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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Padaruyos said:
Planet Earth (and Broly) vs all the GoDs besides Beerus.
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UI Goku, UE Vegeta, Orange Piccolo, Gohan Beast, Broly could each probably solo all of the GoDs except Beerus. Beerus reveals he was only using 0.01% of his power against the other GoDs in the Zen exhibition royale and knocks out all of the Z-Fighters with a single flick of the finger.
 
Btw, does Buuhan's feat scales to the whole macrocosm or not? And if it does, why exactly? I saw some people saying It was baseline 2-C some time ago but everyone treats It as 3U 2-C
 
ChronoULT said:
Btw, does Buuhan's feat scales to the whole macrocosm or not? And if it does, why exactly? I saw some people saying It was baseline 2-C some time ago but everyone treats It as 3U 2-C
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It's just living world I think, macrocosm may be due to environmental destruction
 
NishizumiShiho said:
I recall back in the days there's profiles for them, why they deleted it?
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Deleted before, due to.......well.......constant downgrade and things that i don't remember, the verse was downgraded from tier 0 to tier 2, then people decide to delete the entire verse cause it was a mess, it just got revived recently
 
Demonbane scaling was always a nightmare, thankfully the verse has become kind of forgotten in the powerscaling community, I was sick of talking about it lol.

I remember those days, when Tenchi Muyo, Demonbane, TOAA, and The Presence were treated as like, the god-tiers of fiction or whatever.
 
RinneItachi said:
Demonbane scaling was always a nightmare, thankfully the verse has become kind of forgotten in the powerscaling community, I was sick of talking about it lol.

I remember those days, when Tenchi Muyo, Demonbane, TOAA, and The Presence were treated as like, the god-tiers of fiction or whatever.
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I fully remember that. Though, Demonbane is still a top dog verse, it's just the scaling is a nightmare to do.

Can't said the same about The Presence and DC along with Kami Tenchi and Tenchi Muyo!

Tenchi Muyo went from Tier 0 to 1-B. I look up into old edits from 2016 and Kami Tenchi pages is a mess.

CAS went from High 1-A to Low 1-C. That's a big oof right there.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
I fully remember that. Though, Demonbane is still a top dog verse, it's just the scaling is a nightmare to do.
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Ye.

I mean I just ignore verses with wonky scaling. Esp when the scaling is so contentious that no one even agrees anymore. Bleach is my fav example of that prob. Like, people vary on Bleach scaling so much, that for just the peak of the verse, opinions vary anywhere from around planetary to high-universal (including everything in-between) and I'm just like "You gotta be trolling right?", and some people try to get it higher than that. So I just don't even talk about it anymore lol.

Yujiro Hanma is also literally one of the most inconsistent characters I have ever seen. Sometimes he's compared to entire nations and nuclear bombs, then he's being given a nice fight by people who are renown for killing tigers and performing wall level feats like tf? And this is just all the time. Sometimes he shakes skyscrapers by just being mad or stopped an earthquake by punching the ground, then it's considered impressive for him to deflect a god damn whale harpoon lmao. His speed ain't much better.
 
RinneItachi said:
Ye.

I mean I just ignore verses with wonky scaling. Esp when the scaling is so contentious that no one even agrees anymore. Bleach is my fav example of that prob. Like, people vary on Bleach scaling so much, that for just the peak of the verse, opinions vary anywhere from around planetary to high-universal (including everything in-between) and I'm just like "You gotta be trolling right?", and some people try to get it higher than that. So I just don't even talk about it anymore lol.

Yujiro Hanma is also literally one of the most inconsistent characters I have ever seen. Sometimes he's compared to entire nations and nuclear bombs, then he's being given a nice fight by people who are renown for killing tigers and performing wall level feats like tf? And this is just all the time. Sometimes he shakes skyscrapers by just being mad or stopped an earthquake by punching the ground, then it's considered impressive for him to deflect a god damn whale harpoon lmao. His speed ain't much better.
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Inconsistent characters and verse do make a nightmare for powerscaler. Tell me, is Dragon Ball a nightmare to powerscale? My answer is kind off.

This is probably why DC get downgraded to oblivion in here, just because the cosmology keep changing and changing while the important event also changing and changing.

The cosmic beings also changing and changing, unlike Marvel which had in-verse explanation (TOAA changes the cosmology every now and then. Albeit, little lazy for them to said so)
 
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NishizumiShiho said:
Inconsistent characters and verse do make a nightmare for powerscaler. Tell me, is Dragon Ball a nightmare to powerscale? My answer is kind off.
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Kind of. It depends on who you're talking to tho. I think Dragon Ball is actually way more consistent than people give it credit for (besides the DBS anime maybe, oh and OG Dragon Ball for sure) but due to the scope of the franchise there's a lot of scattered feats and statements people will use to say this and that, I try to stick to a more middle-ground that's more easily agreeable and understandable (and also narratively fitting).

DBZ scaling was actually some of the most consistent cliffing I can think of ngl. We start out with Goku and Piccolo being highend moon level, Raditz therefor being at least highend moon if not lowend small planet, then several layers above him but within the same arc and general league as him, we have post-King Kai training Goku, Vegeta, and similar tier characters being actually planetary, with Vegeta maybe peaking at large planetary.

Then we get into space for the Namek Saga, where, after a huge amount of scaling chains, we get to first form Frieza who casually performed a dwarf star level feat with one finger, his final form which is 200 times stronger (which, according to calculations, makes him just around star level at his full Namek Saga power level), having a star level statement on top of that iirc, the Spirit Bomb having energy from several planets and dwarf stars, and an attack literally named Supernova if it wasn't obvious already.

Then we get into the Android/Cell Saga where, after a gargantuan scaling chain, we reach the top tiers who are solar system level, a pretty consistent upscale from star level.

Then we get into the Buu Saga where we have some debatable multi-solar-galaxy level stuff, maybe multi-galaxy (including the anime).

And hell, in the Super manga it keeps going, with most of the strong characters that are still beneath the God of Destruction tier mostly having a mixture of galaxy-multi-galaxy level statements at most, and then the GoD's, in a league above said characters, being consistently stated to be universal. Imo Goku still peaks at multi-galaxy in the manga, and pretty lowend too, and I think he'll reach uni by the end of it.

I'd say the DBS anime is where it gets inconsistent with Goku jumping to uni right off the bat, and even then the show can't decide if it wants to go up from that level for the rest of it so we just get a bunch of uni statements for the most part with the occasional high-uni or uni+ feat/statement.

NishizumiShiho said:
This is probably why DC get downgraded to oblivion in here, just because the cosmology keep changing and changing while the important event also changing and changing.

The cosmic beings also changing and changing, unlike Marvel which had in-verse explanation (TOAA changes the cosmology every now and then. Albeit, little lazy for them to said so)
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Yeah I mean DC is never gonna be consistent, that's the problem with having a BUNCH of different writers. That's why SCP verse scaling is the biggest nightmare.

Yeah it's p easy to understand how strong the abstracts and such are for the MOST part.
 
I do think manga Goku is already Low Multiversal but still weaker than anime Goku. 6 Universes and Nonillion c anime (possibly faster) vs 3 Universes and Trillion c manga.

I'll argue Post-ToP SSB Goku from anime would one shot and blitzed Black Frieza from manga.
 
RinneItachi said:
Yeah I mean DC is never gonna be consistent, that's the problem with having a BUNCH of different writers. That's why SCP verse scaling is the biggest nightmare.

Yeah it's p easy to understand how strong the abstracts and such are for the MOST part.
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What having bunch of writers does to a franchise cosmology and consistency.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
I will create an articel about SCP-X-191 that would downgrade SCP cosmology to Planetary at best by stating everything above Planetary is not canon.

Screw the everything is Canon, that's why DC get downgraded.
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If everything is canon, nothing is canon. There is no legitimate canon from a general perspective, not even a "main canon", and saying it all exists at once, is ludicrous, to the point of simply being a laughable remark. Even on the wiki itself, there is a page which explains that in some stories the Foundation can be as small as a tiny government agency limited to even as small as just one Site that barely dabbles in anything related to the supernatural, among practically infinite other possible versions.

The only thing that's canon is what a person chooses to believe as their particular version of the canon. Making the SCP verse borderline unscaleable in an overall sense. The only proper way to do it is to make everything individual. Take only a specific authors specifically demonstrated interpretations and portrayal of characters and stories, and ignore everything outside of what that author writes. An author can write a story where the most iconic SCP's like 173 and 682 don't exist if they want. It's literally a writer playground.

The SCP-3812 author hates the concept of powerscaling. Man's literally had a mental breakdown on Twitter because people kept bothering him about how 3812 compares to other verses.💀
 
RinneItachi said:
The SCP-3812 author hates the concept of powerscaling. Man's literally had a mental breakdown on Twitter because people kept bothering him about how 3812 compares to other verses.💀
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This is why you shouldn't make a character ridiculously overpowered like that. Transcending narrative and keep evolving to no end.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
This is why you shouldn't make a character ridiculously overpowered like that. Transcending narrative and keep evolving to no end.
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The worst thing is that the SCP-3812 author's interpretation of 3812 is without a doubt VASTLY different from ours.

We take statements from stories he had literally nothing to do with and apply 3812 to them. We also don't agree with the fundamental idea that the character was made with. djKaktus wrote 3812 to be able to transcend literally, a n y t h i n g, I'm not saying that means he should be considered omnipotent, but like, the author genuinely wrote him that way and has said it again numerous times. But obv due to NLF and reality-fiction scaling and such we can't take it seriously. Not to mention, djKaktus doesn't know about the tiering system or even a lot of tiering system ideas in general, and the ideas within the tiering system used for his characters would just confuse him or make him laugh I'd imagine. All of this creates a gap that makes it impossible for us to properly demonstrate how strong 3812 was meant to be in djKaktus writing, and besides which he doesn't care anyways. I could talk about this for a while lol.

Anyways, yeah the fact we treat different stories by diff authors as applying to each other is silly. djKaktus said during his mental breakdown that if we want Goku to be stronger than 3812 then he is, and vice versa, cause it doesn't matter and it's just a story. 1-A Goku upgrade when? Like let's just on g remove SCP mythos from the wiki it doesn't work in this environment.
 
RinneItachi said:
The worst thing is that the SCP-3812 author's interpretation of 3812 is without a doubt VASTLY different from ours.

We take statements from stories he had literally nothing to do with and apply 3812 to them. We also don't agree with the fundamental idea that the character was made with. djKaktus wrote 3812 to be able to transcend literally, a n y t h i n g, I'm not saying that means he should be considered omnipotent, but like, the author genuinely wrote him that way and has said it again numerous times. But obv due to NLF and such we can't take it seriously. This alone creates a gap that makes it impossible for us to properly demonstrate how strong 3812 was meant to be. I could talk about this for a while lol.

Anyways, yeah the fact we treat different stories by diff authors as applying to each other is silly. djKaktus said during his mental breakdown that if we want Goku to be stronger than 3812 then he is, and vice versa, cause it doesn't matter and it's just a story. 1-A Goku upgrade when? Like let's just on g remove SCP mythos from the wiki it doesn't work in this environment.
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HIGH 1-A GOKU WHEN? WORD OF GOD IS ABSOLUTE.

Lol, yeah. 3812 transcends anything is no limit fallacy and that's no good. It's like saying Hakai can erase Zen'ō despite Zen'ō possibly have resistance against literally everything in Dragon Ball.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
HIGH 1-A GOKU WHEN? WORD OF GOD IS ABSOLUTE.

Lol, yeah. 3812 transcends anything is no limit fallacy and that's no good. It's like saying Hakai can erase Zen'ō despite Zen'ō possibly have resistance against literally everything in Dragon Ball.
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Exactly, which is why scaling 3812 can't work because the idea his author made him with literally contradicts the idea of NLF. The author never, ever, wrote 3812 as just transcending a narrative portrayed as a "representation of our reality". djKaktus, or I should say, Ben, wrote 3812 actually transcending our reality, which Ben has restated numerous times outside of the article. Iirc he also said 3812>Swann's Proposal for the same reason. At that point, WHY would we take 3812 seriously? This is the same reason that Suggsverse isn't on the wiki, main diff being that djKaktus only had an interest in making a cool and compelling character that was OP to suit the main idea of the character, not to be OP for the sake of it.
 
RinneItachi said:
djKaktus only had an interest in making a cool and compelling character that was OP to suit the main idea of the character, not to be OP for the sake of it.
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His idea of 'OP' is crazy ass. Though, I can hack 3812 and erased it out of internet, does that made me Infinite layers beyond tier 0?/s

If only Goku hax wasn't so broken, i could made a stats equalize match between UT CC Goku vs the Big Three like Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
His idea of 'OP' is crazy ass. Though, I can hack 3812 and erased it out of internet, does that made me Infinite layers beyond tier 0?/s

If only Goku hax wasn't so broken, i could made a stats equalize match between UT CC Goku vs the Big Three like Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo.
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DBS Goku stats equalized?
 
RinneItachi said:
The worst thing is that the SCP-3812 author's interpretation of 3812 is without a doubt VASTLY different from ours.

We take statements from stories he had literally nothing to do with and apply 3812 to them. We also don't agree with the fundamental idea that the character was made with. djKaktus wrote 3812 to be able to transcend literally, a n y t h i n g, I'm not saying that means he should be considered omnipotent, but like, the author genuinely wrote him that way and has said it again numerous times. But obv due to NLF and reality-fiction scaling and such we can't take it seriously. Not to mention, djKaktus doesn't know about the tiering system or even a lot of tiering system ideas in general, and the ideas within the tiering system used for his characters would just confuse him or make him laugh I'd imagine. All of this creates a gap that makes it impossible for us to properly demonstrate how strong 3812 was meant to be in djKaktus writing, and besides which he doesn't care anyways. I could talk about this for a while lol.

Anyways, yeah the fact we treat different stories by diff authors as applying to each other is silly. djKaktus said during his mental breakdown that if we want Goku to be stronger than 3812 then he is, and vice versa, cause it doesn't matter and it's just a story. 1-A Goku upgrade when? Like let's just on g remove SCP mythos from the wiki it doesn't work in this environment.
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Really puts into perspective that we argue about some drawn figures :ROFLMAO:.
 
Anyway, I legit debate with someone that thought DBS Goku is the strongest Goku we have and that DBS Goku = CC Goku, even though they have major key difference.
 
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