Dragon Ball - Fusion/SSG/SSB Multiplier Upgrade

[Ednaxel2]

Vegito Upgrade​

Currently Post-RoSaT Gotenks is accepted as a 5,000x fusion amp:

Post-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks < Piccolo < Shin < Base Goku & Vegeta < SS2 Goku & Vegeta (100x Base) < Pre-RoSaT Base Gotenks < Pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks (50x Base) < Post-RoSaT Base Gotenks

A hypothetical fusion amp between Goku and potential unlocked Gohan should be even greater than this off of virtue of being a potara fusion which is greater than fusion dance, and because the two users here are both much stronger than Goten and Trunks, with fusion being base x base (it's implied in other instances that it's base + base times a dozen over, which also works).

Vegito is stated to be stronger than this hypothetical fusion outright due to the added rival boost he has. He should also be fully capable of going Super Saiyan 2 & 3, as even Gotenks, a lesser fusion, can go SS3 when neither Goten and Trunks can even go SS2, and because Goku himself can go SS3.

With this in mind:

• Ultimate Gohan: >5.265 MegaFoe (Physically; 4-B) | >21.06 MegaFoe (Kamehameha; 4-B) | >864 billion c
• Goku & Gohan fusion should be greater than Gotenks, with Vegito being a greater than this hypothetical fusion: >26.325 GigaFoe (Physically; 4-B) | >105.3 GigaFoe (Kamehameha; 4-B) | >4.32 quadrillion c
  • Super Saiyan Vegito: >1.31625 TeraFoe (Physically; 4-B) | >5.265 TeraFoe (Kamehameha; 4-B) | >216 quadrillion c
  • Super Saiyan 2 Vegito: >2.6325 TeraFoe (Physically; 4-B) | >10.53 TeraFoe (Kamehameha; 4-B+) | >432 quadrillion c
  • Super Saiyan 3 Vegito: >10.53 TeraFoe (Physically; 4-B+) | >42.12 TeraFoe (Kamehameha; 4-A) | >1.728 quintillion c

SSG/B Upgrade (Anime)​

Due to Vegito's multiplier being upgraded, this should also by extension upgrade SSG as it is an amp far greater than a hypothetical beginning of Super SS3 Vegito, and that multiplier would be over 2,000,000x (400 [SS3] x 5000 [fusion amp]). Blue is accepted as being 50x SSG as it is the Super Saiyan version of that as stated several times, which should make it a >100,000,000x amp on base.

This can get incredibly messy if this multiplier gets accepted speed value wise, so just for that the speed ratings will be handled in another thread (if this gets accepted).

Title Page Changes​

I tried doing this before but it got outdated I think? But anyways this should be easy, all Super characters page names should indicate which continuity they are in, since we index both the manga and anime. Meaning that for example Cabba should be "Cabba (Anime)" (even if he has no manga page, to not have any confusion). Additionally some DBS profiles have "DBS" in the page titles even though it's unnecessary, like Jiren, Goku Black and Grand Priest, so it should be removed for those characters, but should be kept for characters like Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

Some super character just don't have a manga or anime counterpart such as Moro and (some) ToP members in the anime? So they won't get any of these changes.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with this one.
Let the 4-B Z Manga nightmare finally come to an end

 

[Hasty12345]

Disagree Z isn’t allowed to leave 4-B

 

[Damage3245]

Post-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks < Piccolo

Although this is mentioned on Piccolo's profile, there isn't a scan or a reference for this. Would you be able to supply it, please?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Although this is mentioned on Piccolo's profile, there isn't a scan or a reference for this. Would you be able to supply it, please?

Super Buu gains Piccolo's outfit when Gotenks defuses, so Piccolo's the strongest person absorbed at that time.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I will say though, I don't see why we're putting Base Vegito over the hypothetical Ultimate form of Gokhan.
Super Vegito I get, but Base Vegito literally did nothing in the manga.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I will say though, I don't see why we're putting Base Vegito over the hypothetical Ultimate form of Gokhan.
Super Vegito I get, but Base Vegito literally did nothing in the manga.

They put base Vegito over Ultimate Gohan solely due to accepted multipliers of fusion. I don't see any base Vegito > Ultimate Gohkan in this

 

[Vietthai96]

They put base Vegito over Ultimate Gohan solely due to accepted multipliers of fusion. I don't see any base Vegito > Ultimate Gohkan in this

Goku & Gohan fusion should be greater than Gotenks, with Vegito being a greater than this hypothetical fusion

Actually the hypothetical fusion of Goku and Gohan didn't have a name iirc

 

[Shar122]

~~I disagree, this is a wank~~

I agree obviously

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Actually the hypothetical fusion of Goku and Gohan didn't have a name iirc

Regardless, this CRT is scaling Base Vegito above Ultimate Gohan, not the hypothetical fusion of Goku and Gohan in their ultimate form, based off what I'm assuming to be the accepted fusion multiplier

 

[Ednaxel2]

I will say though, I don't see why we're putting Base Vegito over the hypothetical Ultimate form of Gokhan.
Super Vegito I get, but Base Vegito literally did nothing in the manga.

Not the hypothetical ultimate form, just saying base Vegito > base Gokhan (not a real name obv just to simplify things)

Edit: I probably didn't realize what I was really saying here

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Not the hypothetical ultimate form, just saying base Vegito > base Gokhan (not a real name obv just to simplify things)

Do tell then why Base Gokhan is x5000 stronger than Ultimate Gohan? The Gotenks multiplier is applied over their base power, don't see why it wouldn't for Gokhan.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Do tell then why Base Gokhan is x5000 stronger than Ultimate Gohan? The Gotenks multiplier is applied over their base power, don't see why it wouldn't for Gokhan.

Potential Unlock is just Gohan's inner strength it's not a transformation like Super Saiyan so it can most definitely fuse with Goku's base

 

[Damage3245]

Something doesn't seem to be adding up about this.

As we know from early on in the Buu Arc, SSJ Goten can keep up with SSJ Gohan, and significantly pressure him, and SSJ Trunks (who is a little stronger than Goten) can not only make SSJ Vegeta visibly struggle with his attacks but also pressure him enough to make him involuntarily counter-attack. It stands to reason that if SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks are relative to SSJ Gohan and SSJ Vegeta, then the base forms of the former must be relative to the base forms of the latter.

Yet, we have this scaling chain:

Pre-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks <<< Post-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks < Piccolo < Shin < Base Goku & Vegeta

Furthermore, if Post-RoSaT Gotenks was at least fifty times stronger than Pre-RoSaT Gotenks, then that means his constituent parts, Goten and Trunks, must be several times stronger after training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

So they started off roughly relative to Gohan and Vegeta, and got several times stronger through training, yet they're still inferior to Piccolo who is inferior to Shin, who is inferior to base Vegeta?

 

[Maskofthedragon]

(Kamehameha; 4-A) | >1.728 quintillion c

That one discussion rule is in shambles

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It seems good

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Something doesn't seem to be adding up about this.

As we know from early on in the Buu Arc, SSJ Goten can keep up with SSJ Gohan, and significantly pressure him, and SSJ Trunks (who is a little stronger than Goten) can not only make SSJ Vegeta visibly struggle with his attacks but also pressure him enough to make him involuntarily counter-attack. It stands to reason that if SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks are relative to SSJ Gohan and SSJ Vegeta, then the base forms of the former must be relative to the base forms of the latter.

Yet, we have this scaling chain:

Pre-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks <<< Post-RoSaT Base Goten & Trunks < Piccolo < Shin < Base Goku & Vegeta

Furthermore, if Post-RoSaT Gotenks was at least fifty times stronger than Pre-RoSaT Gotenks, then that means his constituent parts, Goten and Trunks, must be several times stronger after training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

So they started off roughly relative to Gohan and Vegeta, and got several times stronger through training, yet they're still inferior to Piccolo who is inferior to Shin, who is inferior to base Vegeta?

Then SSJ Goten and Trunks don't seriously scale to the adult saiyans. They struggled together to fight 18. Goten fought a rusty Gohan, and Vegeta was probably holding back.

But what we know for absolute sure is that pre rosat gotenks was stated to be the strongest fighter they had, including ssj2 vegeta.

Yes, the boys got stronger in the rosat, but we clearly don't scale them above goku and vegeta after the rosat now do we?

That means that the boys in ssj don't seriously scale to the adults based off training sessions where one adult was rusty and both were most likely holding back.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Potential Unlock is just Gohan's inner strength it's not a transformation like Super Saiyan so it can most definitely fuse with Goku's base

Do recall this being a point of contention, but I wouldn't say that Ultimate Gohan counts as his base.

Gohan does power-up in the original manga "just like turning Super Saiyan" but doesn't need his hair to turn gold which is dimissed as just "showbiz."

 

[Ednaxel2]

Do recall this being a point of contention, but I wouldn't say that Ultimate Gohan counts as his base.

The links don't work, also Ultimate Gohan's awakening is directly compared to when he had his potential unlocked by Guru on Namek which was just a base amp

 

[Damage3245]

The links don't work, also Ultimate Gohan's awakening is directly compared to when he had his potential unlocked by Guru on Namek which was just a base amp

It's definitely something he has to activate though. Here is the link that I believe Eden was trying to post.

We see in Super that he loses the ability to "transform" into his Ultimate form, and has to train to regain it, so it is definitely not just a permanent base form enhancement. When fighting the new Androids in the Super Hero arc, he fights first as a Super Saiyan, then transforms to go up a level by fighting in his Ultimate form.

Same situation with Piccolo who also gets his inner potential drawn out of him, but he has to access it via a transformation which he can revert from.

 

[Omegabronic]

Potential Unlock is just Gohan's inner strength it's not a transformation like Super Saiyan so it can most definitely fuse with Goku's base

Didn't Super and Super Hero kind of retconed this? like... in both he literally goes from Super Saiyan to "Potential Unlock", and Piccolo's Potential unlock is equally treated as a transformation as well

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

goated Ednaxel moment

 

[Ednaxel2]

It's definitely something he has to activate though. Here is the link that I believe Eden was trying to post.

We see in Super that he loses the ability to "transform" into his Ultimate form, and has to train to regain it, so it is definitely not just a permanent base form enhancement. When fighting the new Androids in the Super Hero arc, he fights first as a Super Saiyan, then transforms to go up a level by fighting in his Ultimate form.

Same situation with Piccolo who also gets his inner potential drawn out of him, but he has to access it via a transformation which he can revert from.

Again it is just bringing out the power of him in his base form and was going to fuse with Goku while in that state. I would agree that he would need to activate it if he was in his regular base but in that moment his potential was already out

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I have mixed feelings about the 4A part, but Gotenks being a 5000x multiplier and that in turn bumping up the god multipliers is pretty rock solid. So netural for us Z getting out of 4B, but agree on everything else

 

[Golden_Void]

Ultimate is a transformation, but it isn't a set multiplier; it's literally a plot multiplier. Seen in DBSH when he goes from SSJ to Ultimate, or in DB Sparking Zero, you can't go Beast from SSJ, it's part of the Ultimate transformation path.

Which is why I wouldn't use Gohan in anything involving numbers because the authors literally just give him the power that's needed.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Ultimate is a transformation, but it isn't a set multiplier; it's literally a plot multiplier. Seen in DBSH when he goes from SSJ to Ultimate, or in DB Sparking Zero, you can't go Beast from SSJ, it's part of the Ultimate transformation path.

Which is why I wouldn't use Gohan in anything involving numbers because the authors literally just give him the power that's needed.

This has nothing to do with Ultimate's multiplier

 

[Bernkastelll]

Oh God I hate multipliers

I agree

 

[Golden_Void]

This has nothing to do with Ultimate's multiplier

It was in response to ultimate being a permanent base form thing.

 

[Ednaxel2]

It was in response to ultimate being a permanent base form thing.

Oh my bad

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Even if we did count Ultimate Gohan as his base, I really don't see why we'd compare the Gotenks multiplier to the hypothetical Gokhan one with it's gigantic power discrepancy between the fusees, this is most apparent with the Manga Fused Zamasu; when one part of the fusion is nowhere near the other in power, the difference in power between the stronger one's peak and the fusion isn't all that significant (Fused Zamasu is only about x10 stronger than Rosé and half his body was eviscerated by a Base Vegito's ki blast)

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Even if we did count Ultimate Gohan as his base, I really don't see why we'd compare the Gotenks multiplier to the hypothetical Gokhan one with it's gigantic power discrepancy between the fusees, this is most apparent with the Manga Fused Zamasu; when one part of the fusion is nowhere near the other in power, the difference in power between the stronger one's peak and the fusion isn't all that significant (Fused Zamasu is only about x10 stronger than Rosé and half his body was eviscerated by a Base Vegito's ki blast)

The gap between SSJ3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan is nowhere near as big as SSR Goku Black and Zamasu.

 

[Omegabronic]

The gap between SSJ3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan is nowhere near as big as SSR Goku Black and Zamasu.

Ultimate Gohan pretty much stomped Super Buu with no dificulty whatsoever

Goku is utterly scared to even fight Super Buu at all and implied he only easily kill him even with Vegeta's help

The gap is pretty big

 

[Spinoirr]

Disagree, don't want to make my crossover au even more fast (I am literally running out of numbers to list how fast they are)

At least 1.08416 unvigintillion c, likely far higher is already insane enough as is

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Ultimate Gohan pretty much stomped Super Buu with no dificulty whatsoever

Goku is utterly scared to even fight Super Buu at all and implied he only easily kill him even with Vegeta's help

The gap is pretty big

Zamasu is maybe SSJ2 level while SSR Goku Black was consistently stronger than SSBs.

You have to prove the gap between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Goku is like nearly an entire god form multiplier in difference.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

SSJ3 Goku is accepted as being like, more than x10 weaker than base Gotenks, so it's pretty close I'd say.

Even if that isn't around the Zamasu/Goku Black gap, it's certainly nowhere near the literal equal power distribution that Gotenks is.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

No, the gaps aren't close. And fusion zamasu is irrelevant here, there was a lot more going on there

The idea that a goku and Gohan fusion would only be like 10x stronger them them both is ridiculous.

 

[Omegabronic]

Zamasu is maybe SSJ2 level while SSR Goku Black was consistently stronger than SSBs.

Iirc, wasn't Zamasu fighting SSR Trunks at some point, who was contending with Rose Black?

You have to prove the gap between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Goku is like nearly an entire god form multiplier in difference.

Ok but why? What is the argument again that needs this specifically?

 

[Omegabronic]

No, the gaps aren't close. And fusion zamasu is irrelevant here.

The idea that a goku and Gohan fusion would only be like 10x stronger them them both is ridiculous.

Ok but why? Saying something is ridiculous is not a good evidence

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Iirc, wasn't Zamasu fighting SSR Trunks at some point, who was contending with Rose Black?


Ok but why? What is the argument again that needs this specifically?

No. That never happened. The one time SSR Trunks fought Zamasu he dealt with him in a few ki blasts.

You need to prove that those gaps in power are the same to make the arguement fusion zamasu is relevant here.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Ok but why? Saying something is ridiculous is not a good evidence

Because the gaps in power aren't the same, and fusion zamasu had a shit ton of other things going on, it wasn't a standard potara fusion.

It's not comparable. We have no reason to assume a potara fusion between goku and Gohan would only be like 10x stronger. If it was, it wouldn't be used as a way to hype up Vegito by saying he's stronger than Gohkan