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Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing

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Nothing about the scans proves that time/space is conceptual in general, Daishinkhan could get Type 3 for creating space and time in the WoV though, pending the validity of the statements about it lacking the concepts.
That just sounds like pocket reality creation. Also, I’m sure there are statements that contradicts that he created space-time there, unless there are direct statements of him creating sub-spacetimes.
 
You could probably give the Grand Priest that since he gave the concept that the World of Void lacked to it, especially shown in how the sky changed in color after 24 minutes passed without him actively doing anything to cause that color change in the moment
So you agree with this?
 
That just sounds like pocket reality creation. Also, I’m sure there are statements that contradicts that he created space-time there.
It should be type 2 considering the GP can affect this on a wider area then type 3. He’s affected a space-time.
3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Type 3 is specifically for concepts that do not affect all of reality and only do for a limited amount of things and/or just applied in a limited area. GP added the concepts only in a limited area (the arena), so it'd be Type 3.
 
...I'm sorry but how is adding time to a void that lacks a concept of it Pocket Reality Creation? The World of Void isn't a pocket reality made by the Grand Priest or anything
Well, I’m quite unsure if the Null Realm really is treated as an actual void. But if that’s the case, sure it would qualify. And I was talking about Grand Priest creating a space-time realm within the World of Void, as such users here claimed.
 
I didn't agree with "Time = Type 2 concept by default", I agreed with GP having Type 3 concept hax for adding the concept of space-time in a place lacking those, very different.

You could probably give the Grand Priest that since he gave the concept that the World of Void lacked to it, especially shown in how the sky changed in color after 24 minutes passed without him actively doing anything to cause that color change in the moment
I have doubts about this tbh.
Yeah none of this remotely explains time being a normal concept in DB.
What do you think of this?
 
3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Type 3 is specifically for concepts that do not affect all of reality and only do for a limited amount of things and/or just applied in a limited area. GP added the concepts only in a limited area (the arena), so it'd be Type 3.
Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.


The area of influence would just be the WoV a place dimensionally separated from the cosmology as we know it. Type 2 doesn’t need a universal scope according to DT.
 
What i'm really explaining is that time and space are both concepts that shape all reality, that without them there is no space-time
"without space-time there isn't space nor time"
yeah......exactly what logic would entail, again, no proof of actual conceptual stuff for time and space

the Daishinkan placed the concept of space and time in the world of the void, in a way Dragon Ball works with time and space being a literal concept
that Daishinkan example has absolutely no proof for time and space themselves being concepts, only that concepts that rule them exist, which is kind of obvious for most, if not all, fiction

Yes, time shapes everything real
.....you do know that nothing you showed says that time shapes everything in DB right? the Whis quote only ever talks about super basic level time travel rules, that's it, no "shapes all of reality" or anything like that

Dude, stop disagreeing because you want to and start reading things, it's like you haven't even seen the images and you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing (in fact it's in the Op itself, just read it, man)
that's the point, i read those things, hence why i said what i said, you not accepting me disagreeing because i can see that the evidence is insufficient is not a good argument against said insufficiency

What the **** are you talking about?
captain-america-language.gif


It is said and asserted twice that the locals have no concept of space-time, just read it, it seems like you have some difficulty understanding things.
yeah, they don't have the concept of time and space..........how do them not having the fundamental forces that shape time and space somehow prove that time and space are fundamental forces themselves?

I'll make things easier so you can read




again, not having the concept of a thing doesn't mean that said thing is a concept in of itself, no idea why you think that it would mean that
 
Actually no I’m the context of dragon ball you wouldn’t. If you change the past it just creates a new future not altering a previous one. The only people who have free range over time are gods.
you do affect the future, hence why another timeline is created with said changes, this IS how it works in Dragon Ball, still just very, VERY basic time travel rules

I mean if he added time where it conceptually was not, then that version of time must be conceptual on some level.
no, not at all, he just introduced a concept which created time, this is how concepts work
 
The area of influence would just be the WoV a place dimensionally separated from the cosmology as we know it. Type 2 doesn’t need a universal scope according to DT.
DT's opinion isn't absolute, y'all are pulling again this argument from authority that you used with Ultima already.

The description of Type 3 is pretty clear and fitting in this case, GP didn't affect a whole universe or something here.

Not to mention that is from 2 years ago lmao.
 
DT's opinion isn't absolute, y'all are pulling again this argument from authority that you used with Ultima already.

The description of Type 3 is pretty clear and fitting in this case, GP didn't affect a whole universe or something here.

Not to mention that is from 2 years ago lmao.
I'm pretty sure that post is valid (it's still does fall with the standards) however it's being misinterpreted (like it's being done here, which yeah I'd be type 3 if this is a concept)
 
Nothing about the scans proves that time/space is conceptual in general, Daishinkhan could get Type 3 for creating space and time in the WoV though, pending the validity of the statements about it lacking the concepts.
Agree with this at best. OP hasn’t really explained why it should be type 2. Time and space already inherently govern everything. So extra-ordinary evidence than that will be needed.
 
DT's opinion isn't absolute, y'all are pulling again this argument from authority that you used with Ultima already.

The description of Type 3 is pretty clear and fitting in this case, GP didn't affect a whole universe or something here.

Not to mention that is from 2 years ago lmao.
I’m not saying their opinion is absolute but it should hold weight considering they’re very knowledgeable. And considering the page for CM doesn’t seem to have been altered in god knows how long I doubt the age of the comment matters.

The WoV at least needs to be bigger then the universe and the nuetral spaces between them. Considering they weren’t suitable for ToP.
 
you do affect the future, hence why another timeline is created with said changes, this IS how it works in Dragon Ball, still just very, VERY basic time travel rules
If you’re creating a new future every time you go to the past you’re not really changing anything.
no, not at all, he just introduced a concept which created time, this is how concepts work
So then it’s conceptual hax
 
Nothing here proves time and space are inherently concepts whatsoever.

If it's already agreed that the World of Void lacks a concept of time then Grand Priest can have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for adding it. But only him.

Also, no you don't need to have universal range for Type 2/1 concept manipulation, DT is right about that. The concept itself is what has to prove to be of that scope.
 
Nothing here proves time and space are inherently concepts whatsoever.

If it's already agreed that the World of Void lacks a concept of time then Grand Priest can have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for adding it. But only him.

Also, no you don't need to have universal range for Type 2/1 concept manipulation, DT is right about that. The concept itself is what has to prove to be of that scope.
Yes, we are told twice that there is no concept of space-time, we are told that the Daishinkan changes everything.
 
Ins't Type 3 literally about small scale?
Yes, local scale concepts or concepts tied to specific objects. The scale at which the feat of manipulation is performed doesn't have anything to do with that.

A character wielding the Form of Cat to turn a group of opponents into cats doesn't invalidate the fact that it's a Type 1 concept being manipulated, it just means he has Tens of Meters range with it.

And that aside, I'm fairly sure it's a simpler assumption that he's affecting the World of Void wholesale given the way most lesser characters can do so in this arc, rather than specifically applying it to the arena or the fighters, but that's just me.
 
Well, I’m quite unsure if the Null Realm really is treated as an actual void. But if that’s the case, sure it would qualify. And I was talking about Grand Priest creating a space-time realm within the World of Void, as such users here claimed.
Alright, well to head off that concern, that's not what's happening. He's simply giving this void that has no concept of time an actual concept of time, as shown by it being visibly affected by the passage of time throughout the Tournament of Power
 
Yes, local scale concepts or concepts tied to specific objects. The scale at which the feat of manipulation is performed doesn't have anything to do with that.

A character wielding the Form of Cat to turn a group of opponents into cats doesn't invalidate the fact that it's a Type 1 concept being manipulated, it just means he has Tens of Meters range with it.

And that aside, I'm fairly sure it's a simpler assumption that he's affecting the World of Void wholesale given the way most lesser characters can do so in this arc, rather than specifically applying it to the arena or the fighters, but that's just me.
If that's the case, that's fine. What Type Concept would the Grand Priest be manipulating here, then?
 
Type 2 by my understanding, since time isn't a local object at all but we dont have enough information to assume its an independent concept. And it has to be made clear that this applies solely to him applying said concept of time to a realm, assuming this is accepted.

I really don't want to start seeing "GP conceptually destroys" after this.
 
Type 2 by my understanding, since time isn't a local object at all but we dont have enough information to assume its an independent concept. And it has to be made clear that this applies solely to him applying said concept of time to a realm, assuming this is accepted.

I really don't want to start seeing "GP conceptually destroys" after this.
I'll fix it to be a type 2 concept
 
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