Dragon Ball Super Cosmology Discussion

[Dragomer]

can u show a proof of the time ring being erased in the anime?

Here : https://ibb.co/Y7K655X

There should be 1 more time ring given the new one that Whis created with his timeline, totaling to 7, not the 6 we see.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I agree with 3-A.

 

[Planck69]

Seeing as all the knowledgeable staff that came to this thread have rejected the downgrade proposals, should I close this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Just a heads up; Whis and Beerus have never actually seen Zamasu or physically felt his power level outside of Infinite Zamasu. Present Zamasu was noted to be pretty weak compared to Goku, and they did see Goku Black, but never sensed his true power. The only real time they would note him as "Strongest enemy Goku ever faced" would specifically be Infinite Zamasu. I don't even think Zamasu would even be their first comparison if they simply compared him to present Zamasu or base form Goku Black. Also, people are still ignoring the fact that Beerus wasn't threatened by Infinite Zamasu but was very scared of Jiren.

Scans that they refer to Infinite Zamasu?

Also again, his ratings has nothing to do with his ki, but rather his sheer size

Beerus was scared of Jiren because no one in U7 was even close to him, so Beerus feared he would be erased by Zeno

 

[Dragomer]

The cosmology has been debated several times and it's perfectly fine as it is.

• Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from an ongoing manga or anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the discussion threads being oftentimes closed immediately.

I 100% support that, I'm just sick of this eternal arguing in circle.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Seeing as all the knowledgeable staff that came to this thread have rejected the downgrade proposals, should I close this?

Not yet. I think the opposition should be given a little more time to give any counter arguments before we conclude this.

And we need an official consensus on how to treat the cosmology to actually write down somewhere so we stick to it. A discussion rule to not change the cosmology isn't enough.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Here : https://ibb.co/Y7K655X

There should be 1 more time ring given the new one that Whis created with his timeline, totaling to 7, not the 6 we see.

When did Whis created a timeline?

 

[ZetaMarishi]

When did Whis created a timeline?

He and Beerus created one for Trunks and Mai to live in.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I’m still very upset at the conclusion of the last IZ thread because non of what I brought up was thoroughly debunked it was disregarded to focus on Jiren whom had nothing to do with the thread.

Zamasu’s feat falls under an unquantifiably higher than baseline feat for Low 2-C and arguably much higher than what Beerus and Chanpa were going to do individually that got them a combined 2-C feat

 

[Dragomer]

Thing is, if we currently accept Zeno to have destroyed the entire timeline then he'd scale to Low 1-C.

Wait, how? I heard the 3-A argument but not the low 1-C Zeno argument, THAT'S a new one? I thought Zamasu would be the low 1-C one?

 

[Lormac_CC]

A timeline contain all twelve universes within it

 

[AwkguyDB]

Zamasu was stated to be “affecting” the present timeline by Whis, he doesn’t even wear a time ring as merged zamasu

 

[Planck69]

Wait, how? I heard the 3-A argument but not the low 1-C Zeno argument, THAT'S a new one? I thought Zamasu would be the low 1-C one?

TL;DR an overarching timeline onto which regular space-time continuums are embedded would be Low 1-C since it's equivalent to uncountably infinite moments that contain 4-dimensional universes.

This seems to be the case with timelines in Dragon Ball Super.

 

[sanicspood]

 

[StrymULTRA]

1: What the user is doing is using the manga as supporting evidence to elaborate what was already shown in the anime. The manga he uses to explain that in Dragon ball, time passing for each Space-Time is congruent with one another. This is why the same amount of years has passed since Trunk's went back to his Time-line to the main timeline that we know about. This is why in the Dragon ball World, you can use the same measurement for time for some scale for the whole Timeline, because time is congruent for same Space-Time or different Space-Times.

Different continuites being used to support each other isn't a thing, unless now BoG Goku of both manga and anime are both 3-A because "similar feat"

3. Your link is broke, but if I was to assume what you're using, it's probably the Shenron scene. Which, as far as I'm aware, were never shown to be physically connected. It's suppose to represent each Universe to be shown in their own, 'Sphere' right by each other Universe. Which, means that they're at least spatially disconnected. This does not show one way or another that they if the same Space-Time or not.

Now?

There should be 1 more time ring given the new one that Whis created with his timeline, totaling to 7, not the 6 we see.

Proof of them being 7?

 

[Dragomer]

When did Whis created a timeline?

The new one he made for Trunks and Mai.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Scans that they refer to Infinite Zamasu?

Also again, his ratings has nothing to do with his ki, but rather his sheer size

Beerus was scared of Jiren because no one in U7 was even close to him, so Beerus feared he would be erased by Zeno

Gilad. You do know that Beerus was able to sense IZ’s Ki right? Why are you assuming IZ doesn’t have low 2-C levels of Ki? That’s a baseless assumption based off of, “well he’s a big boi.”

 

[StrymULTRA]

Zamasu’s feat falls under an unquantifiably higher than baseline feat for Low 2-C and arguably much higher than what Beerus and Chanpa were going to do individually that got them a combined 2-C feat

Already debunked as nothing stated he fused with the space-time, also appearing in other universes is just goddamn range

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Already debunked as nothing stated he fused with the space-time, also appearing in other universes is just goddamn range

Said range was physically travelled and range corresponds to power for omnipresent characters....especially when they are expanding beyond the confines of a dimension.

 

[StrymULTRA]

At the start they were 5 btw, not 7

 

[AwkguyDB]

What Zamasu Chan said Zamasu was actively affecting the present he didn’t use an already made portal his ki pushed through the dimensional boundaries that separated both U7s

 

[StrymULTRA]

Said range was physically travelled and range corresponds to power for omnipresent characters....especially when they are expanding beyond the confines of a dimension.

Lmao at range = power for omnipresents

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Gilad. You do know that Beerus was able to sense IZ’s Ki right? Why are you assuming IZ doesn’t have low 2-C levels of Ki? That’s a baseless assumption based off of, “well he’s a big boi.”

Because nothing states that his ki grew when he transformed into Infinite Zamasu. Otherwise we would see Shin, Goku or Vegeta saying something like "Oh my god, his ki became even stronger than ever before" (Which they did stated for regular Fused Zamasu)

 

[Dragomer]

TL;DR an overarching timeline onto which regular space-time continuums are embedded would be Low 1-C since it's equivalent to uncountably infinite moments that contain 4-dimensional universes.

This seems to be the case with timelines in Dragon Ball Super.

Anyway, let's stay on topic please.

The description does fit how it works in DB but I'm not a tiering expert so I'm not sure if it make it low 1-C. At least that's new even if I don't have much of an opinion on it.

 

[AKM sama]

Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.

The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Because nothing states that his ki grew when he transformed into Infinite Zamasu. Otherwise we would see Shin, Goku or Vegeta saying something like "Oh my god, his ki became even stronger than ever before" (Which they did stated for regular Fused Zamasu)

That’s dumb. Do you seriously need a statement that someone’s power grew when it’s shown right in front of you? Ever heard of feats > statements? Also why would size be separate from Ki?

 

[Giygas3]

"Different continuites being used to support each other isn't a thing, unless now BoG Goku of both manga and anime are both 3-A because "similar feat""

As I said, it can be used to elaborate something which was already shown to be the same for the anime. The BoG Goku feat are depicted somewhat differently across the two, while this one aren't shown to be different at all. Quite the same, in fact.

"Now?"

Thanks. Well in that case, refer back to my original argument for that.

"

 

[Dragomer]

Proof of them being 7?

Here : https://ibb.co/DWm8z3y

5 at the start +1 for the timeline where Zamasu take Goku's body + the new one made by Whis = 7.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That’s dumb. Do you seriously need a statement that someone’s power grew when it’s shown right in front of you? Ever heard of feats > statements? Also why would size be separate from Ki?

1. Fair point about the feats > statements

2. Because size has nothing to do with ki? Size literally never mattered in Dragon Ball, so why would it be any different here?

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

@Dragomer does have a point about the Time Rings imo. At the start of the Future Trunk arc there were only 5 Time Rings and at the end there were only 6 despite Beerus creating one Time Ring after Hakai'ing Zamasu and Whis creating another Time Ring with the new timeline Trunks and Mai went to live in.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.

The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

Already countered above

Here : https://ibb.co/DWm8z3y

5 at the start +1 for the timeline where Zamasu take Goku's body + the new one made by Whis = 7.

I see just 5 lol, not what you say

 

[Arcker123]

Doesn’t dragon ball operate on the multi world theory for time travel?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn’t dragon ball operate on the multi world theory for time travel?

Nothing stated so tho

 

[AwkguyDB]

Gowasu explicitly states that he became one with the Universe, his was not just occupying empty space he merged with the future timeline and was actively merging with the present

 

[Dragomer]

I see just 5 lol

Because the new ones weren't created yet, it's at the start before the one where Zamasu take over Goku's body and the one Whis made were created. Episode 54 to be precise.

 

[StrymULTRA]

As I said, it can be used to elaborate something which was already shown to be the same for the anime. The BoG Goku feat are depicted somewhat differently across the two, while this one aren't shown to be different at all. Quite the same, in fact.

So making exceptions because why not now?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Gowasu explicitly states that he became one with the Universe, his was not just occupying empty space he merged with the future timeline and was actively merging with the present

Present is just the Z Timeline in context, don't act like they're the same timeline

 

[Dragomer]

Doesn’t dragon ball operate on the multi world theory for time travel?

The whole vers's is 2-B IIRC but no one scale to that except possibly Zeno but it was judged that it would be a stretch to assume he can destroy that instead of just the timeline until we see otherwise.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

2. Because size has nothing to do with ki? Size literally never mattered in Dragon Ball, so why would it be any different here?

No what you’re doing is making shit up. IZ isn’t just bigger, he’s higher dimensional. And you’re the one assuming that his levels of Ki are infinitely inferior to his physical strength. Do you know how outrageous of an assumption that is?

 

[Dragomer]

No what you’re doing is making shit up. IZ isn’t just bigger, he’s higher dimensional. And you’re the one assuming that his levels of Ki are infinitely inferior to his physical strength. Do you know how outrageous of an assumption that is?

Especialy since by nature, getting better physicals also boost your ki. That's why even ******* Mr Satan has a higher PL than default despite not doing shit with Ki.