Downgrade Infinite speed Arata

[The_Emperor4th]

Can somebody properly explain all of the main arguments here in a single post here please? I can ask for further staff input afterwards.

In summary, Infinite speed is obtained from the previous upgrade thread, which was explained by @Rendynoc0unter who generalized black panel scene=time freeze/stop. This is because, the context there if the attack from Lucifer Gaze is very fast even to the point of making the surrounding situation seem to freeze for a while where the opponent completely needs to react or counter the attack in a finite time. We also have a statement that Lucifer Gaze is a very fast attack from the fastest available.

@Fixxed argues that the black panel scene there is not time stop and it is time slow by bringing a scan/scene from the black panel scene of Liese who at that time used time slow hax. @Fixxed also disagrees with generalizing all black panel scene=time stop. Which is i personally too disagree with generalizing all black panel is time stop.

Some of the people above make an argument, that Lucifer Gaze is time stop abilities or time slow abilities, to which I have objected that Lucifer Gaze is not time stop and time slow, and there is no evidence that Deus Trinity can use time hax, with reason Archieve and Theme he has is very different from Acedia Archieve. Take note that in T7, so far only Acedia Archieve has been shown to be able to manipulate time (time stop, time slow, etc.)

After that, @Fixxed agreed that Lucifer Gaze is not an ability that can manipulate time, but he still doubted by stating that Lucifer Gaze's attack was so fast that the surrounding situation became time slow again. Then I took the two black panel scenes earlier and made a comparison through manga visuals by showing the difference between the time slow scene and the time freeze/stop scene. This is the comparison I made:

Alright, after re-reading the manga over and over again, I might find some evidence that it is not time slow and can be additional evidence that it qualifies as infinite speed.

So, what I understand from Fixxed's argument is that the black panel scene does not necessarily refer to time freeze/stop and maybe it is time slow by comparing the scan from Liese who has done time slow with the visual black panel.

If you look at the visual context in the time slow scene, we can see Miglione moving slightly from her initial position the first time in "time slow". We can see that there is a movement of position from her (and there seems to be a sound effect if she tries to move even in that situation). Also, we can also see the change in her facial reaction when she know that she will be attacked by Liese.

If compared to Arata's scene, there is no change in his body position or any change in his facial reaction when he is about to panic attack from various directions, which indicates that the attack is too fast. The visuals in the manga depict it as if it freeze/stop.

Time slow that we know is not really going to literally make time stop right? so there is logic here if the person affected will have a slight change (such as body position, facial reaction and others). And I'm sure this is not slow time (Arata and Deus scene).

I think there are still things I haven't added, but for now this is all. That's a short explanation of all the arguments above.

 

[Vietthai96]

In summary, Infinite speed is obtained from the previous upgrade thread, which was explained by @Rendynoc0unter who generalized black panel scene=time freeze/stop. This is because, the context there if the attack from Lucifer Gaze is very fast even to the point of making the surrounding situation seem to freeze for a while where the opponent completely needs to react or counter the attack in a finite time. We also have a statement that Lucifer Gaze is a very fast attack from the fastest available.

Actually Rendy generalized that all black panel is timestop, but time hax can only be used if someone possesses Acadia Archive, and Lucifer's Gaze is not a technique belong to Acadia Archive and still a black panel happened when the technique is activated thus it must be speed which to me is a leap in logic, but i can understand that. That why i'm fine if peoples here goes with possibly Infinite speed rating

 

[Fixxed]

even to get a "possibility" rating, I will still be the opposition, the reason is still the same, due to lack of context or detailed explanation about it

 

[Vietthai96]

even to get a "possibility" rating, I will still be the opposition, the reason is still the same, due to lack of context or detailed explanation about it

Not really, the context is there, but due to the lack of detailed explanation, thus it leave a big room for interpretation. That why i called Rendy interpretation is a leap in logic, but i can understand why he interpreting in that way so i'm fine if all goes with a possibly rating, it not like i'm the one who decide the outcome either

 

[ImmortalDread]

Not really, the context is there, but due to the lack of detailed explanation, thus it leave a big room for interpretation. That why i called Rendy interpretation is a leap in logic, but i can understand why he interpreting in that way so i'm fine if all goes with a possibly rating, it not like i'm the one who decide the outcome either

I am actually fine with a possible rating. The context is there, it is on us how we interpret it. Even tho, I disagree with the infinite speed it looks like slowing down rather than stopping.

 

[Antvasima]

@Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @Emirp sumitpo @EliminatorVenom

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/downgrade-infinite-speed-arata.142665/post-5131347

https://vsbattles.com/threads/downgrade-infinite-speed-arata.142665/post-5132043

 

[Everything12]

Put me down for blitz feat, but not infinite speed. Not enough evidence in my opinion, infinite speed needs more then conjecture.

 

[Fixxed]

I think we can make a changes because there are already 2 staff who agree to remove infinite speed

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

I was asking @Everything12 , what did he mean?

 

[The_Emperor4th]

@Everything12

What exactly do you mean by "Put me down for blitz feat"?

2 staff

Not yet, DDM said “If it just says slowing down”, and that was before I sent my last message that proved that it was not time slow. And I'm still waiting for some other Admin responses.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

What exactly do you mean by "Put me down for blitz feat"?

I personally don't understand what he means.

 

[Vietthai96]

What he mean is Lucifer's Gaze feats is just speed blitzing feat not infinite speed

 

[The_Emperor4th]

What he mean is Lucifer's Gaze feats is just speed blitzing feat not infinite speed

He... didn't blitz anyone.... not in the context shown.

 

[Antvasima]

@Everything12

What exactly do you mean by "Put me down for blitz feat"?

Not yet, DDM said “If it just says slowing down”, and that was before I sent my last message that proved that it was not time slow. And I'm still waiting for some other Admin responses.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Everything12

Can you clarify if infinite speed can be removed here please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, I support a downgrade given the most recent details don't appear to hold up for infinite speed in my eyes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply. That change is probably fine to apply then.

 

[Fixxed]

Okay. Thank you for the reply. That change is probably fine to apply then.

Thanks for your confirming, already make a change. You can close this CRT

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. I will close this thread then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.