Nullflowerblush
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The Discussion Rules prohibit attempting to revise the verse cosmology using outdated information. The Discussion Rules do not prohibit attempting to revise the mechanics of the Angels's Warp ability.
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Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision
- Thread starter Aachintya31
- Start date
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- dragon ball
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What? The mention of the warp ability isn’t just about changing in its mechanics, it’s to argue it makes the universe the same space which is.. changing the cosmology. There’s nothing new being argued in regards to it.
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Let the staff decide. Only thing that was stopping DB got downgraded regardless of several contradiction, is that U7 contains RoSaT (the only thing Dragonball had) After tier 2 revision. We know now that this assumption was wrong, so contradiction was right. And what my waifu @Nullflowerblush said above. Leave the things to staff now. We don't have to make it 8 pages.
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The only point that could’ve been taken as a contradiction but was reconciled with the RoSaT cited on Zeno’s page is them being part of the same timeline, not all being in the literal same space which is a rejected argument against the discussion rule. U7 on its own is already accepted as being made of multiple universal bodies separated by space, despite being the same space-time.
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Your input would also be appreciated here, @DarkDragonMedeus .
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The RoSaT is stated to be a subspace meaning a space inside a space even if not within the universe this would be inside the timeline so unless there’s proof of it being it’s own timeline or time ring that’s outside of the timeline it shouldnt be applied https://imgur.io/a/WBlQubo#YVAm6M4
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Because frieza stated that the RoSaT that he was in was in a different dimension so it’s not inside the macrocosm but the argument is that since it’s not the macrocosm there’s no proof it’s affected by RoSaT and the argument is under the assumption that the RoSaT is not only not linked to the macrocosm but not in the entire timeline at all which hasn’t been proven or implied
my counter argument is that the RoSaT is stated to be a subspace which means it’s a space inside of a space meaning that the RoSaT is encompassed by another space (The timeline)
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we went over this, this part is talking about the areas of the living universe, the multiverse was not a thing during that time, so it is talking about it being part of the living universe, which as stated in the other threads was contradicted
mostly in the op, here:
also the one counter above
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against my arguments is the following, there is a dimension that separates the Universes, staying between them, you need a cube to go to another universe, it is impossible to travel without a cube (if it is not a angel )
Every time an angel crosses the Universe there is a distortion in space-time, as shown in the argument above, and it is not just decoration, because it is shown that angels can go to the future and go back, with only her ability, shown just above, and about the room of time it only has different time, but it is on the same planet, if she stayed outside the Universe would fall into another dimension, as shown in the movie Brolly, where he tears space-time and there is a dimension that is outside of reality.
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I’m not saying it’s apart of the universe I’m saying it’s a subspace within the timeline the RoSaT is a space within a space and even if it’s not in the macrocosm (not my argument so idk why you keep bringing it up) it can be referring to the timeline and that’s not contradicted saying that’s it’s not inside the timeline and it is it’s own timeline is head canon and there’s no evidence to back that up if there’s scans or statements of the RoSaT being its own timeline and not being Inside the timeline at all like is being claimed I’ll concede
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and i am saying that the guide is saying that the guide is talking about the living universe and its subsection, therefore it is saying that the rosat is a part of the living universe as a subspace, will not answer this further and will wait for staff to evaluate since this is a staff thread, you should do the same to avoid back and forth
Nullflowerblush
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Before anything, I'd like to point out that the Super Dragon Balls scatter across the two universes.
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The Universe and The World Beyond section but sure we can wait for staff
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Well Super Shenron can grant any wish and pretty much do anything so that doesn’t mean anything
Nullflowerblush
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Super Shenron grants wishes. The Dragon Ball themselves are incapable of restoring entire universes from erasure. The Dragon Ball themselves are giant crystal balls, and the Namekian Dragon Balls what were chipped off of the original scatter in a very non-transcending space-timey wimey manner.
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I don’t see how Super Shenron’s Wish Granting capabilities correlate to the SDBs moving between universes through what appeared to be simple flight.
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Well he has the ability to change sizes so idk but it did seem like the sdb’s just went off to the distance so I see your point but usually special ways of transportation are needed like what Luffy has sent
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Kind of normal for this to happen, Super Shenron left the world of emptiness like nothing, why would that prevent the super dragon balls from doing the same thing?
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Please tag DB supporters, half of the admins are against the verse, I noticed that some are nauseous about the verse they disagree with, would it be possible to call out some who really understand about the verse? Thank you very much.
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I love dragon ball with all my heart. It is, unironically, my favorite shonen of all time, as well as my favorite manga series. I could give entire essays and thesis about numerous aspects from the series, from the philosophies, to the humanity of certain characters, to the verse mechanics and portrayal of martial arts, to its comedy, to its endurance throughout the ages, and many more.
Why do I preface this? Because while I love the serie to death and back, and hold it dear to my heart; if it turns out it doesn't conform to the standards of the site for a certain tier, then it needs to be downgraded, regardless of how much we love it or not.
The staff, whether we like it or not, are the ultimate authority regarding the sites standards. If after every piece of information given, it is deemed that Dragon Ball does not conform to a consistent tier 2 cosmology by the sites standards, it is what it is. It has nothing to do with the staff hating them (though I do personally suspect some would just love downgrading it out of sheer spite, but that's completely irrelevant).
Even supporters of the series have agreed with this. So please, do not insult people's ability to evaluate the verse just because you disagree with their conclusion.
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it doesn’t have enough evidence imo even if the RoSaT isn’t inside of Universe 7 it would still be a 2-C multiverse but the argument is that the RoSaT is outside of the timeline and there’s no evidence of that and it’s been stated to be a subspace so I disagree with this statement that’s not enough evidence for it to be a 2-C multiverse
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I find it strange that it doesn’t seem like anyone knows the reasoning for the downgrade and just go yup I agree like is there any proof the RoSaT is outside of the timeline? I wish more people would give more input on that
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you gave your point, please don't flood a staff thread
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I can agree that not every statement from the various continuities should apply to other versions of Dragon Ball regarding the cosmology, though there are extremely consistent guidebook statements that apply to all versions of Dragon Ball such as the Universe having spatial temporal barriers. Such as the recent manga having a new statement about a RoSaT, don't think that should retcon some clear facts about Toei or DBS Anime.
But I a strongly disagree with downgrading the Tier 2 cast of DBS Anime for a multitude of reasons whether it be the fact that RoSaT and its space-time continuum + the observable universe would inherently be destroyed by a GoD. And that they should upscale from Infinite Zamasu who eventually did become one with the universe and was merging on a spacio temporal level.
As for other things brought up such as the part about "4-D cosmic structures less than universal being High 3-A feats based on the existence of an uncountable infinite number of shots" we used to have that be on tiering system but removed it due to controversies. But if people want to add something like that back, sounds like it's reserved for a different discussion and I doubt some staff will agree. But destroying one of those And a universe at the same time with a single blast would be at least Low 2-C.
But I a strongly disagree with downgrading the Tier 2 cast of DBS Anime for a multitude of reasons whether it be the fact that RoSaT and its space-time continuum + the observable universe would inherently be destroyed by a GoD. And that they should upscale from Infinite Zamasu who eventually did become one with the universe and was merging on a spacio temporal level.
As for other things brought up such as the part about "4-D cosmic structures less than universal being High 3-A feats based on the existence of an uncountable infinite number of shots" we used to have that be on tiering system but removed it due to controversies. But if people want to add something like that back, sounds like it's reserved for a different discussion and I doubt some staff will agree. But destroying one of those And a universe at the same time with a single blast would be at least Low 2-C.
Nullflowerblush
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Wasn't that notion disagreed upon? By staff? Destroying the universe and the Room of Spirit and Time simultaneously was argued as Low 2-C last year, and the idea was countered by claims that explicit proof of the Room's destruction was required to apply that logic.
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Oh damn, I forgot about this point entirely. SDBs as well scatters across all universes through simple flight or 3 dimensional movement.
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I believe it's worth noting that despite whatever the manga says, the Anime even actually does seem internally consistent with itself and the old statements on that (the RoSaT likely being part of the universe, and absolutely part of the timeline).
Because, the fact that the anime has Vegeta land back in U7 after destroying it alone should be a strong indication that the RoSAT isn't for some reason an outright different timeline as being assumed by the OP here (even taking the manga into account, outside of U7=/=outside of the entire timeline), because we have an actual direct canon reference point in the form of Zeno erasing the Future Timeline, which doesn't drop him into the main timeline like destroying the RoSaT did to Vegeta and leaves him stuck in nothingness, even despite being a parallel branched timeline from it.
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The point of vegeta landing on earth, buu landing on earth is moot for the fact that RoSaT is not in the universe in the first place. One can simply question that why vegeta/buu/trunks not landed on any other planet but on earth? Why they not landed on any other universe but on U7? Why they not landed on after life but in living universe? All this doesn't makes sense until we say that it's just plot demand. This thing doesn't hold much weight after recent manga chapter.
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Ok, but the point wasn't even that it proves the RoSaT is part of the universe, but still part of the timeline as a whole (as seen in the differences to Zeno destroying an actual different timeline). The manga only implies it isn't part of the universe, that doesn't contradict it being part of the entire timeline. There's no reason to try and handwave canon evidence and contrasts when it does't even contradict the new information in the first place.
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I don't really see, How zeno relates to anything like proving RoSaT is a part of the timeline? And no, vegeta/buu/gotenks landing on earth wouldn't prove anything for the fact it doesn't prove RoSaT is a part of the earth, forget about earth, not even part of the universe. So this point is entirely moot.
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Because when Zeno destroys an entirely different timeline, he doesn't just land somewhere in the main timeline like Vegeta did by destroying the RoSaT. There is a clear contrast demonstrated here between actual different timelines and the RoSaT.
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There is something called established plot, it has been established regarding for RoSaT that destroying it would lead you to earth possibly because of it's connection through kami's room or simply/most likely plot but this point already have so many questions on it already to be used for anything.
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@Reiner Dude, it's nothing to do with it being part of Earth or the universe, it's the simple fact Vegeta ends up back anywhere in the main timeline at all instead of stuck in limbo. The fact is that when Zeno destroys a mere parallel branched timeline, even that doesn't land him into a different timeline, thus indicating that the RoSaT is still part of the entire timeline (which again, isn't contradicted by the manga) for that to have happened.
And no, destroying the doorway (which happens as Vegeta blows it up from the inside, you literally see his blue energy's explosion nuke the entrance while he's standing away from it, inside the RoSAT) cuts off any connection it has to Earth.
And no, destroying the doorway (which happens as Vegeta blows it up from the inside, you literally see his blue energy's explosion nuke the entrance while he's standing away from it, inside the RoSAT) cuts off any connection it has to Earth.
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Yeah, likewise.
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