and done, Goku reappears back to base not because he was hit and forced back to base from SSB, but because - as he said many times already - he is preserving his energies.

He did it literally three times by now. He transforms into SSB, does one thing, then reverts back to either base or SSJ. Kale didn't revert Goku from SSB to base. He reverted back.

 

[TheAnonymousJoker]

meanwhile , im still waiting for Jiren V Hit V Goku.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

meanwhile , im still waiting for Jiren V Hit V Goku.

The main thing I'm looking forward for...

 

[FateAlbane]

Same.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

I think they're setting up his power mainly for Jiren. And possibly for Goku too if it's gonna be a Triple Threat Match.

 

[FateAlbane]

They also made the guy with Shunkan Ido sound like a big deal and then he got a Rider Kick to the face and that was it. #ded

 

[RadicalMrR]

They did the Yardrat dirty, poor guy.

 

[FateAlbane]

I was legit wondering "Why didn't he teleport back?" as he flew, since he could spam it.

 

[Shock97]

That was hilarous what happened to the Yardrat. Kale thrashed Goku around like a whip, seriously didn't expect her to be that powerful.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Just finished watching the episode and OMG!!! When Jiren one shot Kale and struk dat pose I was just like "OMG!!! that was so badass" and then Hit heard up and I was like "It's about to go down!" But the Goku showed up and ruind my hype.

I really was to hyped for Jiren vs Hit.

Everything else was ok to, just seeing Kale Berserker mode in action just screamed Broly.

 

[Aeyu]

What we see is her using some AOE attack to hit everyone and at that point Goku was still a SSB.
After all is said and done, Goku reappears back to base not because he was hit and forced back to base from SSB, but because - as he said many times already - he is preserving his energies.

He did it literally three times by now. He transforms into SSB, does one thing, then reverts back to either base or SSJ. Kale didn't revert Goku from SSB to base. He reverted back.

What about his whole "ow, ow ow," reaction to the whole thing, as well as being buried underneath rocks? That's not him simply turning off his SSB. Especially since he had no idea where she was at first. If she had been right behind him, for instance, that would be a very bad decision for him to make, since she would wipe the floor with his base.

 

[FateAlbane]

What about him being perfectly fine afterwards and willing to fight Jiren of all people?

I can say "ow ow ow" even if I burn the tip of my finger. Doesn't mean I'm that hurt, just that I felt some pain. You're reading too much into that.

 

[Aeyu]

I'm not reading into that, I'm reading into the fact that he didn't know where she was when he got up. I don't think he was hurt but I do think he was knocked out of SSB. It's been shown that he can be knocked out of SSB with enough force (vs Golden Frieza for instance) I also believe he could have gone back into SSB after that same fight, even using full power, so I also agree that he is conserving energy, but I do think that Kale is meant to be SSB level, since it sets up the tension with Jiren.

 

[FateAlbane]

Oh, I'm not arguing 3-A Kale. That's more than fair enough.

And I already mentioned how she lolnoped the Kamehameha anyways.

It's just that the scalling in DBS is all over the place atm (see Goku taking a bunch of hits from Kale while in SS2). The thing I doubt is that some of those many ki blasts that weren't even necessarily aimed at Goku knocked him out of SSB (even moreso considering that afterwards there isn't a scratch to be seen on him). Hence why I'm saying that he reverted back.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Im guessing the powerscaling debate next week will be about 18 from what I saw in the preview.

 

[Aeyu]

I'd be willing to think that he LET himself be knocked out of SSB, but I still think reverting would have caused an issue if she hadn't been somewhere else at the time, since she could have been right behind him. It's really irrelevant, actually, but it's just something I noticed.

And yeah, but the 3-A thing is getting shot down by people salty about her lolnoping the Kamehameha right now, even though it's not even slightly as controversial as the Gohan thing, which isn't really conclusive, whereas this one is.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Im guessing the powerscaling debate next week will be about 18 from what I saw in the preview.

Most likely

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

That still doesn't explain how Goku couldn't get out of Kale's grasp [ while in SSB ] afterwards.She still scales to SSB , via apparently : lolnoping his SSBKamehameha, and giving him a hold he couldn't escape from, even while struggling.

 

[FateAlbane]

Goku could probably do something about that hold in time or if he went fully serious or, again, if he wasn't preserving his energies. See how Gohan seemed to be worried at first but then Picollo told him to wait.

But the Kamehameha feat is fair game. If she wasn't around SSB level that would have at the very least sent her flying out of the arena.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Place your bets gentlemen if the triple threat match for the world heavyweight championship happens then who will win between the legendary hit, jiren the savage and goku?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Really don't see the issue with goku getting his ass kicked, kale's transformation is a new one that hadn't been tested, so don't see any powerscaling issues, not like goku was going all out with kaoiken and everything. And we all know goku is getting a new transformation cause jiren just one shotted kale like it's nothing, unless goku doesn't get a new transformation or kaoiken x50 or something, that's when i will call bs cause there is no way the current goku should be able to take jiren.

 

[Aeyu]

Place your bets gentlemen if the triple threat match for the world heavyweight championship happens then who will win between the legendary hit, jiren the savage and goku?

Currently, I'm guessing Jiren. If Hit was confident in taking him out, he wouldn't have prepared an escape. Goku may be able to hold his own against a semi-serious Jiren when using Kaioken x10 or stronger, but I doubt he would hold a candle to Jiren if he went serious.

 

[FateAlbane]

The only powerscalling issue I've seen was Goku tanking a bunch of bloodlusted hits from Kale while in SS2. Other than that, none.

 

[Aeyu]

The only powerscalling issue I've seen was Goku tanking a bunch of bloodlusted hits from Kale while in SS2. Other than that, none.

It could be argued that she powered herself up more for SSB after seeing its power.

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

Agreed. His fight with Narirama shows how easily he can solo 99% of competition.

 

[Aeyu]

If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

Agreed. His fight with Narirama shows how easily he can solo 99% of competition.

How likely do you think Hit will face off against Jiren or maybe defeat Toppo to get to him?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I also agree with Pegasus, and everything he just said.

I know he could Kaio-Ken, but it's something worth noting that even though he struggled in SSB, he wasn't able to get out. Gohan being worried seems to make the implications even higher though, considering he knows how powerful SSB is from experience. He told him to wait because her energy was going out of control, nothing to do with helping Goku or that fight .

I know the Kamehameha feat is good enough for her to scale to SSB .

Also worth to note Vegeta seemed scared of Kale, in a similar fashion to Broly . Especially in regards to her power

Also worth to note he had NO reason to go Blue in that fight. ABSOLUTELY none. She never said to use full power, she just wanted to smash him and things. In every other fight in the ToP, he had a reason to go Blue [ The trios de danger : wanted to end them quickly. The grabbling guy: Needed to get him off, or he was that strong, which doesn't really contradict anything ] . WIth Kale, he didn't need ANY reason, unless he thought like 17, she was a true threat to him.

I always called his first fight with SSJ2 vs Kale PIS , but still didn't do anything to her though. Unless what Aeyu said is true ( it's pretty likely ) , we can just say it's PIS .

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Hit and Jiren's stairdown got me so hyped. They better ******* fight! I also like that Hit took the time to save Caulifla, and the fact that it shows that the two are communicating with each other.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Seed I don't think anyone is arguing about Kale not being 3-A or around SSB level by now.

Almost everyone in this tournament (who has a name) is getting some 3-A scalling by the end of this.

 

[Aeyu]

@Seed I don't think anyone is arguing about Kale not being 3-A or around SSB level by now.
Almost everyone in this tournament (who has a name) is getting some 3-A scalling by the end of this.

With the exception of Tien, Roshi and Krillin, along with some of the weaklings in the beginning who got eliminated. Also, I don't necessarily think Gohan is, yet, but I think he definitely will be by the end of the tournament. I actually predict Gohan will be the one to defeat Jiren if it comes down to that.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I like how people are saying "inconsistency" when in fact it isn't. We never once saw Super Saiyan Berserk's true power. It best Blue is nothing new. Hit did so. Android 17 did so. Toppo forced a Kaioken. Kale is clearly a heavy hitter. Not only that once this tournament is over, everyone here should be in the MG+ -Universal range of power anyway.

Except SSJ2 Caulifla casually deflected a ki blast from Berserk Kale. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind deeming Kale as a heavy hitter among the other 3-A's. Otherwise, I smell PIS and/or outlier from Kale manhandling SSB Goku.

 

[Aeyu]

I like how people are saying "inconsistency" when in fact it isn't. We never once saw Super Saiyan Berserk's true power. It best Blue is nothing new. Hit did so. Android 17 did so. Toppo forced a Kaioken. Kale is clearly a heavy hitter. Not only that once this tournament is over, everyone here should be in the MG+ -Universal range of power anyway.

Except SSJ2 Caulifla casually deflected a ki blast from Berserk Kale. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind deeming Kale as a heavy hitter among the other 3-A's. Otherwise, I smell PIS and/or outlier from Kale manhandling SSB Goku.

I argued before that she could have powered herself up for SSB, which can somewhat be inferred from when Goku first takes on the form. If anything I would call Caulifla being able to deflect one of her attacks an outlier.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Mellennium

[SIGH] That blast was meant to kill Cabba, not Caulifilia. This also was debunked in Episode 100by how easily Kale knocked SSJ2 Caulifilia nearly off stage in episode 100[ by just charging forward and she received the backlash , not the full force ] , if it weren't for Hit. So that is clearly debunked.

 

[Aceraspire]

Too bad Goku yet again didn't use SSJ3 against Caulifllia