Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

[denisnic55]

This is just an anti-feat against like 4 solid feats of low-2c based on Zamasu and even further to Jiren scaling. Even if you downgrade, there is more than enough evidence for low 2-c.

 

[omegabronic]

But I a strongly disagree with downgrading the Tier 2 cast of DBS Anime for a multitude of reasons whether it be the fact that RoSaT and its space-time continuum + the observable universe would inherently be destroyed by a GoD.

with the rosat being accepted as not being inside the universe anymore, is there really any proof that the rosat would be even affected?

And that they should upscale from Infinite Zamasu who eventually did become one with the universe and was merging on a spacio temporal level.

zamasu scaling will stay the same for now, this would only affect God of destruction level)not being this weird hal 2-C it is right now) an the angels and zeno(would become low 2-C instead of 2-C)

As for other things brought up such as the part about "4-D cosmic structures less than universal being High 3-A feats based on the existence of an uncountable infinite number of shots" we used to have that be on tiering system but removed it due to controversies. But if people want to add something like that back, sounds like it's reserved for a different discussion and I doubt some staff will agree. But destroying one of those And a universe at the same time with a single blast would be at least Low 2-C.

well, there would need to be proof of the rosat being affected in the first place

 

[omegabronic]

This is just an anti-feat against like 4 solid feats of low-2c based on Zamasu and even further to Jiren scaling. Even if you downgrade, there is more than enough evidence for low 2-c.

zamasu scaling will stay the same for now, this would only affect God of destruction level)not being this weird hal 2-C it is right now) an the angels and zeno(would become low 2-C instead of 2-C)

just to remind people that this is not an tier downgrade, but a cosmology downgrade that would affect the value said tier, half 2-C and 2-C is what god of destruction and angel level characters are right now because of the beerus and champa feat, and now that feat becomes 3-A, they all scale or upscale from baseline low 2-C

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah, scaling thread will be done later on based off this thread and recent tier 2 revision thread which has affected all tier 2 characters of dragonball.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

My vote hasn't changed from before, especially with the point brought up about how the Super Dragon Balls can cross the distance between universes with nothing but flight.

it was already refuted above, SS can leave a dimension that is only accessible with teleportation.

 

[Reiner04]

it was already refuted above, SS can leave a dimension that is only accessible with teleportation.

When it was ever happened in the entire thread? If you're talking about the paragraph you wrote about champa cube then sorry, it doesn't.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

When it was ever happened in the entire thread? If you're talking about the paragraph you wrote about champa cube then sorry, it doesn't.

just look at all my comments, just above, you will notice that Super Shenron dared through the world of emptiness as if it were nothing, restoring all Universes at once and spreading throughout universes.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Kind of normal for this to happen, Super Shenron left the world of emptiness like nothing, why would that prevent the super dragon balls from doing the same thing?

.

 

[Reiner04]

just look at all my comments, just above, you will notice that Super Shenron dared through the world of emptiness as if it were nothing, restoring all Universes at once and spreading throughout universes.

I don’t see how Super Shenron’s Wish Granting capabilities correlate to the SDBs moving between universes through what appeared to be simple flight.

I think it has already been answered. Super shenron =/= SDBs. SDBs are just way to summon super shenron. Also him granting wish has nothing to do with SDBs scattering across the universes with what has been shown to be simple flight.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think it has already been answered. Super shenron =/= SDBs. SDBs are just way to summon super shenron. Also him granting wish has nothing to do with SDBs scattering across the universes with what has been shown to be simple flight.

bro, when are you going to stop refuting yourself? The evidence is in your hands, it's not a physical trip, stop it, my God, a physical flight is impossible, only possible with a cube, the super spheres can cross dimensions that are only accessible with teleportation.

 

[AKUTO123]

İ think that is a staff discussion but i dont see any staff comment. Members please dont comment because that comment since same at first discussion

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also why are people using Super Dragon Balls to argue against cosmology? It just means they can fly similarly to the Angels in which their flight has dimensional travel, not a counter argument against the universes being different bodies of spaces as Executor pointed out.

 

[omegabronic]

Also why are people using Super Dragon Balls to argue against cosmology? It just means they can fly similarly to the Angels in which their flight has dimensional travel, not a counter argument against the universes being different bodies of spaces as Executor pointed out.

if it was dimensional travel, why does it take time and why does whis specifies his speed as being an factor?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

"Taking time" is not a counter argument against Dimensional Travel either, it's a counter argument against Infinite/Immeasurable speed yes but not against dimensional travel.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Also why are people using Super Dragon Balls to argue against cosmology? It just means they can fly similarly to the Angels in which their flight has dimensional travel, not a counter argument against the universes being different bodies of spaces as Executor pointed out.

exactly, I showed evidence of this, they could not disprove it, there is also a dimension separating the Universes, as well as the fact that the super spheres traverse the world of emptiness.

 

[omegabronic]

"Taking time" is not a counter argument against Dimensional Travel either, it's a counter argument against Infinite/Immeasurable speed yes but not against dimensional travel.

i mean, it is implying that there is a distance to go by

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

i mean, it is implying that there is a distance to go by

Yes, Dimensional Travel users still have distance to travel to just finite distance and possibly involving more than one spatial dimension.

Also this is my last post for now as I have another 8 our shift to be working first.

 

[omegabronic]

Yes, Dimensional Travel users still have distance to travel to just finite distance and possibly involving more than one spatial dimension.

the thing is, the method in which they are seem to travel is the same they use to go between universes is the same they are saw using to go to in universe locations

also understandable, have a nice shift

 

[Planck69]

Do we even have any reason to assume they use Dimensional Travel?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Do we even have any reason to assume they use Dimensional Travel?

yes, there is evidence of them traveling to other planes, like the world of the Kaioshins that is separated from the mortal Universe, and it is mentioned that Whis can go to the future, there is also evidence that the dragon balls can traverse dimensions, like the world of emptiness, SS came out of there like nothing, moreover they are able to verify dimensions (like room of time with their eyes, seen seen during the training of Merus and Whis, in addition to going to the possible dimension that is outside the twelve Universes, Zeno's palace) let me know if you need more.

 

[Antvasima]

Please tag DB supporters, half of the admins are against the verse, I noticed that some are nauseous about the verse they disagree with, would it be possible to call out some who really understand about the verse? Thank you very much.

@SSJRyu1 @The_real_cal_howard @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian @Zenkaibattery1 @Antoniofer @EMagoIorSouI @KingEzran @GojiBoyForever @Gilad_Hyperstar @Spinoirr @FluffyCreatureZ @Eseseso @Flashlight237

 

[Antvasima]

Also, why should we scale the Dragon Ball Super anime from a statement in the manga, even though they otherwise have somewhat different events and statistics?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Uhhh what are the arguments again? I didn't really follow the thread

Besides, summary will also help the staff to evaluate this better

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The only way the cosmology can get downgraded is if the RoSaT is outside of the timeline entirely which there’s no proof of I haven’t seen anyone talk about this because if the RoSaT is inside the timeline it means a space time can encompass a space time defaulting the universes back to Low 2-C can anyone address this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also, why should we scale the Dragon Ball Super anime from a statement in the manga, even though they otherwise have somewhat different events and statistics?

They both are direct continuation of the canon version of Dragon Ball Z which each version made from the notes Toriyama put as outlines for Super

It wouldn't make sense for the cosmologies to be different since both are continuation of manga Z, unlike with Toei Z

 

[Antvasima]

I can agree that not every statement from the various continuities should apply to other versions of Dragon Ball regarding the cosmology, though there are extremely consistent guidebook statements that apply to all versions of Dragon Ball such as the Universe having spatial temporal barriers. Such as the recent manga having a new statement about a RoSaT, don't think that should retcon some clear facts about Toei or DBS Anime.

But I a strongly disagree with downgrading the Tier 2 cast of DBS Anime for a multitude of reasons whether it be the fact that RoSaT and its space-time continuum + the observable universe would inherently be destroyed by a GoD. And that they should upscale from Infinite Zamasu who eventually did become one with the universe and was merging on a spacio temporal level.

As for other things brought up such as the part about "4-D cosmic structures less than universal being High 3-A feats based on the existence of an uncountable infinite number of shots" we used to have that be on tiering system but removed it due to controversies. But if people want to add something like that back, sounds like it's reserved for a different discussion and I doubt some staff will agree. But destroying one of those And a universe at the same time with a single blast would be at least Low 2-C.

Also why are people using Super Dragon Balls to argue against cosmology? It just means they can fly similarly to the Angels in which their flight has dimensional travel, not a counter argument against the universes being different bodies of spaces as Executor pointed out.

This seems to make sense to me.

Do we even have any reason to assume they use Dimensional Travel?

Well, they can warp reality almost any way they want on an at least cosmic scale, so it would be strange if they cannot use it.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

They both are direct continuation of the canon version of Dragon Ball Z which each version made from the notes Toriyama put as outlines for Super

It wouldn't make sense for the cosmologies to be different since both are continuation of manga Z, unlike with Toei Z

Well the cosmologies for toei Z have no differences from the manga and anime Z cosmoslogies just statements of the Realms being separated spatiotemporally if we use that logic

 

[Antvasima]

They both are direct continuation of the canon version of Dragon Ball Z which each version made from the notes Toriyama put as outlines for Super

It wouldn't make sense for the cosmologies to be different since both are continuation of manga Z, unlike with Toei Z

Okay, but then why do the different versions of the same characters in the DBS manga and anime have different statistics?

 

[Aachintya31]

Well, they can warp reality almost any way they want on an at least cosmic scale, so it would be strange if they cannot use it.

I don't know why this was brought up. They don't have reality warping or any such technique giving them dimensional travel Why are we now suddenly assuming basic flight is some sort of dimensional travel or warp without evidence.

yes, there is evidence of them traveling to other planes, like the world of the Kaioshins that is separated from the mortal Universe, and it is mentioned that Whis can go to the future, there is also evidence that the dragon balls can traverse dimensions, like the world of emptiness, SS came out of there like nothing, moreover they are able to verify dimensions (like room of time with their eyes, seen seen during the training of Merus and Whis, in addition to going to the possible dimension that is outside the twelve Universes, Zeno's palace) let me know if you need more.

As I noted in the OP. Kaioshin realmns and mortal universe have same space-time, this point goes moot. And other point you are mentioning is cosmic awareness.

Also, why should we scale the Dragon Ball Super anime from a statement in the manga, even though they otherwise have somewhat different events and statistics?

Cosmologies are considered same up until now as I have mentioned in OP. Even some of upgrade threads have been rejected before.

Well Dragon ball follows a composite cosmology for a long time. The cosmology is considered same here by the staff Also the evidence of ROSAT for anime is weak in itself. This is used as a supplementary evidence for an information which is unclear and matters greatly.

 

[Vietthai96]

Okay, but then why do the different versions of the same characters in the DBS manga and anime have different statistics?

It is because manga have different feats and statements compare to anime, thus different ratings

Edit: shit, forgot to ask for permission

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Okay, but then why do the different versions of the same characters in the DBS manga and anime have different statistics?

Because the feats from the manga are different than those of the anime. It's also to remain consistent with the world that was established in Z, as both are direct continuations of Z

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Because the feats from the manga are different than those of the anime. It's also to remain consistent with the world that was established in Z, as both are direct continuations of Z

actually the manga is an adaptation of the anime super and not an adaptation of Z

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

actually the manga is an adaptation of the anime and

Actually, that's not true. Both were made from Toriyama's notes for Dragon Ball Super and told Toei and Toyataro to each make it separately, which is why they're different yet still follows the same notes given to them

not an adaptation of Z

Of course it's not. It's a continuation, meaning a sequel to Z, not an adaptation of Z

 

[omegabronic]

The only way the cosmology can get downgraded is if the RoSaT is outside of the timeline entirely which there’s no proof of I haven’t seen anyone talk about this because if the RoSaT is inside the timeline it means a space time can encompass a space time defaulting the universes back to Low 2-C can anyone address this?

this was addressed in the last thread, there is no proof or evidence that it is inside the timeline, so we don't consider it to be

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Working off of Toriyama's notes means very little for their connection to each other, considering the notes are, evidently, vague, simple, and straightforward outlines of the primary plot points, especially when considering the fact that Toei and Toyotaro took their months in radically different directions.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Actually, that's not true. Both were made from Toriyama's notes for Dragon Ball Super and told Toei and Toyataro to each make it separately, which is why they're different yet still follows the same notes given to them

Of course it's not. It's a continuation, meaning a sequel to Z, not an adaptation of Z

The anime is being adapted into a companion manga by Toriyama alongside artist Toyotarō, the author behind the official adaptation of the Resurrection "F" manga. It began serialization in the August 2015 issue of V Salto, which was released on June 20.

 

[omegabronic]

Working off of Toriyama's notes means very little for their connection to each other, considering the notes are, evidently, vague, simple, and straightforward outlines of the primary plot points, especially when considering the fact that Toei and Toyotaro took their months in radically different directions.

think of it like this, both are equally canon to z, meaning that anything that they ad cosmology wise retroactively applies to z, and since z is canon to both, then it applies to both

 

[Eseseso]

OP seems good to me.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

"The plot created by Toriyama-sensei is a starting point for both anime and manga, but then we work independently from each other. The possibilities of anime and manga are different, so each one tries to adapt the scenario in the best possible way. So there is almost no direct connection between the anime and the manga".

 

[omegabronic]

"The plot created by Toriyama-sensei is a starting point for both anime and manga, but then we work independently from each other. The possibilities of anime and manga are different, so each one tries to adapt the scenario in the best possible way. So there is almost no direct connection between the anime and the manga".

"almost no conection" meaning that there is one