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Well from the chapter we can do a speed calc from gpku's camehameha no?
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 14
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball
- Status
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Jeune fou said:
Interesting.... Kid Buu take momentarily and return that genkidama.
but what is really interesting is this
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What does that mean?
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Where is this universal sprit bomb coming from? Well i know where it's coming from but weird it's just coming up now anyway just because it had energy from throughout the universe doesn't make it universal if that's what anyone is implying and anything higher than solar system level for it would be an outlier, wasn't there a thread for this that got shut down?
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who says they are only Solar System level?Celestial Pegasus said:
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Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was stated to be weaker than SSG Goku in manga.
So SSB Vegeta < SSG Goku < SSB Goku.
I hate it.
So SSB Vegeta < SSG Goku < SSB Goku.
I hate it.
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If ssjb is stronger than ssjg why did Vegeta lose to Hit? Goku didn't use kaio ken so how come Goku could match Hit and Vegeta not.
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I've read some spoilers for DBS and apparently with the introduction of Goku Black, there are going to be some BIG upgrades in the near future
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Link to the spoilers please. I want to see.Yojimbo1989 said:
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1. Vegeta was already worn out from his two battles earlier.Pannaliciour said:
2. Goku knew about Hit's technique while Vegeta did not.
ssb>ssg
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Nodoby in dbz is above solar system level because nobody is a trillion times stronger than cell saying anyone is is just ridiculous.AllFiction said:
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The manga is clearly doing it's own thing so don't take it seriously the anime is the main canon.Pannaliciour said:
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the form Goku used against Hit was called ssb Kaioken...
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1. Vegeta was already worn out from his two battles earlier.
2. Goku knew about Hit's technique while Vegeta did not.
ssb>ssg
Yes i know BUT, Goku ( ssjg) was moving in time stop, why couldn't Vegeta (ssjB) move in time stop? You said it yourself ssb>ssg.
2. Goku knew about Hit's technique while Vegeta did not.
ssb>ssg
Yes i know BUT, Goku ( ssjg) was moving in time stop, why couldn't Vegeta (ssjB) move in time stop? You said it yourself ssb>ssg.
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^goku was in base when the fight started. Then he went ssb then he went ssb kaioken...
Goku learned to predict Hit's next attack and improved along with Hit. Plus Goku knew how to counter the move due to VEGETA'S fight with Hit. Vegeta had no idea that time was being stopped since he never saw Hit fight beforehand unlike Goku who did......
Goku learned to predict Hit's next attack and improved along with Hit. Plus Goku knew how to counter the move due to VEGETA'S fight with Hit. Vegeta had no idea that time was being stopped since he never saw Hit fight beforehand unlike Goku who did......
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It needs not be a trillion times more powerful than cell to destroy more.Celestial Pegasus said:
there are many examples.
Mr. Roshi is only Mountain lvl with a power of 180, Vegeta being 100 times more powerful than Roshi can destroy a planet that is millions of times larger
even if we take the fact that Roshi destroys the moon, this still falls short since the energy required to destroy the earth is about 1000 times greater than it takes to destroy the Moon
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Are we going to do the same: POWER INCREASE IS NOT FREAKING LINEAL thing because i don't want that.Celestial Pegasus said:
the manga stated and then Dragon ball Super's narrator confirmed that Goku borrowed energy from the entire universe(otherworld included)
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Well,Beerus is not trillions times stronger than Cell yet he is Universal and Cell solar.What you need to remember and know is that in db world powers needed are not same as in RL,THat's why is fictionCelestial Pegasus said:
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Ohh so Goku was using kaio ken against Hit? I though he didn't. Nevermind than no more questions.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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That was obvious in anime too,i mean Vegeta went down after ONE heavy blow from HIt,while Goku even in just SSB tanked manyMKJ 6 18 01 said:
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^One heavy blow along with a few others from Hit. After 2 whole matches beforehand, along with the fact he didn't realize Hit used Time Skip while goku who watched his fight did... Yeah ssg>ssb....
Also Beerus is technically more than a trillion times stronger than Cell....The guy is Universe despite not being at full power...
Also Beerus is technically more than a trillion times stronger than Cell....The guy is Universe despite not being at full power...
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@AllFiction listen we don't use powerlevels or super sayain multipliers around here well because for one powerlevels don't scale linearly and two mulpliers are inconsistent. Roshi destroying the moon is an outlier because people stronger than him like goku and piccolo were only large island level. The energy scale we use here on this wiki says that in order to be above solar system level you have to be a trillion times stronger than just regular solar system level. Even if we used multipliers which show that ssj3 is 4x stronger than ssj2 and we know that ssj2 is solar system level than ssj3 would be 4x solar system level and even if we said goku's base got stronger assuming he got a trillion times stronger is just ridiculous and just imo wanking to get him above solar system level. We have already had a lengthy disscussion about all this a while back and the staff agree that no one in dbz is above solar system level.
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ok I understand, but I really seems stupid that logic. because as it is known that a character is trillions of times more powerful it another if this was never said?Celestial Pegasus said:
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@AllFiction it's simple really the energy required to destroy multiple solar systems is a trillion times more than just destroying one solar system and in the context of dbz we can't assume that anyone is a trillion times stronger than cell because it doesn't make sense, yea goku and vegeta could defeat cell easily as ssj2's and goku even more so as a ssj3 but we can't assume he is multi-solar system. Nothing needs to be stated about being a trillion times stronger than a solar system buster for a character to be multi-solar system level, if the character shows a feat of destroying multiple solar systems and it isn't inconsistent or an outlier in the series then it would be acceptable as we know we don't accept buu destroying a galaxy because it didn't happen in the manga so we have no feat of dbz characters being above solar system level and even this feat of the spirit bomb wouldn't make sense for them to be above that because again it's too ridiculous to assume anyone is a trillion times stronger than cell, a 100 times yea , a thousand probably a million maybe but not a trillion. It's the same thing we do with any other character tiering simply being stronger than another character doesn't make you go up a tier.
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2 matches with only SSJ,he wasn't tired at all,Dragonmasterxyz said:
Yea,if you go by vs wiki power up list to go from SS to Universal it would be in some crazy number like 10 at 40+,but in DB world Beerus is not that many times stronger than Cell
In fact,it would be possible to guess how many times he would be stronger
Goku SSJ2 Buu saga > SPC.So let's say he is twice as strong so that we highbail it and add SSJ3 x4 to SSJ2
You get SSJ3 Buu saga Goku x8 > SPC
Now,Beerus is probably millions of times of SSJ3 Goku at best,so a billion would be absolute high bail
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@celestial - and it makes senses for you that Beerus is what 10 at 40+ times stronger than SSJ3 Goku who is just SS.
I mean,it's fine for vs wiki to have rule that you need to be trillions times stronger to go from SS to multi ss,but that's for RL.
In fiction you don't have to be trillions times to go from SS to multi SS,or Tredecillion+ to go from SS to Universal
I mean,it's fine for vs wiki to have rule that you need to be trillions times stronger to go from SS to multi ss,but that's for RL.
In fiction you don't have to be trillions times to go from SS to multi SS,or Tredecillion+ to go from SS to Universal
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Whether ssj3 goku was solar system level or you wanna wank him up to galaxy the gap between beerus and him would be astronomical, the difference is beerus was protrayed as being unimaginable stronger than goku while holding back and while you could say defeating a solar system level character no matter how easily should never be assumed that that person is astronomically stronger which is true but the thing is beerus is a god and he was suppose to be on a level beyond anything we had seen before and goku got a new form to match beerus, though we know beerus was still holding back massively but that's besides the point. Beerus and goku showcased feats far beyond anything we had seen before in dragon ball and it is accepted because it doesn't contradict anything previously established in the series like accepting ssj3 goku above solar system level would as he doesn't have the feats in canon and from a scaling standpoint ssj3 was never protrayed to be trillions of times above cell, ssg was suppose to be on a another level and it has the feats to back it up as well. Ssg was not just another evolution of the super sayain transformations it was a form that was suppose to be godly and match the god of destruction, so naturally it has "godly" featsTestbot911 said:
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@Testbot I honestly don't understand you right now. You're pretty much saying that Beerus, Goku, Whis, Vegeta, Zeno, Champa, Hit and Vados shoould be downgraded to Solar System Level since y'know they don't meet the requirments according to you.
Despite it being fiction they still run off similar rules as real life, such an oxygenless vacuum known as space, gravity, force etc. That argument does not fly... If it did vs debating would not exist....
Despite it being fiction they still run off similar rules as real life, such an oxygenless vacuum known as space, gravity, force etc. That argument does not fly... If it did vs debating would not exist....
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I'm not trying to "wank" SSJ3 Goku to galaxy level,not once i have said he is galaxy level.Celestial Pegasus said:
My whole point is that rule for being ss to multi ss that is based on RL logic can't be applied to DB world since it's fiction,and not for DB world but for some others too.
And that's because Beerus is not 10 at 40+ times stronger than SSJ3 Goku,yet he is legit UNIVERSE level even without being so many times stronger and like i said,i'll say it again - that's fine,because it's fiction and in fiction you don't need to be trillions to go from SS to multi SS.That's whole point of this debate
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@Testbot you are basically going against the very purpose of what vs debating /fictional character indexing is suppose to be about with your logic we shouldn't apply real world logic because it's fiction if we go by that logic then there is no point in trying to analyze how strong fictional characters are because "it's fiction". We use an energy scale here and we try to place characters based on the feats they have shown in tiers. Beerus is universe level because he has shown the feats to back it up and while it makes him ridiculously above anyone from dbz in terms of numbers it makes sense we aren't just gonna throw our entire scale just because it's fiction. What i am seeing here is that you have an issue with our energy scale maybe this place isn't for you because every character here is scale based on it, this is how we analayze characters we aren't going to throw it away just because it's fiction because then what's the point of analyzing characters in the first place.
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Yeah, I want to see the spoilers as well, I want to know if any other God Tiers such as Beerus are getting Tier 2 in the futureYojimbo1989 said:
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@TheQueenDiclonius when i said dbz i didn't mean super they are 2 different series nobody from dbz is above ss but in dbs we have guys at universe level and now even multi-universe level.
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Well we should make these feats and statements outliers since none in DBS is trillions of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Vegeta(the latter pushing beerus to use 10%of his strength.), just admit it DB was never consistent when it comes to linear power up and logical scaling and since the manga and now Super confirms that the spirit bomb gathered energy from all around the universe, I can see Buu saga characters being SS+ or Multi SS at best tho.Celestial Pegasus said:
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