Dragon Ball - Quick Revision

[Omegabronic]

If the Afterlife is part of the universe, why would Goku going there mean he loses his rank as the strongest in the universe despite being the undisputed strongest around at the time?

his body would have been destroyed, meaning no body in the afterlife as shown with chiaotizu or chaos if you want to call him that, meaning that he would become a simple soul and no longer the strongest

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

For some reason this link is not opening for me. lol. Could you please give a summary of what it says there? being related to the topic of the thread, of course.

here is also giving error ;-;

 

[Omegabronic]

Ctrl + F → "Room of Spirit and Time".

said to be another dimension

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Holy shit, pedantic much?

Not really, when there's no direct counterevidence in place the Afterlife as part of the universe that isn't reliant on making extrapolations from single pieces of evidence while ignoring other instances that give them context. Even the Daizenshuu 4 you sent directly separates the entire universe and afterlife.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Could you please give a summary of what it says there?

The temple's lower portion is filled with complicated, maze-like passageways, and the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time is at the deepest part of the temple. The room here exists in a separate dimension, and outside of the entrance stretches a completely empty space.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

his body would have been destroyed, meaning no body in the afterlife as shown with chiaotizu or chaos if you want to call him that, meaning that he would become a simple soul and no longer the strongest

This was never the case with them (Goku, Tien, Yamcha, and Chaozu there too literally has his body and isn't a soul, that's why he could go to King Kai's planet), he always keeps his body in the Afterlife since he was given that privilege. In the Cell Saga he even immediately reappears with his body and his situation is distinguished from what you describe.

 

[Omegabronic]

This was never the case with them (Goku, Tien, Yamcha, and Chaozu there too literally has his body and isn't a soul, that's why he could go to King Kai's planet), he always keeps his body in the Afterlife since he was given that privilege. In the Cell Saga he even immediately reappears with his body and his situation is distinguished from what you describe.

only because kami remade their bodies, if you don't HAVE a body it is kind of hard to, you know, HAVE a body

 

[Reiner04]

I don't remember where in BoG they said that the Afterlife is part of the universe.

“universe will be turn to nothingness” literally the context there referring to U7 as whole.

The ToP Arc doesn't directly say anything about the other places being part of the universe

It does, infact it's about it. Universes being erased, the context.

この中が宇宙

This is a outer space, is a another translation for it

and this world map is specifically followed for the universe in the entire context super whatsover.

It's not about him defeating anyone, it's the fact that it was considered that him dying from Namek exploding meant that he would no longer be the strongest in the universe, even though he immediately reappears with his body and power intact in the Afterlife

The context is that he'll Die there regardless of being strongest, besides it's Kami's referring to the outer space is clear as he stated that frieza would destroy the universe despite knowing he can't reach after life ever, this was the context there, there was difference established, not to mention he is still not as beerus was still there.

 

[Reiner04]

Kami had context in his statement and difference was there. In here we know that HTC has no evidence for it to be a part of the universe, neither was implied but always stated otherwise. So it's where it's gone

 

[Reiner04]

Arguing for something that has no evidence and always has been suggested otherwise i don't know the intent..

If there is evidence, post it. If there is any justification post it. Idc about Dragonball and do not have the interest in it whatsover, I'll be fine if it had any justification for it being a part of the universe in the profile pages.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

only because kami remade their bodies, if you don't HAVE a body it is kind of hard to, you know, HAVE a body

Goku immediately appears with his body, and Kami was literally dead around the same time Tien/Yamcha/Chaozu died and went to the Afterlife and he never had the chance to do anything like that as he was lounging around at the Lookout while Nappa killed them and him by killing Piccolo.

“universe will be turn to nothingness” literally the context there referring to U7 as whole.
It does, infact it's about it. Universes being erased, the context.

Those just means that the universe will be destroyed, it doesn't automatically mean every other place affected becomes part of the universe.

As noted above, Super has given numerous instances to the contrary more often than not distinguishing the Afterlife from "Universe 7" which refers to what's perceived as outer space. Unless the Afterlife should be downgraded to be 3-B if it makes up less than 30% of the universe.

This is a outer space, is a another translation for it

and this world map is specifically followed for the universe in the entire context super whatsover.

Toriyama always uses that phrase to refer to the universe (not sure why it would make a difference though, outer space literally is the entire universe and the only difference is that outer space is a perspective of beyond Earth) and even the Daizenshuu 4 that map was made for separates the "entire universe" from the "Afterlife."

As far as Super goes, it doesn't seem to treat that world map as being literal, from when the universes are shown when Super Shenron was summoned.

The context is that he'll Die there regardless of being strongest, besides it's Kami's referring to the outer space is clear as he stated that frieza would destroy the universe despite knowing he can't reach after life ever, this was the context there, there was difference established, not to mention he is still not as beerus was still there.

The context is that he would lose the title by dying, even though he was considered the strongest at the time (Beerus' retconned later existence has nothing to do with what the characters thought at the time), this indicates that the Afterlife isn't part of the universe. That Frieza example really only confirms that the Afterlife isn't part of the universe after all, and outer space is literally the universe.

This is similar to when they say Moro was wreaking havoc throughout the 7th universe and that the GP is dispatched through its entirety, even though they don't reach the Afterlife either.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Since someone brought it up before :

the Daizenshuu is perfectly usable. The only part we discarded is the Infinite Galaxies one.

The reason to why we discarded it is dumb but yeah it’s usable

 

[Reiner04]

The context is that he would lose the title by dying, even though he was considered the strongest at the time (Beerus' retconned later existence has nothing to do with what the characters thought at the time), this indicates that the Afterlife isn't part of the universe. That Frieza example really only confirms that the Afterlife isn't part of the universe after all, and outer space is literally the universe.

Make a crt then for after life to be a universe. For now, wiki treats it as U7 unless you change it, it's still there, mortal realm being considered as conventional universe we know is something can be contexed, frieza capable of destroying universe can be contexed for mortal realm as he cannot reach U7. You find it problematic not me. We are done.

Now we are on here for ROSAT, what is the evidence for it to be a part of the universe? When it's stated to be outside whatsover? Are you referring it's in afterlife? Or like afterlife? Then it must be present in the Map? No?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The reason to why we discarded it is dumb but yeah it’s usable

really, I was looking at AKM's arguments it doesn't make any sense, and it's even disregarding Akira's own databook for them to downgrade the verse.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

really, I was looking at AKM's arguments it doesn't make any sense, and it's even disregarding Akira's own databook for them to downgrade the verse.

Ik

 

[Omegabronic]

Goku immediately appears with his body

because he had one when he died

and Kami was literally dead around the same time Tien/Yamcha/Chaozu died and went to the Afterlife

so? kami also had his body when he died, so he would still be able to make chiaotzu one in the afterlife

and he never had the chance to do anything like that as he was lounging around at the Lookout while Nappa killed them and him by killing Piccolo.

read above, he was likely allowed to maintain his body after his death

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Well the Living Universe Afterlife Kaioshin realms are considered different realms

 

[Omegabronic]

really, I was looking at AKM's arguments it doesn't make any sense, and it's even disregarding Akira's own databook for them to downgrade the verse.

please don't talk about people here, nor accuse them of having an agenda for downgrades of a specific verse, it can lead to not so good places threads of the past still haunt me with their words

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Now we are on here for ROSAT, what is the evidence for it to be a part of the universe? When it's stated to be outside whatsover? Are you referring it's in afterlife? Or like afterlife? Then it must be present in the Map? No?

WE ALREADY FIGURED THIS OUT. IT ISN'T.

 

[Reiner04]

Well the Living Universe Afterlife Kaioshin realms are considered different realms

Yeah and all of them are considered U7 together here on wiki as per Dragonball super context I find more than enough but I can see others who don't which I don't have any problem with. My problem is what the OP talking about.

 

[Omegabronic]

WE ALREADY FIGURED THIS OUT. IT ISN'T.

well then, why are we still talking about it?

 

[Reiner04]

WE ALREADY FIGURED THIS OUT. IT ISN'T.

Yeah. I am literally fine with any good justification or atleast implications of it being a part of the universe on God's name, even the slightest one which I've cleared it up in my before replies to @Irineu , but atleast a justification.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Make a crt then for after life to be a universe. For now, wiki treats it as U7 unless you change it, it's still there, mortal realm being considered as conventional universe we know is something can be contexed, frieza capable of destroying universe can be contexed for mortal realm as he cannot reach U7. You find it problematic not me. We are done.

Now we are on here for ROSAT, what is the evidence for it to be a part of the universe? When it's stated to be outside whatsover? Are you referring it's in afterlife? Or like afterlife? Then it must be present in the Map? No?

Well the thing is that mortal realm itself does actually seem to be U7, as we know from Whis' explanation and displays of the nominal universes, the Oracle Fish namedropping U7 in the Granola Arc while they simultaneously use the exact same title as in the Namek Goku scene (宇宙一), and the Moro Arc also using U7 directly.

The RoSaT being outside of the universe is fine though, I agree with that.

because he had one when he died


so? kami also had his body when he died, so he would still be able to make chiaotzu one in the afterlife


read above, he was likely allowed to maintain his body after his death

Goku's body was blown up by Cell, that's why he died in the first place, his original body was destroyed, but it reappears immediately, it even appears in the same spot he got blown up at.

Where is it ever even stated Kami creates anyone's body? In the Saiyan Saga he had to bring Goku's dead body and use that for him, and in the Buu Saga it's shown that King Yemma is the one who gives them bodies after their original one was destroyed (Vegeta).

 

[Reiner04]

The RoSaT being outside of the universe is fine though, I agree with that.

Yes, this is what I meant. I am not really up to any kind of act on timeline downgrade and will be there to oppose it even if someone tried and infact I guarantee it'll not be, it's dumb for separate universes to not have separate spacetime's, OP won't ever but I just don't get the idea behind ROSAT to be a part of the universe in any sense possible.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Yes, this is what I meant. I am not really up to any kind of act on timeline downgrade and will be there to oppose it even if someone tried and infact I guarantee it'll not be, it's dumb for separate universes to not have separate spacetime's, OP won't ever but I just don't get the idea behind ROSAT to be a part of the universe in any sense possible.

I see. Yeah, I was just pointing out how I thought the same thing for the RoSaT should be applicable to the Afterlife, but honestly you're right that it was kind of off topic and a matter for a different thread, that's my bad tbh.

 

[Omegabronic]

The RoSaT being outside of the universe is fine though, I agree with that.

I don't want to be annoying, but if the people arguing agreed with the thread, why is everyone still arguing? i am so confused right now

Goku's body was blown up by Cell, that's why he died in the first place, his original body was destroyed, but it reappears immediately, it even appears in the same spot he got blown up at.

we don't know that, we only known that he died

Where is it ever even stated Kami creates anyone's body?

from earlier in the thread "his body would have been destroyed, meaning no body in the afterlife as shown with chiaotizu or chaos if you want to call him that, meaning that he would become a simple soul and no longer the strongest" kami is the one who recreated his body

In the Saiyan Saga he had to bring Goku's dead body and use that for him

show it please

and in the Buu Saga it's shown that King Yemma is the one who gives them bodies after their original one was destroyed (Vegeta).

why can't it be both? also you concede that the body needed to be recreated

 

[Omegabronic]

it's dumb for separate universes to not have separate spacetime's

there is legit proof of it in db, not going to comment on it because it would be derail

 

[Reiner04]

I don't want to be annoying, but if the people arguing agreed with the thread, why is everyone still arguing? i am so confused right now

It's fine, he and most ppl misunderstood that it's a timeline downgrade which it is not and will not be but excuse that is written on the profiles about ROSAT is just kind of blow me off and is wrong if given as justification. The simple justification is that they're separate universes which is enough. That is all.

 

[Quasar002]

And it was supposed to be just a quick review. lol

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

we don't know that, we only known that he died

Cell literally blew up and killed him, and he immediately reappears with no damage, completely intact. What else does it imply?

from earlier in the thread "his body would have been destroyed, meaning no body in the afterlife as shown with chiaotizu or chaos if you want to call him that, meaning that he would become a simple soul and no longer the strongest" kami is the one who recreated his bodyed

That's fine, but he immediately gets a new intact body as shown when Cell kills him.

show it please

why can't it be both? also you concede that the body needed to be recreated

I don't think anything implies it can be both, but even if it were I don't think it makes a difference to the point. The body getting recreated is pretty much an instantaneous process as shown when Cell kills him and he reappears with an unharmed body.

 

[Omegabronic]

Cell literally blew up and killed him, and he immediately reappears with no damage, completely intact. What else does it imply?

that it killed him, but he still had a body afterwards

That's fine, but he immediately gets a new intact body as shown when Cell kills him.

read above

I don't think anything implies it can be both, but even if it were I don't think it makes a difference to the point. The body getting recreated is pretty much an instantaneous process as shown when Cell kills him and he reappears with an unharmed body.

prove that goku's body was destroyed?

you know what, let us stop since this is not relevant to the thread

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

that it killed him, but he still had a body afterwards


read above


prove that goku's body was destroyed?

you know what, let us stop since this is not relevant to the thread

Because he was literally killed and even before getting nuked had loads of battle damage, but was completely fresh and intact in his new body, all his injuries and even the damage to his clothes gone. Unless you think that Deadku's body has regenerative powers, but that doesn't seem to be the case when he fights using it in the Buu Saga.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

when does the important stuff come up

 

[Omegabronic]

when does the important stuff come up

after this thread is finished i suppose

 

[Vietthai96]

What the hell you guys debating about???

 

[Omegabronic]

i have no idea, but we should stop

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean, no offend, but i read through the thread, and it start devolving into something else that entirely different, borderline nonsense

 

[Omegabronic]

I mean, no offend, but i read through the thread, and it start devolving into something else that entirely different, borderline nonsense

yeah, sorry for that

 

[Nullflowerblush]

What can be done with these exactly?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

this one, too. the forum has a five attached media limit.