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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

SirAlex09 said:
The " You are trying to imitate a god. But I am a Saiyan connected to his primal root" line was too badass to forgot :p

But I felt like GT Goku was way out of character. He was depicted way too smart for someone who fired a 10x Kamehameha at Super 17 after knowing he can absorb energy but w/e. The animated fight itself was pretty intense and close. One didn't know who would win until the last second.
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And the same guy that TRIED TO EAT A DRAGON BALL
xATXr6.gif
 
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SirAlex09 said:
The " You are trying to imitate a god. But I am a Saiyan connected to his primal root" line was too badass to forgot :p

But I felt like GT Goku was way out of character. He was depicted way too smart for someone who fired a 10x Kamehameha at Super 17 after knowing he can absorb energy but w/e. The animated fight itself was pretty intense and close. One didn't know who would win until the last second.
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To be COMPLETELY fair, Z Goku did the exact same thing to Yakon and it worked. And the Original Androids never had their energy draining limits tested because they were immediately murdered. Even when they did succeed at draining energy, it's noted that the Z-Fighter's expert control of energy means that, at least for awhile, means jack squat because they can further artifically increase their powers.

With that all in mind, GT Goku attempting to energy-explode Super 17 makes sense (it worked on others + He was working on limited data), and if it didn't work as far as he was concerned he could go on longer. (Which he does.) It also has to be noted that Mu didn't even think S.17 could take that much. As in, he THOUGHT that 17 had died and FULLY EXPECTED him to. S.17 surviving was NOTED by him to be BEYOND HIS EXPECTATIONS. Implying S.17 MAY have had a limit in his design, or even if he doesn't, was not believed to be capable of surviving higher order energy attacks in a way that'd allow him to absorb them like he did. Meaning if he was as designed, he WOULD have died.
 
RinneItachi said:
Keep in mind that in Hyourinjutsu verse, Super characters are in their manga variants SPECIFICALLY. It's not the anime versions.
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Yeah. That said, though, I think that while Beerus winning was better, narratively, (as it is the perfect way to recreate the ending of DBS, a "real" God killing Zamasu and perpetuating the Cosmic Joke), from a raw powerscaling and logic perspective BVB should have won.

He had Goku Black's constant Zenkai's, advanced Ki manipulation (which created Ki-Doubles in another What-If), Kai Healing, a Time Ring version of King Crimson, (with the Time Ring itself providing protection against Death and an easy escape), the Kaioken, had Baby's Regen, Body possession, Power Sapping {from his victim's), Body Control, had Rildo's metal-transmutation, and much, much more. Baby Vegito Black's assortment of abilities is, when compared to most characters in Dragon Ball, long, and since even in animation with the Kaioken he was above UI Beerus, he realistically should have won. And that's not including anything he'd have in THEORY, (such as the Anime's Rift if he ever tried it, or scattering molecules like Baby does in more potent ways, or Goku's Imperfect Hakai, etc.) He was also outright given Granolah's Multi-Form ripoff, implying he had further abilities we did not see but totally COULD have used. (Like a variation of Moro's Magic, or a variation of his own Kai creation and teleportation magic, or advanced Spirit Control, etc.)

That's not to say Beerus doesn't have Hax, but BVB's is another level, was only slightly inferior stat wise, when going full tilt had advanatage, and in time would have had advantage in "Base." The video is awesome nonetheless, though, and again, I think it's just better story wise if Black ends here. Though, personally, I think it's sad Baby only got one video. Hopefully the small part of himself left on the Metal Sphere will regenerate back into him and he'll survive for another video.
 
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Sir_Marvulous said:
Beerus scales in an era far beyond Black. Even with all the zenkai boosts, it tracks that he is superior to the fusion
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Not really. Within the context of the vid, the Fusion is only moderately weaker than him. And not by much. It also has to be noted that Kaioken BVB was outright physically superior to UI Beerus-As in, Beerus wasn't superior. All BVB really needed to win was time, as well, as Black was able to cash in on massive Zenkai's that made his standard SSJ able to fight a SSG Vegeta. That, combined with his hax, should spell victory for him. Especially when you realize that 1) BVB never used a higher order of Kaioken. (That we know of). Even if he was using the full X20 to exceed Beerus (which he likely wasn't), due to the immense energy control superiority their form has they SHOULD be capable of a higher multiplier. And that's not mentioning that Black, one of his two parts, only had access to the 10x (meaning he should as the Fusion be capable of much, much more). 2) BVB at multiple times in the fight could have taken Beerus out. When he caught Beerus and then demonstrated Baby's physical matter, the GoD had been totally injured and could've been possessed. Had he cashed in on Zenkai's more and not let Beerus get to him, he would've overpowered him. Had he been more intelligent with his transmutation, Beerus would've been dead. Had he utilized his Ki body double, he could've gained the distraction he wanted to use the Kaioken. On and so forth. BVB's arrogance is what does him in, because he keeps underestimating the Hakaioshin and giving out secretive information. (Such as the Telepathy moment, when he reveals his knowledge of the Life-Link, abusing the Time Ring in front of them, etc.) That is to say, at repeated interverals BVB had an easy wincon and choose the harder path. Which makes sense, because arrogance + incidental adoption of Saiyan traits + Manga Black is a petulant child compared to Anime Black, who always remains calm and collected. Hence why here Black whimpers in death, whereas in the Anime Black saw death as an intoxicating thrill as he began to slowly become more syncronized with his Saiyan Body.

Edit: Also, another thing is Giru suddenly no longer functioning. The reason why is never explained (outside of the obvious fact he got thrashed hours beforehand), but right when he gets close he just dies. The obvious implication at the end is y'know, obvious moral Karma biting BVB in the ass (as it's the 4th Star Ball), but the point remains: BVB had yet another decisive option that fails him. (While some would interpret it as Beerus having done it, the GoD is responding to what BVB talked about before, trying to game the fight via Life-Link. This is especially obvious when you check back and remember that Beerus isn't able to figure out mechanical communications, and that BVB had Giru focus on a totally different set of Dragon Balls from the one Beerus DID listen in on. The normal ones instead of Black Star over at the Lookout.) In general, Beerus also had a few plot armor moments. Like when he decided to just cauterize his injury when he had no idea BVB could exploit those. Or when he figured out the telepathic communication, (and that in itself is odd considering BVB could just use his "mechanical" communication with his infected like he did in GT Canon before he forgot and started using verbal communication). I'd even argue Hakai'ing the metal is one, but a light variation, since from what I remember RIldo straight up transmutes that whole thing, not just creates an outer layer. And the obvious big one is having Sealed Kibito Kai, (not that it would've mattered because, as stated in vid his IT relies on an energy signature that doesn't exist). Though it was foreshadowed, so it gets an obvious pass. There's also minor things like them basically immediately figuring out that BVB uses the Time Ring to simulate dodging, after like a few seconds of this, despite the fact they literally state it's completely indistinguishable.

NishizumiShiho said:
How many Immortality does composite Goku has?
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1, 2, 3, 4, (Wish), 7 (Cannot die as he is already dead, if you want to count his dead self), and 8 (comes from TokiToki's Blessing).
 
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NishizumiShiho said:
Does soul in Dragon Ball need a rest?
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Kinda, but not really. At least, not in the conventional sense. While dead, eating or sleeping doesn't really matter in Dragon Ball. All "bodily limitations" are lost. Similarly, there was a reduction in stamina cost, like how Goku could sustain SSJ3 vastly easier while dead or while in the Afterlife. It's not a total loss of stamina cost, because it DOES certainly exist, but it is massively reduced. So you don't need conventional rest, (actual sleeping and recharging of energy via consumption), but you do need to have breaks of some sort because your Ki is still finite, even while dead, and your stamina is still utilized despite being just a materialized Soul.
 
RedReaper said:
Kinda, but not really. At least, not in the conventional sense. While dead, eating or sleeping doesn't really matter in Dragon Ball. All "bodily limitations" are lost. Similarly, there was a reduction in stamina cost, like how Goku could sustain SSJ3 vastly easier while dead or while in the Afterlife. It's not a total loss of stamina cost, because it DOES certainly exist, but it is massively reduced. So you don't need conventional rest, (actual sleeping and recharging of energy via consumption), but you do need to have breaks of some sort because your Ki is still finite, even while dead, and your stamina is still utilized.
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Aaaahhh okay, I get it.
 
RedReaper said:
Kinda, but not really. At least, not in the conventional sense. While dead, eating or sleeping doesn't really matter in Dragon Ball. All "bodily limitations" are lost. Similarly, there was a reduction in stamina cost, like how Goku could sustain SSJ3 vastly easier while dead or while in the Afterlife. It's not a total loss of stamina cost, because it DOES certainly exist, but it is massively reduced. So you don't need conventional rest, (actual sleeping and recharging of energy via consumption), but you do need to have breaks of some sort because your Ki is still finite, even while dead, and your stamina is still utilized despite being just a materialized Soul.
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Does having infinite stamina is qualified for SS Type 3?
 
NishizumiShiho said:
Does having infinite stamina is qualified for SS Type 3?
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Not really. Infinite Stamina can come as a result of Type 3, but it's not inherent. Even if it was, {Canon and Toei Canon} Goku would be the obvious exception, since while dead he has finite stamina. It's cost is merely just reduced, so he can fight longer and harder than, say, his normal self, but still will EVENTUALLY tire out in time. It's best considered as a stop gap, not an actual solution to that.

EDIT: I also want it to be noted that the inability to die is TOEI Canon, not main canon.
 
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Should we try upgrading the DBS Anime speed tiers via Vegito's multiplier? or has this been done before and was declined
 
Close this thread dammit the debates finally over Goku solos hes Omni everything meta potent he transcended transcending. The only person that can beat Goku is Goku himself though (Goku still solos)

Always bet on Hakari
 
RedReaper said:
Not really. Infinite Stamina can come as a result of Type 3, but it's not inherent. Even if it was, {Canon and Toei Canon} Goku would be the obvious exception, since while dead he has finite stamina. It's cost is merely just reduced, so he can fight longer and harder than, say, his normal self, but still will EVENTUALLY tire out in time. It's best considered as a stop gap, not an actual solution to that.

EDIT: I also want it to be noted that the inability to die is TOEI Canon, not main canon.
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I was talking about Universe Tree Goku for this one
 
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