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That just sounds like pocket reality creation. Also, I’m sure there are statements that contradicts that he created space-time there, unless there are direct statements of him creating sub-spacetimes.
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Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing
- Thread starter LuffyRuffy46307
- Start date
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It should be type 2 considering the GP can affect this on a wider area then type 3. He’s affected a space-time.
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...I'm sorry but how is adding time to a void that lacks a concept of it Pocket Reality Creation? The World of Void isn't a pocket reality made by the Grand Priest or anything
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what
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The WoV existed before the ToP so it can’t be a pocket dimension.
- 12,579
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- Thread starter
- #46
So you agree with this?
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3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.
Type 3 is specifically for concepts that do not affect all of reality and only do for a limited amount of things and/or just applied in a limited area. GP added the concepts only in a limited area (the arena), so it'd be Type 3.
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I agree with giving the Grand Priest Type 3 Concept Manipulation for this, but nothing else
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Well, I’m quite unsure if the Null Realm really is treated as an actual void. But if that’s the case, sure it would qualify. And I was talking about Grand Priest creating a space-time realm within the World of Void, as such users here claimed.
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- #50
What do you think of this?
- 12,579
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- Thread starter
- #51
Could you tag others for this?
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@Elizhaa @Planck69 @Everything12 @Qawsedf234 I was asked to tagged staff and y’all are pretty active in Dragon Ball CRTs
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Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.
The area of influence would just be the WoV a place dimensionally separated from the cosmology as we know it. Type 2 doesn’t need a universal scope according to DT.
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"without space-time there isn't space nor time"
yeah......exactly what logic would entail, again, no proof of actual conceptual stuff for time and space
that Daishinkan example has absolutely no proof for time and space themselves being concepts, only that concepts that rule them exist, which is kind of obvious for most, if not all, fiction
.....you do know that nothing you showed says that time shapes everything in DB right? the Whis quote only ever talks about super basic level time travel rules, that's it, no "shapes all of reality" or anything like that
that's the point, i read those things, hence why i said what i said, you not accepting me disagreeing because i can see that the evidence is insufficient is not a good argument against said insufficiency
yeah, they don't have the concept of time and space..........how do them not having the fundamental forces that shape time and space somehow prove that time and space are fundamental forces themselves?
again, not having the concept of a thing doesn't mean that said thing is a concept in of itself, no idea why you think that it would mean that
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you do affect the future, hence why another timeline is created with said changes, this IS how it works in Dragon Ball, still just very, VERY basic time travel rules
no, not at all, he just introduced a concept which created time, this is how concepts work
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DT's opinion isn't absolute, y'all are pulling again this argument from authority that you used with Ultima already.
The description of Type 3 is pretty clear and fitting in this case, GP didn't affect a whole universe or something here.
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I'm pretty sure that post is valid (it's still does fall with the standards) however it's being misinterpreted (like it's being done here, which yeah I'd be type 3 if this is a concept)
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,116
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Yeah agree with conceptual manipulation for EL Grande Padre
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Agree with this at best. OP hasn’t really explained why it should be type 2. Time and space already inherently govern everything. So extra-ordinary evidence than that will be needed.
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I’m not saying their opinion is absolute but it should hold weight considering they’re very knowledgeable. And considering the page for CM doesn’t seem to have been altered in god knows how long I doubt the age of the comment matters.
The WoV at least needs to be bigger then the universe and the nuetral spaces between them. Considering they weren’t suitable for ToP.
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Honestly I’m down for type 3 CM for GP at the least
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If you’re creating a new future every time you go to the past you’re not really changing anything.
So then it’s conceptual hax
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- Thread starter
- #63
I fixed Op for type 3
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So? GP didn't affect all the WoV, just the arena.
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Nothing here proves time and space are inherently concepts whatsoever.
If it's already agreed that the World of Void lacks a concept of time then Grand Priest can have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for adding it. But only him.
Also, no you don't need to have universal range for Type 2/1 concept manipulation, DT is right about that. The concept itself is what has to prove to be of that scope.
If it's already agreed that the World of Void lacks a concept of time then Grand Priest can have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for adding it. But only him.
Also, no you don't need to have universal range for Type 2/1 concept manipulation, DT is right about that. The concept itself is what has to prove to be of that scope.
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Yes, we are told twice that there is no concept of space-time, we are told that the Daishinkan changes everything.
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Holy shit Luffy you might have actually cooked for once 
- 12,579
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- Thread starter
- #69
I always made good topics, i fused the entire cosmology.Holy shit Luffy you might have actually cooked for once
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We even see Toppo can affect the entire WoV why would he just localize it?
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Toppo warping the WoV isn't really the same as what GP did. He could've affected both the parts that lack and have space-time in them.
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Ins't Type 3 literally about small scale?
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Yes, local scale concepts or concepts tied to specific objects. The scale at which the feat of manipulation is performed doesn't have anything to do with that.
A character wielding the Form of Cat to turn a group of opponents into cats doesn't invalidate the fact that it's a Type 1 concept being manipulated, it just means he has Tens of Meters range with it.
And that aside, I'm fairly sure it's a simpler assumption that he's affecting the World of Void wholesale given the way most lesser characters can do so in this arc, rather than specifically applying it to the arena or the fighters, but that's just me.
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Alright, well to head off that concern, that's not what's happening. He's simply giving this void that has no concept of time an actual concept of time, as shown by it being visibly affected by the passage of time throughout the Tournament of Power
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If that's the case, that's fine. What Type Concept would the Grand Priest be manipulating here, then?
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Type 2 by my understanding, since time isn't a local object at all but we dont have enough information to assume its an independent concept. And it has to be made clear that this applies solely to him applying said concept of time to a realm, assuming this is accepted.
I really don't want to start seeing "GP conceptually destroys" after this.
I really don't want to start seeing "GP conceptually destroys" after this.
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I'll fix it to be a type 2 concept
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If the concepts of time and space are treated as inherently type 2, then I agree with OP for giving the Grand Priest the ability.
Adding space and time to a region without it is an actually cool and specific ability.
Adding space and time to a region without it is an actually cool and specific ability.
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