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That appears to be the case.
I have to be noncommittal because it's entirely possible CC Goku could in the future (or in currently unknown text) be stated to come from one of Heroes' own adaptations of Dragon Ball Super.
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Dragon Ball Games should have its own page.
- Thread starter sanicspood
- Start date
I have to be noncommittal because it's entirely possible CC Goku could in the future (or in currently unknown text) be stated to come from one of Heroes' own adaptations of Dragon Ball Super.
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Do we use the promo anime, game, or manga for the prison planet arc, cause there are differences between them.
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crazy how i made a thread about cc goku but no one wanted him to be on vsbw
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Game and manga, the game takes precedence if the two conflict.
He's a hard sell, but he (especially taking DBZ and DBS Goku into account) has more than enough from the arcade to warrant a page.
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Vietthai96
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Well back then i don't care much cause CC Goku is just Xeno Goku with SSB instead. But after re-watching the anime and when i know that we could use the card for some abilities, i find him actually have slightly different asset of skills compare to Xeno Goku which could worth a profile
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Didn't see the topic, I've only recently started checking the Questions and Answers board for DBH topics.
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i would if i actually knew how
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I have very little knowledge on DB Heroes (and even some games), I wouldn't know how to properly structure the page.
Imho, people knowledgeable on Heroes and such could work together on someone's sandbox, making it better and better until it is finished.
Imho, people knowledgeable on Heroes and such could work together on someone's sandbox, making it better and better until it is finished.
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I can help with that, I'm very knowledgeable about all the relevant characters.
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Well, half of the work is just moving the part of the regular Dragon Ball verse page that concern the games to its own page, and creating the standard verse page sections, but we need a summary and power of the verse section text as well, yes.
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Okay. Thank you. Feel free to write a sandbox page for this, and then link to it here.
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I've finished the first draft of the page.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Dominodalek/Sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
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niceI've finished the first draft of the page.
Dominodalek/Sandbox
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@Antvasima For the record I agree with making a separate page for Dragon Ball games. We already have a lot of Game exclusive characters, and there are many more that could be added. I think the current proposed sandbox looks good. If you want further input on something let me know though.
@Dominodalek Perhaps add in DBF and DBL tabs as well, Mecha Goku can fit under DBF, and Shallot under DBL for now, and both tabs could be filled out with more later for sure. Alternatively we could just do an "Other games" tab and dump everybody not from Heroes and Xenoverse in that, but I feel if we choose to flesh out the game profiles we may want to have them separated down the line anyway.
@Dominodalek Perhaps add in DBF and DBL tabs as well, Mecha Goku can fit under DBF, and Shallot under DBL for now, and both tabs could be filled out with more later for sure. Alternatively we could just do an "Other games" tab and dump everybody not from Heroes and Xenoverse in that, but I feel if we choose to flesh out the game profiles we may want to have them separated down the line anyway.
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That might be best for now, at least until we have enough characters to give them proper sections like the Heroes/Xenoverse characters.
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@Antvasima I don't mind helping with that. Although I'm fairly busy until the end of the week so it would have to be over the weekend, at which point I could flesh it out some more.
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I don't have time to write a full reply tonight, but I have big issues with the Notes section, and the outdated description of the continuity as a whole.
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then u should've wrote it
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@Dominodalek Fair enough. I as well will be fairly busy over the week, so if it is long winded I may need to wait until next weekend to address it, but will gladly look at your rebuttal. Those notes are the current agreed upon standards on the site however.
Vietthai96
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What about Xeno Broly, his profile is outdated as hell
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It does need an update for sure. But updating the profiles and adding some new ones that should exist is a separate project. This is just to get a well organized and accurate page created for DB games.
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I know some massive changes are in the works, so I'll save my detailed criticism for that, since I know it will come up.
The basic points are that Heroes should not scale to Xenoverse (this is generally agreed upon, and we'll be rid of it entirely when Demigra gets updated), Heroes does not incorporate every media ever into itself (it has its own adaptations of most media, but the media itself isn't automatically canon to it - and some of the media claimed to be canon is not so), it does not take place in a "real world" (adaptations are very explicit about it being a future version of the main timeline, and the main narrative takes place outside of the game world) and we no longer need to treat Heroes characters as massive composites (Arcade and manga are usually sufficient for characters, plans exist to examine feats from spin-off games, characters originating from spin-offs like Beat and Chamel would be unaffected).
The cosmology as a whole I believe may also come into question, but I'm not an expert in that field.
The basic points are that Heroes should not scale to Xenoverse (this is generally agreed upon, and we'll be rid of it entirely when Demigra gets updated), Heroes does not incorporate every media ever into itself (it has its own adaptations of most media, but the media itself isn't automatically canon to it - and some of the media claimed to be canon is not so), it does not take place in a "real world" (adaptations are very explicit about it being a future version of the main timeline, and the main narrative takes place outside of the game world) and we no longer need to treat Heroes characters as massive composites (Arcade and manga are usually sufficient for characters, plans exist to examine feats from spin-off games, characters originating from spin-offs like Beat and Chamel would be unaffected).
The cosmology as a whole I believe may also come into question, but I'm not an expert in that field.
Vietthai96
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1. Yeah, after a bunch of research i agree Xenoverse and Heroes should be split. we also should pay attention to DB Legend as well
2. I know the Arcade and Manga are the source material, but what about Promotion Anime. Also Heroes have a huge branch off/spin off as well
3. Yeah, the cosmology should goes revision, actually i think should be a massive one because i think Heroes cosmology is actually way larger than we currently know
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A quick thing I want to correct now because this is a common misconception, Heroes has had an ongoing storyline since the start of their adaptation of GT in 2012. Super Dragon Ball Heroes wasn't even when the Time Patrol narrative started - officially it begun with the Dark Demon Realm Saga a year earlier in 2014, and the Time Patrol itself first debuted in 2014 during their Shadow Dragon arc.
Theoretically the promotional anime can be cited, but only if it does not contradict any higher (ie pretty much anything else in the series bar the openings/trailers) material, and in practice this will almost never happen. The spin-offs are complicated, we really need to handle them on a case-by-case basis because mindlessly mashing them all together is stupid.
I'll be interested to see the evidence. Most of the current evidence for 2-A Heroes (barring TPU Mechikabura and above) is likely to become inadmissible (mostly statements from unconnected games, plus mass scaling to an amped spin-off Demigra), so they'll need it.
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@Dominodalek
I will say this for now just after skimming the argument and off the top of my head. The way we handle DBH isn't perfect, but it is imo the best solution. As is stated in the notes, DBH does have many different adaptations of it's stories, nobody will deny that. With a few being longer more recently, but most just being small self contained stories or scenarios that loosely connect, especially pre SDBH. I maintain very few, or none of these long running ones are consistent and streamlined even within their own "continuities", so pretending separating them will make the series consistent is wrong, and will result in many new, nearly identical profiles being created, which are stripped down, and imo a lot of unnecessary work and upkeep.
Also I don't claim Xenoverse is the same continuity as DBH, hence why we don't scale DBH backward to it, just that it should be viable to scale to Heroes due to the nature of the franchise crossing over with it and most other DB media explicitly, and treating the "real world" like our own, which is directly stated in several sources as well, even citing real world games at times. It's the same idea as why we scale the anime to the games, but not the other way around, since it is clearly intended to be a part of the content considered in the continuity and creation of the story, even if the story deviates and we can't explicitly prove the anime occurred exactly as shown in the game as well. By your logic we should remove any scaling between all forms of DBH, and all other games, as well as the anime, manga etc. since they have deviating continuities, which seems like a bad idea to me.
I will say this for now just after skimming the argument and off the top of my head. The way we handle DBH isn't perfect, but it is imo the best solution. As is stated in the notes, DBH does have many different adaptations of it's stories, nobody will deny that. With a few being longer more recently, but most just being small self contained stories or scenarios that loosely connect, especially pre SDBH. I maintain very few, or none of these long running ones are consistent and streamlined even within their own "continuities", so pretending separating them will make the series consistent is wrong, and will result in many new, nearly identical profiles being created, which are stripped down, and imo a lot of unnecessary work and upkeep.
Also I don't claim Xenoverse is the same continuity as DBH, hence why we don't scale DBH backward to it, just that it should be viable to scale to Heroes due to the nature of the franchise crossing over with it and most other DB media explicitly, and treating the "real world" like our own, which is directly stated in several sources as well, even citing real world games at times. It's the same idea as why we scale the anime to the games, but not the other way around, since it is clearly intended to be a part of the content considered in the continuity and creation of the story, even if the story deviates and we can't explicitly prove the anime occurred exactly as shown in the game as well. By your logic we should remove any scaling between all forms of DBH, and all other games, as well as the anime, manga etc. since they have deviating continuities, which seems like a bad idea to me.
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That's why I'm saying they shouldn't be weighted above the source material, which they currently are. We should stick to the adaptations of the main storyline (ie the arcade, the current manga, and the anime) and only use the non-canon stories (ie Victory Mission, the handheld ports) to support arguments, or for characters specifically belonging to those continuities (ie Beat, Note, Chamel, Sealas, Ahms, U6 Mr. Satan).
Not at all, we can just not make those profiles - or if those versions are distinct enough (such as UMX's amped Demigra) give them separate keys.
It doesn't cross over with it though, Heroes just includes characters that also appear in the Xenoverse games. Other media is a different story because they're largely shown to have happened in the Heroes continuity, but there is no such evidence for Xenoverse, and a massive amount of evidence saying otherwise.
Quite the opposite, the "real world" (as-in Beat's World, which is people talking about the "real world" are referring to) is explicitly just a future version of the Dragon Ball world, which is a major plot point in two out of the three continuities it appears in.
The difference is that the anime is repeatedly shown to have happened in the games, whereas Xenoverse has not.
In an ideal world I would actually agree with this, but with the lack of information there is relatively little harm in assuming that events played out roughly the same way between versions, if we are given enough evidence for that being the case. With the anime, movies, etc. we have that evidence, with Xenoverse there is absolutely nothing.
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We don't weight them above the arcade, we simply include them as viable feats and scalable, just like the DBZ/GT/Super anime, which is not explicitly part of the same continuity either. If you insist that we sperate Xenoverse and all other games and even Heroes media from the Super Dragon Ball Heroes arcade due to continuity, despite their connections, then you would have to do the same with all DB media for the same reasons.
So you want to only make arcade usable, and make the manga, anime and all spin off information and stories unusable in the main profiles, and basically non existent since they would for the most part have no profile? Because that is essentially what that would do since they all have at least some deviations, but are often very similar.
Heroes does explicitly do crossovers with many other games, and they do explicitly mention Heroes as being like our own world, and mention UMX and 3DS by name in some material.
(This blog is an excerpt from an old accepted reasoning for the current standards, and a rough copy, but it outlines the point.)
vsbattles.fandom.com
The real world in some stories is called a future version, but not all, and it is explicit that the over arching RW is supposed to be from our perspective, and based on our world, with the same media such as stories and games. The main difference is in DB those events actually happened lore wise.
The DBZ/GT/DBS anime is never explicitly showed or stated to have happened in heroes, and there are contradictions and deviations of the manga and anime events in most games. We still scale the anime to the games however, just not the other way around, since they share characters and some events, but that is the extent of it. Xenoverse scales for the same reasoning, plus the fact it is likely part of the DB media in the Real world just like UMX. If you discard and separate all DBH media from the arcade and refuse to scale Xenoverse and other games due to ultra anal continuity arguments then you would have to scale nothing, not even anime or manga to any DB game due to the same continuity argument since they are not explicitly the same continuity.
I won't support that since I feel there is enough proof that Heroes considers and implements to some degree basically all DB media as depicted with all the explicit crossovers and virtually all the characters and all their forms being present, and substantiates this with the notion that the RW is depicted as being like our own and using our own media like the 3DS and Heroes UMX, and that it should be viewed from our world perspective more or less. And I see it as fundamentally double standards, arbitrarily choosing to scale some things like the anime and manga, which have different continuities from the games, for sharing some characters and scenarios, and not others like Xenoverse and other Heroes media, which also shares many characters and story elements.
So you want to only make arcade usable, and make the manga, anime and all spin off information and stories unusable in the main profiles, and basically non existent since they would for the most part have no profile? Because that is essentially what that would do since they all have at least some deviations, but are often very similar.
Heroes does explicitly do crossovers with many other games, and they do explicitly mention Heroes as being like our own world, and mention UMX and 3DS by name in some material.
(This blog is an excerpt from an old accepted reasoning for the current standards, and a rough copy, but it outlines the point.)
DBH includes most official DB media in it's cosmology
vsbattles.fandom.com
The real world in some stories is called a future version, but not all, and it is explicit that the over arching RW is supposed to be from our perspective, and based on our world, with the same media such as stories and games. The main difference is in DB those events actually happened lore wise.
The DBZ/GT/DBS anime is never explicitly showed or stated to have happened in heroes, and there are contradictions and deviations of the manga and anime events in most games. We still scale the anime to the games however, just not the other way around, since they share characters and some events, but that is the extent of it. Xenoverse scales for the same reasoning, plus the fact it is likely part of the DB media in the Real world just like UMX. If you discard and separate all DBH media from the arcade and refuse to scale Xenoverse and other games due to ultra anal continuity arguments then you would have to scale nothing, not even anime or manga to any DB game due to the same continuity argument since they are not explicitly the same continuity.
I won't support that since I feel there is enough proof that Heroes considers and implements to some degree basically all DB media as depicted with all the explicit crossovers and virtually all the characters and all their forms being present, and substantiates this with the notion that the RW is depicted as being like our own and using our own media like the 3DS and Heroes UMX, and that it should be viewed from our world perspective more or less. And I see it as fundamentally double standards, arbitrarily choosing to scale some things like the anime and manga, which have different continuities from the games, for sharing some characters and scenarios, and not others like Xenoverse and other Heroes media, which also shares many characters and story elements.
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Vietthai96
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Actually Heroes encompassed all of Dragon Ball into it, and iirc Xenoverse stated that inside Universe 7 have many different timeline inside it
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Yet they shouldn't be viable, because the versions of the characters aren't at-all comparable. Demigra was massively amped when he performed his feat in UMX, yet practically everyone in the series scales from him.
As I have made clear, I am advocating specifically for Xenoverse, and the Heroes media not adapting the primary Heroes storyline, not to be connected. Other DB media have connections to Heroes, they do not.
"We should stick to the adaptations of the main storyline (ie the arcade, the current manga, and the anime)"
They won't be non-existent, anything notable enough to be mentioned can receive coverage specific to that continuity.
No issues there.
Yes, a gag strip shows Salsa playing on a 3DS, that doesn't prove anything.
I'll probably have covered some of those points already, but I'll go through the blog later.(This blog is an excerpt from an old accepted reasoning for the current standards, and a rough copy, but it outlines the point.)
DBH includes most official DB media in it's cosmology
The "real world" (technically there are two real worlds, but the real real world doesn't affect anything) appears in three distinct continuities - Victory Mission, Ultimate Mission X and World Mission. In Victory Mission, characters from GT's epilogue show up (one of Goku Jr.'s classmates notably being a friend of Beat) the "real world" Dragon Balls appear, and the Dragon Ball events are described as myths that the Dragon Ball Heroes game is reviving. Ultimate Mission X doesn't have any explicit suggestions, though notably the actual DBH events aren't accessed through the game like everything else, but instead using a Time Machine. World Mission on the other hand is very direct that all the Dragon Ball events happened in the "real world", and a major plot point is Beat being a descendant of Goku.
Most of the first set of missions covers the anime, plus parts of it (using actual screenshots of the anime) appear during the "Age of Dragon Ball" levels during the Universe Missions.
Usually the games are set after the events of the anime, and we can reasonably assume that the events happened roughly the same way, so it's safe to scale. This isn't true with Xenoverse - it can't take place after Xenoverse as Heroes shows the first encounters with all the major villains in the Xenoverse continuity, and it can't take place before for obvious reasons.
Already covered this strawman argument, that's not what I'm arguing for.
Not all of Dragon Ball is encompassed, just a substantial amount of it. We can't just assume that things are connected to it without any evidence.
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You can use the exact same continuity logic for any DB media. Your argument separates any and all scaling since it is predicated on the continuities deviating. Demigra already has separate keys and more could be added, the fact is even in this "amped" form guys like Xeno Goku and Beat can still take him out, who are not amped.
No other media is explicitly part of SDBH arcade continuity, they are only implied to be through similar characters, some shared events, and crossovers, and they all have discrepancies in continuity to Heroes. Xenvoerse shares many characters and similar events, just like any other media that is scaled. Trying to exclude Xenoverse and other Hereos material, yet include other media just for having similarities is double standards.
Double standards yet again. Why should we include specifically only those adaptations, which are still somewhat inconsistent to one another, and arbitrarily exclude all other content as viable? Makes no sense.
Yes they would essentially be non existent because you would have any spin off, expansion or secondary canon be unusable in the Heroes profiles, and we could not make new profiles for them since they are so similar to the existing heroes profiles.
It proves a lot. It is literally an official part of the media that explicitly expands upon the fact that the RW is supposed to be viewed as similar to our own, which is what is implied by much of the DBH media, aside from the events of DB actually happening as well.
Yes, the big difference like was said is that the events of DB actually happened, either in another timeline or the distant past in these worlds, which are explicitly shown to be like our own at the time, even including our games and lore for DB. Doesn't change the fact that our DB lore is meant to be their DB lore, including games like UMX and Xenoverse.
Then you are arguing for double standards where we arbitrarily accept some separate continuities as scaling to Heroes for having similarities, and not others.
Most of the lore implied it, and going by narrative it all is part of the RW lore.
Tell you what, provide actual proof that the manga continuity for SDBH, and DBZ/GT/Super anime explicitly happens in the exact same way as it does in SDBH arcade, thus making it part of the continuity, not just by using the same characters existing, or some events lining up or being referenced, or crossover events, because I could easily show such things for Xenoverse or other Heroes media as well, even if they don't perfectly fit in continuity. Fact is your argument is based on continuity, and you cant even prove the things your suggesting we use in the profiles are explicitly part of the SDBH arcade continuity without using the same arguments that are used to link Xenoverse or other DBH media, despite some inconsistencies.
No other media is explicitly part of SDBH arcade continuity, they are only implied to be through similar characters, some shared events, and crossovers, and they all have discrepancies in continuity to Heroes. Xenvoerse shares many characters and similar events, just like any other media that is scaled. Trying to exclude Xenoverse and other Hereos material, yet include other media just for having similarities is double standards.
Double standards yet again. Why should we include specifically only those adaptations, which are still somewhat inconsistent to one another, and arbitrarily exclude all other content as viable? Makes no sense.
Yes they would essentially be non existent because you would have any spin off, expansion or secondary canon be unusable in the Heroes profiles, and we could not make new profiles for them since they are so similar to the existing heroes profiles.
It proves a lot. It is literally an official part of the media that explicitly expands upon the fact that the RW is supposed to be viewed as similar to our own, which is what is implied by much of the DBH media, aside from the events of DB actually happening as well.
Yes, the big difference like was said is that the events of DB actually happened, either in another timeline or the distant past in these worlds, which are explicitly shown to be like our own at the time, even including our games and lore for DB. Doesn't change the fact that our DB lore is meant to be their DB lore, including games like UMX and Xenoverse.
Then you are arguing for double standards where we arbitrarily accept some separate continuities as scaling to Heroes for having similarities, and not others.
Most of the lore implied it, and going by narrative it all is part of the RW lore.
Tell you what, provide actual proof that the manga continuity for SDBH, and DBZ/GT/Super anime explicitly happens in the exact same way as it does in SDBH arcade, thus making it part of the continuity, not just by using the same characters existing, or some events lining up or being referenced, or crossover events, because I could easily show such things for Xenoverse or other Heroes media as well, even if they don't perfectly fit in continuity. Fact is your argument is based on continuity, and you cant even prove the things your suggesting we use in the profiles are explicitly part of the SDBH arcade continuity without using the same arguments that are used to link Xenoverse or other DBH media, despite some inconsistencies.
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Not just deviating, Ultimate Mission X's plot is radically different to the primary Heroes narrative. UMX Xeno Goku being able to beat someone that main Xeno Goku has no reason to be able to just means that UMX Xeno Goku is stronger than main Xeno Goku. Should we treat Anime Goku and Manga Goku as being equally powerful too?
Again, this is false, plenty of media is explicitly shown to be part of the continuity. This is a blatant false equivalency.
Already explained this. The adaptations I mentioned follow the main Heroes plot, the other adaptations do not.
Already answered this. Any characters exclusive to the spin-offs could get their own profiles, anyone else could get separate keys.
It's also a non-canon gag strip, it means nothing.
That's a pretty big difference, plus it's never been depicted to be anything like our own.
Give some examples.
The original series has been shown a few times, notably in the Red Ribbon Army Saga added in Jaaku Mission 1 (covering everything up to the Red Ribbon Army Saga) and the Demon King Piccolo Saga added in God Mission 4 (covers the titular saga, plus separated what-if scenarios) which includes cutscenes straight from the anime. Z has been shown several times - the whole thing was covered in the game's early missions, the Cell Saga appears several times in various sagas about Future Trunks, the Buu Saga got a full adaptation in Big Bang Mission 6, and the Age of Dragon Ball missions added throughout the Universe Missions had Sealas and Chronoa watch various battles from the sagas, again using cutscenes from the anime. Dragon Ball GT has been adapted multiple times - the most prominent was during the Galaxy Missions, which was altered for various reasons, but straight adaptations have appeared as part of the Age of Dragon Ball missions, and as a separate thing in Big Bang Mission 3. Super was adapted throughout the God Missions and the early Super Dragon Ball Heroes updates, covering everything from Beerus to the ToP. Again, it also appears as part of Age of Dragon Ball, as well as in the Future Trunks Saga added in Big Bang Mission 4 and the Dragon Ball Super: Tournament of Power Saga added in Big Bang Mission 5. It's more than just a handful of events being loosely similar, the whole thing happened roughly as shown. Whether their adaptations were exact or not is irrelevant, since that is not the point being argued.
Please do, I would like to see them.
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@Dominodalek
The level of deviation is not the point, the fact is all DB media deviates to a degree. So by your logic we should simply not scale anybody to Hereos, or use double standards to arbitrarily pick ones that scale despite discrepancies.
Not nearly the same, the anime and manga are separated as strict continuities on purpose, hence why we don't scale Xenoverse or Hereos in those profiles. If we go the route of separating Heroes as strict continuities then like I said, nothing scales, even between heroes stories, and you have 12 versions of Xeno Goku and Vegeta. The profiles become bare and separated into many similar variations, or just disappear completely since all material outside the main arcade becomes unusable.
It is a part of the official media and secondary canon, it is just as valid as anything else. The only thing you could argue is more valid is the SDBH arcade. You don't get to arbitrarily pick which official content is more canon than other content outside the obvious arcade, since that is what it is all based off and promoting.
It is one major difference, however aside from that DB is treated as a story just like in our Universe in the Real world, and we explicitly see that it is supposed to be treated like our own and from the same perspective when they are literally playing UMX and using a 3DS and it is stated they want you and them to experience the story the same way, which alone is enough, and you are supposed to view it from that perspective via your avatar in game. Not to mention all the crossovers, unique characters, similar events and references showing that the various stories are all being considered and incorporated in Heroes to some degree.
Cutscenes don't prove that it is explicitly part of the continuity. DBS anime has them from DBZ/Kai and we don't accept that as sufficient proof they are the same continuity. So not sufficient if you wanna claim the continuities fit almost perfectly. Simply mentioning events from the DBZ/GT/DBS anime doesn't mean it is the same continuity. They mention Buu in the Janemba movie, and show Frieza events in the Cooler movie, but we don't accept them as the same continuity. In Heroes the whole notion of the Real world and them forgetting that all DB lore actually happened contradicts things like GT, DBO etc. where they all know about ki and the past. So no, it doesn't fit neatly in, and is not the exact same continuity.
Sure, some similarities are Xenovese and Heroes clearly both use unique characters like Towa, Mira, Demigra (who originated in Xenoverse) Fu etc. as main story points. They also clearly utilize the movies, GT, Super etc. in their lore. They Also use the concept of the time patrol as well, and have many overarching elements like the time nest, crack of time, Demigra's sealing etc. Many of which originate in Xenoverse, even if they have deviations in Heroes. Xenoverse has also directly crossed over with other games such as Dokkan, which have explicitly crossed over with Hereos further showing the interconnected nature of the various media at least on some level to Heroes. We know Hereos also literally considers the games and perspective we have as similar to their own Real world as shown in the promotional manga when a Demon God literally plays UMX on a 3DS and you are told that they want you and him to experience the story from the same perspective. I will not claim the events line up perfectly, they do not, but you can argue that of any DB media and even the separate media of DBH itself. Trying to alienate Xenoverse or other DB media from Hereos, and accept other media you deem viable is arbitrary and double standards. And going the route of nothing at all scaling is even worse.
Bottom line, if your arguing to separate all continuities and disallow any scaling between them, nothing scales, and we get either desolated profiles with 75% of DBH being unusable due to continuity issues. Or a dozen bare bones, repetitive profiles of the same characters from different heroes continuities. If your arguing to separate some continuities and use others arbitrarily because you think they are more consistent, its still double standards and cherry picking as none line up well all the time. It is not perfect allowing all official DBH content to be used in the profiles, there are inconsistencies, but there always will be no matter what you do, and you would just be creating tons of non beneficial extra profiles, and likely leaving the existing ones a husk with no value, or having no way to incorporate the rest of the media due to the continuities being so similar thus not suited to getting there own profiles separately.
I will not support your recommendation on this.
The level of deviation is not the point, the fact is all DB media deviates to a degree. So by your logic we should simply not scale anybody to Hereos, or use double standards to arbitrarily pick ones that scale despite discrepancies.
Not nearly the same, the anime and manga are separated as strict continuities on purpose, hence why we don't scale Xenoverse or Hereos in those profiles. If we go the route of separating Heroes as strict continuities then like I said, nothing scales, even between heroes stories, and you have 12 versions of Xeno Goku and Vegeta. The profiles become bare and separated into many similar variations, or just disappear completely since all material outside the main arcade becomes unusable.
It is a part of the official media and secondary canon, it is just as valid as anything else. The only thing you could argue is more valid is the SDBH arcade. You don't get to arbitrarily pick which official content is more canon than other content outside the obvious arcade, since that is what it is all based off and promoting.
It is one major difference, however aside from that DB is treated as a story just like in our Universe in the Real world, and we explicitly see that it is supposed to be treated like our own and from the same perspective when they are literally playing UMX and using a 3DS and it is stated they want you and them to experience the story the same way, which alone is enough, and you are supposed to view it from that perspective via your avatar in game. Not to mention all the crossovers, unique characters, similar events and references showing that the various stories are all being considered and incorporated in Heroes to some degree.
Cutscenes don't prove that it is explicitly part of the continuity. DBS anime has them from DBZ/Kai and we don't accept that as sufficient proof they are the same continuity. So not sufficient if you wanna claim the continuities fit almost perfectly. Simply mentioning events from the DBZ/GT/DBS anime doesn't mean it is the same continuity. They mention Buu in the Janemba movie, and show Frieza events in the Cooler movie, but we don't accept them as the same continuity. In Heroes the whole notion of the Real world and them forgetting that all DB lore actually happened contradicts things like GT, DBO etc. where they all know about ki and the past. So no, it doesn't fit neatly in, and is not the exact same continuity.
Sure, some similarities are Xenovese and Heroes clearly both use unique characters like Towa, Mira, Demigra (who originated in Xenoverse) Fu etc. as main story points. They also clearly utilize the movies, GT, Super etc. in their lore. They Also use the concept of the time patrol as well, and have many overarching elements like the time nest, crack of time, Demigra's sealing etc. Many of which originate in Xenoverse, even if they have deviations in Heroes. Xenoverse has also directly crossed over with other games such as Dokkan, which have explicitly crossed over with Hereos further showing the interconnected nature of the various media at least on some level to Heroes. We know Hereos also literally considers the games and perspective we have as similar to their own Real world as shown in the promotional manga when a Demon God literally plays UMX on a 3DS and you are told that they want you and him to experience the story from the same perspective. I will not claim the events line up perfectly, they do not, but you can argue that of any DB media and even the separate media of DBH itself. Trying to alienate Xenoverse or other DB media from Hereos, and accept other media you deem viable is arbitrary and double standards. And going the route of nothing at all scaling is even worse.
Bottom line, if your arguing to separate all continuities and disallow any scaling between them, nothing scales, and we get either desolated profiles with 75% of DBH being unusable due to continuity issues. Or a dozen bare bones, repetitive profiles of the same characters from different heroes continuities. If your arguing to separate some continuities and use others arbitrarily because you think they are more consistent, its still double standards and cherry picking as none line up well all the time. It is not perfect allowing all official DBH content to be used in the profiles, there are inconsistencies, but there always will be no matter what you do, and you would just be creating tons of non beneficial extra profiles, and likely leaving the existing ones a husk with no value, or having no way to incorporate the rest of the media due to the continuities being so similar thus not suited to getting there own profiles separately.
I will not support your recommendation on this.
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The following draft page seems good to add to me:
vsbattles.fandom.com
What is the current argument about?
Dominodalek/Sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
What is the current argument about?
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@Dominodalek Is trying to argue that we should separate all the Dragon ball Heroes media into many separate continuities, and stop scaling Hero's to other heroes titles, and other games and media like Xenoverse all together on the pretext of continuity issues. I am adamantly against this and wont support it, as I have articulated in other threads, and expanded upon above in my comments, and it has been agreed upon several times that this is not the route the site should take. Preferably if it is agreed upon yet again here, we will put a note up to stop repeating this argument about what scales to DBH every 6 months.The following draft page seems good to add to me:
Dominodalek/Sandbox
What is the current argument about?
I am fine if we want to go ahead and add the current page as it is.
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