Dracule Mihawk vs World's Strongest Swordsman

[DaMonkeMan]

So this is basically Mihawk vs Mihawk?
Is there any reason for this to not be inconclusive?

 

[Imaginym]

So this is basically Mihawk vs Mihawk?
Is there any reason for this to not be inconclusive?

Ditto doesn't copy Stamina, Intelligence/Skill, & Equipment copying has been debated.
Plus, there's arguably some ambiguity about how copyable Haki is.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Then I'm leaning towards Mihawk.

 

[AThe1412]

Voting Mohawk FRA.

 

[Imaginym]

Yeah, sure, voting Mihawk as well, if that's valid.
Even if Ditto could copy Haki, I assume Mihawk is more skilled in both swordplay/general combat & Haki, & presumably has more experience, time-wise.

What's Ditto's win condition supposed to be?
Was it argued that Metal Powder & Quick Powder affected post-Transformation Ditto?

 

[AThe1412]

Yeah, sure, voting Mihawk as well, if that's valid.
Even if Ditto could copy Haki, I assume Mihawk is more skilled in both swordplay/general combat & Haki, & presumably has more experience, time-wise.

What's Ditto's win condition supposed to be?
Was it argued that Metal Powder & Quick Powder affected post-Transformation Ditto?

Yeah. But we know they won't work because they only affect the Ditto species specifically and by transforming, it turns into an entirely different species.

 

[Mickey1940]

Not super knowledgeable on how ditto's transformation works but my only guess as to why it might not be able to copy Haki are these two reasons:

1. Characters with haki have been cloned before which creates a true copy of them, retaining their personality, experiences, skills and when applicable even devil Fruit abilities. These clones didn't retain haki though.
2. When Law swapped the souls of the strawhats Nami who was in the body of Sanji wasn't able to use his haki abilities, while Sanji who was placed in Nami'a body could despite her not having it.

Ditto can copy Lucario and use Aura. I'm pretty sure verse equalization will allow Ditto to use Haki

When you say clones I'm gonna assume you're talking about the Seraphim. So far the Seraphim are too featless to know if they have Haki, but it's more than likely they do since they fight in almost the exact same styles as their original basis

In Sanji's and Nami's case, knowing how to use it is different from having it. Sanji could use it in her body since every human and living organism in the verse has Haki due to it essentially being life force, and Sanji could just use it. Ditto should still have it

 

[Mickey1940]

Metal powder doesn't counter it and unlike Ditto Mihawk has his sword Yoru which tanks it.

Every pokemon with items as part of their design can be copied perfectly by Ditto. This is not a good excuse

 

[Eminiteable]

Every pokemon with items as part of their design can be copied perfectly by Ditto. This is not a good excuse

This was already covered, and idk why you're calling it an "excuse".

Ditto can copy Lucario and use Aura. I'm pretty sure verse equalization will allow Ditto to use Haki

This point was already dealt with when we confirmed Ditto can copy the soul of the Pokémon, but just to clarify that copying Aura alone wouldn't let you copy Haki; verse equalization doesn't do that unless it specifically copies the aspect of Mihawk that would allow him to use Haki.

When you say clones I'm gonna assume you're talking about the Seraphim. So far the Seraphim are too featless to know if they have Haki, but it's more than likely they do since they fight in almost the exact same styles as their original basis

All versions of the Pacifista. They're not featless they just straight up can't use haki, the fact is their biology, personality, skill and experiences are completely copied yet the haki of the original isn't retained.

In Sanji's and Nami's case, knowing how to use it is different from having it. Sanji could use it in her body since every human and living organism in the verse has Haki due to it essentially being life force, and Sanji could just use it. Ditto should still have it

The level of Kenbunshoku Sanji's haki is at is Instinctive, in other words even Nami without prior knowledge would have benefitted if being in his body allowed the same level of haki. And we've seen characters who have awakened to Kenbunshoku Haki without training to control it constantly feel the effects (Aisa & Koby) yet this didn't happen to Nami in Sanji's body.

While Sanji himself was able to use his level of haki at the same level without commenting on it being weaker despite being in a body that has never trained or awakened to Kenbunshoku Haki.

But regardless if you had read the previous discussion you'd know the haki discussion was already concluded with Ditto being able to use it.

 

[Mickey1940]

This was already covered, and idk why you're calling it an "excuse".

This point was already dealt with when we confirmed Ditto can copy the soul of the Pokémon, but just to clarify that copying Aura alone wouldn't let you copy Haki; verse equalization doesn't do that unless it specifically copies the aspect of Mihawk that would allow him to use Haki.

All versions of the Pacifista. They're not featless they just straight up can't use haki, the fact is their biology, personality, skill and experiences are completely copied yet the haki of the original isn't retained.

The level of Kenbunshoku Sanji's haki is at is Instinctive, in other words even Nami without prior knowledge would have benefitted if being in his body allowed the same level of haki. And we've seen characters who have awakened to Kenbunshoku Haki without training to control it constantly feel the effects (Aisa & Koby) yet this didn't happen to Nami in Sanji's body.

While Sanji himself was able to use his level of haki at the same level without commenting on it being weaker despite being in a body that has never trained or awakened to Kenbunshoku Haki.

But regardless if you had read the previous discussion you'd know the haki discussion was already concluded with Ditto being able to use it.

1. Because Ditto can still copy inanimate objects and items that other pokemon have. It should be capable of mimicking Yoru
2. ok
3. Normal Pacifista don't have devil fruit abilities. The Seraphim are unconfirmed but aren't entirely mechanical in nature, so it's safe to say that HAVE haki due to being alive
4. Sanji during Fishman Island has Intermediate Kenbun, meaning he activates it at will and can control it. Nami isn't consciously capable of using it, nor would she even know what it feels like. Not to mention Haki isn't tied to someone's body, it's tied to their souls/spirit. If Law switches around Nami's and Sanji's souls, then of course Nami wouldn't be able to use it
5. I just wanted to mention that Dracule Mihawk doesn't have the Breath of All Things. I don't even know why he has it on his profile. The only person who has ever used it is Zoro, and all that does is let him control his cutting power
"Zoro gained the ability to cut through steel, having been heavily wounded by Mr. 1 in Arabasta, where he began hearing the "breath" of things: hearing the breath of rocks, trees, the earth, and steel. Acquring this affinity for it, letting him control his swords' cutting power, not cutting through tree leaves, while cutting through stone. Using this allowed Zoro to cut through Mr. 1's steel body and defeated him using a single strike."
That's not dura negation

Overall yeah Mihawk outskills but Ditto isn't exactly stupid either. Upscaling from the likes of Machop/Machamp and every other fighting pokemon combined, as well as other pokemon proficient in weaponized melee combat, means that Ditto can still keep up. Metal Powder also helps out a lot since it covers Ditto's skill disadvantage with raw defense further amped by Buso and Yuro.

 

[Eminiteable]

1. Because Ditto can still copy inanimate objects and items that other pokemon have. It should be capable of mimicking Yoru

Idk what else to say other than this has already been covered, you're repeating points that have already been made for why Ditto can copy Yoru and I'm not attesting them.

3. Normal Pacifista don't have devil fruit abilities. The Seraphim are unconfirmed but aren't entirely mechanical in nature, so it's safe to say that HAVE haki due to being alive

Pacifista don't have devil fruit abilities as only one fruit can exist at any one time, Vegapunk's method around this is green blood which uses the lineage factor of the original fruit user.

All Pacifista are alive, none of them have haki and it's not safe to say that when they explicitly don't.

4. Sanji during Fishman Island has Intermediate Kenbun, meaning he activates it at will and can control it. Nami isn't consciously capable of using it, nor would she even know what it feels like. Not to mention Haki isn't tied to someone's body, it's tied to their souls/spirit. If Law switches around Nami's and Sanji's souls, then of course Nami wouldn't be able to use it

Ok basically you've just agreed with what's I've been saying then, although your points about Nami are wrong ultimately it doesn't matter since we've moved on from Ditto being able to use haki.

5. I just wanted to mention that Dracule Mihawk doesn't have the Breath of All Things. I don't even know why he has it on his profile. The only person who has ever used it is Zoro, and all that does is let him control his cutting power
"Zoro gained the ability to cut through steel, having been heavily wounded by Mr. 1 in Arabasta, where he began hearing the "breath" of things: hearing the breath of rocks, trees, the earth, and steel. Acquring this affinity for it, letting him control his swords' cutting power, not cutting through tree leaves, while cutting through stone. Using this allowed Zoro to cut through Mr. 1's steel body and defeated him using a single strike."
That's not dura negation

This is a bunch of bullshit, try reading the profiles and the CRTs for why these things are accepted instead of remaining ignorant.

 

[Mickey1940]

Idk what else to say other than this has already been covered, you're repeating points that have already been made for why Ditto can copy Yoru and I'm not attesting them.

Pacifista don't have devil fruit abilities as only one fruit can exist at any one time, Vegapunk's method around this is green blood which uses the lineage factor of the original fruit user.

All Pacifista are alive, none of them have haki and it's not safe to say that when they explicitly don't.

Ok basically you've just agreed with what's I've been saying then, although your points about Nami are wrong ultimately it doesn't matter since we've moved on from Ditto being able to use haki.


This is a bunch of bullshit, try reading the profiles and the CRTs for why these things are accepted instead of remaining ignorant.

1. Ok so we can agree on this point then
2. Anything that is alive in One Piece has Haki since Haki is akin to life force/spirit. Therefore, although it may not be necessarily expressed, the Seraphim do all have Haki. The regular Pacifista do not since they are purely mechanical
3. sure ok
4. From what I've been able to gather, every ******* swordsman in the series is stated to be able to hear the "breath of all things", which is not only based on speculation since that's never explicitedly stated anywhere else in the series, but it's still not durability negation

 

[Eminiteable]

2. Anything that is alive in One Piece has Haki since Haki is akin to life force/spirit. Therefore, although it may not be necessarily expressed, the Seraphim do all have Haki. The regular Pacifista do not since they are purely mechanical

All of them may have the potential for haki due to being living beings, but their level of haki wasn't copied from the original and they have yet to awaken it. And again the Pacifista aren't purely mechanical, they're clones of Kuma turned into cyborgs.

Idk why you're continuing this when it has nothing to do with the actual versus debate at this point, like I've been telling you it's already been established ditto copies Haki.

4. From what I've been able to gather, every ******* swordsman in the series is stated to be able to hear the "breath of all things", which is not only based on speculation since that's never explicitedly stated anywhere else in the series, but it's still not durability negation

If that's the conclusion you came to then you clearly gathered nothing as that's not what's accepted, not what it's based on and you're wrong.

Either actually read the CRT regarding the abilities or make your own to revise it if you generally believe it's wrong, because right now it's just been constant derailing from the original versus debate.

 

[AThe1412]

How many votes left for Grace?

 

[Eminiteable]

Also I'll vote Mihawk FRA.

 

[AThe1412]

Bump?

 

[Nierre]

mihawk fra