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- #121
when? what statement from the main cannon puts afterlife as "larger than the living universe"?
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Dragon Ball MWI undoing continuation thread
- Thread starter Omegabronic
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- 12,451
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- #123
nope, said to be continuation of the manga too many times already
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Might be an issue with my memory but I think the only direct statement regarding that was for the DBS Manga, not anime
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The visual depictions in Toriyama's illustrations combined with common sense. He clearly draws otherworld to be taller than the living universe though roughly similar length and width. Also, the common knowledge is it would need to be large enough to contain every single ancestor or someone who once lived and died. Meaning the population only ever grows, never lowers. Unlike the living universe that tends to have a population that expands and lowers. And Hell is definitely universe sized.
Uh no, that has been discussed multiple times. And DBS outright contradicts events that happen in the Anime and the filler. Some of the flashback resemble stuff we see in Dragon Ball Z Kai, but both versions of DBS are follow ups to the Manga.
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- #126
which was decided long ago to not be on scale whatsoever
that drawing isn't to scale, that was already determined and accepted, that is not to be disucussed here, it has several contradiction in relation to size, and if you want to take it literally then the afterlife would be physically connected to the living universe
can we not use rejected information as evidence? please?
exept that souls get re encarnated, also under your logic Universal in size wouldn't matter as it would eventually not be enough, so what you are saying th
so does the afterlife, why? because people re encarnate, it also lowers
also covered in another thread, it isn't, again, can we not try to dwelve into topics that were already rejected, cause i am not going to revolve this thread to try and re apply them
Hasty12345
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This is a pretty weak argument, especially considering we don't currently accept the spinning top diagram as being considered to scale, the same diagram depicts Snakeway as being approximately 1-half of the macrocosm, which iirc, is only 1 million kilometers.
Nullflowerblush
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How strange,
Top-left corner, directly underneath the graphic containing the "GLOBE OF THE DB WORLD".
球体に包まれた世界は神々の住む天界と人々の宇宙に分けられる。
"The world encased in a sphere is divided into the heavens where the gods reside and the universe where the humans live."
The kanji for "universe" and "cosmos", uchū, appears when describing the Living World, the universe.
And, again, above "THE UNIVERSE".
東西南北に分かれた宇宙
"A universe divided into north, east, south, and west."
Weird.
Almost as if "The Cosmos" has nothing to do with the universe, and is, instead, non-literal and simply describes Other World's organized, harmonious nature?
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@UchihaSlayer96 @LordGriffin1000 @Qawsedf234 @Elizhaa @Planck69 @Firestorm808
What do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
Hasty12345
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This thread shows evidence of it being possible to physically travel between the world of the living and the kaioshin realm:
vsbattles.com
which according to our standards is evidence against them being separate low 2-C structures, as shown in this comment here linking to the FAQ:
vsbattles.com
The evidence for and against this potential anti-feat probably needs to at least be somewhat debated, but at the time of me posting this, no such evidence that Goku's energy is using an alternate means of travel to enter the Kaioshin realm has been provided.
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
which according to our standards is evidence against them being separate low 2-C structures, as shown in this comment here linking to the FAQ:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
The evidence for and against this potential anti-feat probably needs to at least be somewhat debated, but at the time of me posting this, no such evidence that Goku's energy is using an alternate means of travel to enter the Kaioshin realm has been provided.
Killerdrone123
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Yeah buddy already countered that Goku is in the level where his raw power could create holes in space timesThis thread shows evidence of it being possible to physically travel between the world of the living and the kaioshin realm:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
which according to our standards is evidence against them being separate low 2-C structures, as shown in this comment here linking to the FAQ:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
The evidence for and against this potential anti-feat probably needs to at least be somewhat debated, but at the time of me posting this, no such evidence that Goku's energy is using an alternate means of travel to enter the Kaioshin realm has been provided.
Hasty12345
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"countered"
Killerdrone123
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You didn't even replied to my new message
Hasty12345
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I don't think I need to.You didn't even replied to my new message
Killerdrone123
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You don't have anything to say right
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Its not physically traveling there lmao, that can be interdimensional range, we already have statements of only teleportation being possible to get there, as seen many times in the series, the kaioshin realm is not physically connected to the macrocosm at all.This thread shows evidence of it being possible to physically travel between the world of the living and the kaioshin realm:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
which according to our standards is evidence against them being separate low 2-C structures, as shown in this comment here linking to the FAQ:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
The evidence for and against this potential anti-feat probably needs to at least be somewhat debated, but at the time of me posting this, no such evidence that Goku's energy is using an alternate means of travel to enter the Kaioshin realm has been provided.
Hasty12345
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I think you need to understand that merely responding to an argument does not mean you've countered it. My lack of reply is due to the fact you didn't provide any evidence to your claim, you merely made an assertion.
Sure, you can provide that evidence and counter all the evidence in the thread I linked. Your friend won't.
Killerdrone123
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What evidence you need it is literally on the ki manipulation page on dimensional travel reasoning that at this level of power they could create rifts and holes in space times
The op is arguing it is done via raw power lol
Hasty12345
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And where is the evidence a rift in spacetime was created here?
From what I remember, it's very explicit when this is happening in the series.
Killerdrone123
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Are you kidding me it is like axiomatic lol
Hasty12345
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Ok, so every time Goku powers up, or anyone for that matter, with that level of Ki is "axiomatically" opening rifts in spacetime?
Broly should have obliterated the entire macrocosm with spacetime rifts just by powering up.
I use Broly for a very obvious reason, he does not have god ki and he is above SSJ3 Buu Arc Goku, and his ki control is very VERY much lacking. If powering up axiomatically caused rifts in spacetime for these characters, it would be made far more explicit.
Killerdrone123
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And thats the thing exactly what was buuhan doing which was said to be amplified version of voice shout they also have capability of destroying the planet with ki blasts it doesn't mean that there every single ki blasts destroy the planet logic we could also see in super broly movie when broly powered up we see space and light bending same could be seen when there beam clashed where they shattered space time.
here to when Goku was powering up his raw power has characteristics to bypass space time barriers and reach kaioshin realm that's all I am arguing I don't know why you made it into an ap argument lol it is already accepted that they are capable of doing dimensional travel with it this would be more then likely interdimensional range that's it
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Hasty12345
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No, I'm not the one saying they axiomatically destroy the planet by powering up. You are saying they axiomatically create rifts in spacetime by powering up. This is not an argument and this is not my logic whatsoever.
I don't disagree he has the capacity to create a rift in spacetime, I disagree with the notion that because he can he is. You have not demonstrated nor proved this is what happened in this scene when all we see are the vibrations physically travelling without any indication of interdimensional travel whatsoever.
Your argument is entirely dismissed by Occam's Razor.
Killerdrone123
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Dude it is very straight ki and raw power has shown capability of bypassing space and time that's why Goku power was able to reach kaioshin realm that's my point is more occams razor than yours
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How do you not know this? The kaioshin realm has been accepted to be a different spacetime for a while now, and that thread isn't even accepted. But sure, not sure why you're using that thread as some sort of evidence when it hasn't even been accepted nor properly argued.
Hasty12345
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It absolutely does not and far more powerful characters not doing this passively entirely destroys your point.
Whenever spacetime rifts are created, it is very intentional.
Killerdrone123
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Passively?dude Goku was powering up he was exerting raw force there same happened when broly did we know some funky stuff happens whenever they power up this was the whole point of the scene you are really making a big deal out of it when it is not
When we have more then enough evidence to support that only way to reach there is via dimensional travel and it was also mentioned in manga to have a separate time dimension then rosat all this evidence literally points out to interdimensional range
Hasty12345
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I do not see anything that explicitly requires these realms to be separate spacetimes, and there's an on-panel anti-feat that proves they do not meet the standards for separate spacetimes, they are physically connected in such a way that allows for ki to travel between them. Not to mention these statements are coming from outside the source material which seems to be contradicted in the source material.
I know it's stated or implied there's an engraved barrier separating the Otherworld from the WoL which would also indicate they're not separate spacetimes either as they're only disconnected by a literal physical object.
I disagree based on my earlier comments.
Killerdrone123
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Agree to disagree
Hasty12345
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I don't feel the need to make any more comments regarding this point, if more evidence shows up that supports the secondary material or evidence that necessitates the need for separate spacetimes outside of vague "teleportation is needed" from secondary or tertiary canon than I guess it's fine.
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This thread shows evidence of it being possible to physically travel between the world of the living and the kaioshin realm:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
which according to our standards is evidence against them being separate low 2-C structures, as shown in this comment here linking to the FAQ:
Goku's power reaches the Kaioshin Realm
This is a continuation of this dis-continued thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssj3-goku-4-b-4-a-justification-change.142242/ Though I am not proposing for this to be an AP feat, more specifically a range and speed feat This will also only temporarily be in the calc forum, after the calc...
The evidence for and against this potential anti-feat probably needs to at least be somewhat debated, but at the time of me posting this, no such evidence that Goku's energy is using an alternate means of travel to enter the Kaioshin realm has been provided.
Every Kaioshin kingdom is outside the Universe, it is a separate dimension of the Universe.
We all know that it is only possible to go to the Kaioshin realm through dimensional travel or teleportation (which is still used in the manga and anime itself) anime and manga confirm this
The character's own ki has the ability to distort space-time to go to other dimensions, it wouldn't be a counter argument to say that it is possible to travel physically, although it is not possible.
Hasty12345
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I addressed all of this.
If you're going to mock me, read the arguments first.
Being a separate dimension does not equate to separate spacetime, that does not meet the standards of evidence for low 2-C.
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Serious? That's your irrefutable arguments?
It is still necessary to go there by teleportation
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But that's basically what the characters use to go to that location, dimensional travel and teleportation is necessary for you to go to other dimensions with separate space-time.
Hasty12345
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No argument is irrefutable, but I don't consider you to have refuted mine.Serious? That's your irrefutable arguments?
Let's just agree to disagree before this devolves into us name-calling one another.
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Oh no, you know you're wrong and want to be right, but your point of view doesn't work here, friend
I wouldn't be so low when insulting others, but have good arguments, please.
Hasty12345
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Me not wanting to go through the same argument with you I just had with your friends is not me "knowing I'm wrong", it's me having a life I prioritise over constantly repeating myself.
Improve your education.
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To be a separate spacetime, all thats required is physical separation, and the kaioshin realm cant be traveled to regularaly, only teleportation, and they are separate worlds entirely. Not sure whats so hard to understand about that, just the same arguments over and over again. But im done arguing this, its derailing, its alr accepted that kaioshin realm is indeed a separate spacetime, and interdimensional range can access it.
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Hasty12345
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I don't appreciate your condescending tone, I've outlined the problems with your argument, you not understanding that is not my problem.
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- #160
In the level of super buu and ssj3 gotenks, which ssj3 Goku is not at, so he can't do that
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