Downgrade Base Miles "Tails" Prower Speed:

[JohnCenaNation]

According to Tails's profile, he is Massively FTL+ in his base form all because he can keep up with base form Sonic. Well, there is everything wrong with this. Not only Tails has never shown anything remotely close to light speed feat of his own in the comic, but to scale him to Sonic would be considered an outlier/inconsistent for many reasons:




1. Sonic is a jobber glass cannon who doesn't always necessary runs at Massively Faster Than Light+ full speed all the time, there are times where he doesn't run at light speed so that slow characters like Sally could keep up with him on foot race, and there are times where he runs at baseline faster than light speed.

2. Not just in race, but in a fight as well. Sonic tends to have his speed absent just to give slower and non light speed opponent a fair chance at beating him in a fight namely Antoine.

3. To justify Tails's Massively Faster Thank Light+, he needs to have speed feat of his own, and shouldn't be scaled to Sonic who tends to be a jobber glass cannon when using his speed.

Therefore, can we all agree that base Tails isn't Massively FTL+ speed? I feel like either possibly FTL or Unknown speed to be more suited for his character, because Sonic appears to be very inconsistent at how fast he moves.

Note: I'm only referring to base Tails that needs his speed to be downgraded, not any other versions of Tails with different transformations.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

NANI?

 

[ShakeResounding]

"jobber glass cannon" ... Wut

Also I'd debunk this but honestly I'm just not gonna bother. Not being rude but... I got homework to do lol.

 

[HST_Master]

>Jobber glass cannon

How did you even get this out of 3 pages.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

>Jobber glass cannon

How did you even get this out of 3 pages.

Because all of these panels are showing that Sonic didn't completely cut loose, he was simply being casual.

 

[The_Calaca]

Maurice kek.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

>"Tails has never shown to keep up with Sonic"

https://pm1.narvii.com/6378/60021ae1ed62e9d2951cb4d6b44d8efc3e42fb5b_hq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyqBoVgX0AANqFU.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9T8OhNr45ko/TjG0IKoWX5I/AAAAAAAAAQA/dw6nN2uRuuM/s1600/STH52+2.jpg

Sure.....

-Keep in mind Sonic's MFTL+ feat was preformed casually as he ran through the Cosmic Interstate.As shown Tails and other Archie characters who can react and keep up with Sonic especially in combat scale to that level of speed.This is basic scaling here.

-Whenever Enerjak was attacking Mobius both Sonic and Tails were rushing as fast as they could to reach Enerjak.Sonic logically would be moving faster than he would be by casually running through the Cosmic Interstate and Tails was following Sonic.

-Tails has matched Sonic in combat and wasn't blitzed.Pretty much all the Archie Base characters scale off each other in terms of speed.Again this is just simple speed scaling.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

>"Tails has never shown to keep up with Sonic"

https://pm1.narvii.com/6378/60021ae1ed62e9d2951cb4d6b44d8efc3e42fb5b_hq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyqBoVgX0AANqFU.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9T8OhNr45ko/TjG0IKoWX5I/AAAAAAAAAQA/dw6nN2uRuuM/s1600/STH52+2.jpg

Sure.....

Other than the panel mentioning hypersonic speed, the rest of the panel doesn't mention anything about Sonic's speed whatsoever. Keeping up with a casual Sonic =/= on par with Sonic's speed.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Bad thread is bad.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

"Glass Canon"

I guess surviving blasts from Ixis,Al,Cal and Feist are merely glass canon feats....

When has Sonic ever jobbed in an actual serious combative fight? The examples you show aren't combative at all other than the last one which has a character that already scales to Sonic in speed so the images accomplished nothing.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

-Keep in mind Sonic's MFTL+ feat was preformed casually as he ran through the Cosmic Interstate.As shown Tails and other Archie characters who can react and keep up with Sonic especially in combat scale to that level of speed.This is basic scaling here.

-Whenever Enerjak was attacking Mobius both Sonic and Tails were rushing as fast as they could to reach Enerjak.Sonic logically would be moving faster than he would be by casually running through the Cosmic Interstate and Tails was following Sonic.

-Tails has matched Sonic in combat and wasn't blitzed.Pretty much all the Archie Base characters scale off each other in terms of speed.Again this is just simple speed scaling.

1. Yet they get blitzed majority of the time when Sonic is just being casual and non-serious?

2. Again, why are we scaling Tails with Sonic? Show me some speed feat of his own.

3. By keeping up with casual and non-serious Sonic in a fight, sure.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

"Glass Canon"

I guess surviving blasts from Ixis,Al,Cal and Feist are merely glass canon feats....

When has Sonic ever jobbed in an actual serious combative fight? The examples you show aren't combative at all other than the last one which has a character that already scales to Sonic in speed so the images accomplished nothing.

Since when has Sonic ever fought the Freedom Fighters in an actual serious combative fight?

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Other than the panel mentioning hypersonic speed, the rest of the panel doesn't mention anything about Sonic's speed whatsoever. Keeping up with a casual Sonic =/= on par with Sonic's speed.

Again,Sonic's MFTL+ feat is preformed casually by running through the Cosmic Interstate.In a serious match Sonic is gonna be moving faster and especially when Enerjak threatened to kill his freinds and was rushing to save them and Tails follows after him keeping up.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

The speed calc is linked to his page.Sonic preformed said feat casually.We see so many times Tails keeping up with Sonic casually.

I'm honestly not gonna exert any more effort into a thread that's not gonna downgrade anything.

Also in that last panel Sonic is fighting Antoine seriously so I have no idea what your talking about lol.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Also, just gonna say...

If people need their own speed feats nowadays and not have scaling exist, we're gonna have to spend a few years downgrading about 90% of our profiles. Let's get to work right now!

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Aw darn Game Tails is gonna no longer be FTL because he doesn't have statements or feats by himself going FTL.Sad days ahead....

 

[JohnCenaNation]

The speed calc is linked to his page.Sonic preformed said feat casually.We see so many times Tails keeping up with Sonic casually.

I'm honestly not gonna exert any more effort into a thread that's not gonna downgrade anything.

Also in that last panel Sonic is fighting Antoine seriously so I have no idea what your talking about lol.

Antoine is Massively FTL+, yet he had trouble outrunning a motorbug in a foot race. Sally is Massively FTL+, yet she got outswimmed by a ladybug. Context please. So 90% of the speed feat comes from the Freedom Fighter has nothing to do with them being Massively Faster Than Light+, whereas 10% of them all scales to Sonic who is simply being casual at an unknown speed. I mean, if half of these guys and gals are light speed as you claim them to be, why do they always ask Sonic to do simple task that doesn't take you to be light speed in order to accomplish?

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Inconsistency clause,Archie Sonic like many series have inconsistencies if we downplay the base characters below what they all scale to via MFTL+ we would be ignoring the high ends of base characters reacting to Master Mogul and Enerjak whom are both immeasurable.Downplaying said characters would be ignoring the higher feats of speed preformed.

 

[Epsilon_R]

...

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Inconsistency clause,Archie Sonic like many series have inconsistencies if we downplay the base characters below what they all scale to via MFTL+ we would be ignoring the high ends of base characters reacting to Master Mogul and Enerjak whom are both immeasurable.Downplaying said characters would be ignoring the higher feats of speed preformed.

Quantity > Quality, if majority of their feats showing doesn't display MFTL+, we simply treated it as an outlier and just simply ignore it, or else we would have gotten ourselves outerverse level Post-Crisis Superman by now in this wiki.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

What's not to say the lower feats aren't consistent considering they consistently fought Mogul and Enerjak in base.Also Eggman has been shown to have built robots that can match Sonic at max speed like the Egg Beater.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

What's not to say the lower feats aren't consistent considering they consistently fought Mogul and Enerjak in base.Also Eggman has been shown to have built robots that can match Sonic at max speed like the Egg Beater.

Eggman?! You mean the same Eggman who always lose to Sonic in a fight is suddenly accurate on building robots that are precisely accurate on Sonic's power level?! BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA!!!

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Egg_Beater

Yeah about that.....

 

[ShakeResounding]

Losing in a fight isn't equal to not knowing your enemy

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

"Eggman has never built a robot that matched Sonic at top speeds and beat him"

Egg Beater:I'm about to end this mans whole career.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Losing in a fight isn't equal to not knowing your enemy

Still doesn't explain why Eggman always lose to Sonic in a fight.

 

[Js250476]

honestly can someone just Super Genesis Wave this thread.

 

[AshenCrow777]

For all the reasons stated above I hole heartedly disagree with the downgrade also all of these are horribly uses so that you can downgrade tails you need wayyyy more proof than just 3 pages from different comics.


And glass Canon really???

 

[ShakeResounding]

Still doesn't explain why Eggman always lose to Sonic in a fight.

Because Eggman is obese

 

[HST_Master]

Not only that, several models of Metal Sonic are specifically built to be superior to him. And a Metal Scourge.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Egg_Beater

Yeah about that.....

Another lousy Sonic character in this wiki being scaled to Sonic as an evidence without any feats of it's own. Literally, show me some stand alone character feats without being compared to Sonic, then we can finally talk.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I hope you realize you can scale characters speeds off each other.They don't need their own independent feats of said speed.By you logic almost all the profiles in the site would need to be changed.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Also the Eggbeater matched Sonic at his absolute limit.Egg Beater 100% scales from Sonic's casual MFTL+ feat.

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

Oblivion is right and I agree with him 100%.

This thread can be conceptually removed by Chaos Control now.

 

[Air_Raid_Malocchio]

literally all of the Freedom Fighters & Supression Squad have casually steered & reacted while traversing an infinite multiverse on The Cosmic Interstate. That warrants an upgrade,not a downgrade.

 

[AshenCrow777]

OK this feel like spite thread unless you have actual proof none of this will ever accepted.

Someone should close this.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@JohnCenaNation You're arguing against basic powerscaling. Someone is portrayed as being comparable or equal to Sonic, they would scale to him.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

literally all of the Freedom Fighters & Supression Squad have casually steered & rescted while traversing an infinite multiverse on The Cosmic Interstate. That warrents an upgrade,not a downgrade.

Proof? After all, a screenshot should be helpful here.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Better idea.

How about you stop arguing against basic power scaling when you've been told time and time again about examples that show how these characters scale, and the literal best you can do is pull up nonexistant points and your own feelings backed by nothing about how you think stuff should be.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The official encyclopedia states Tails is almost as fast as Sonic.

Miles earned the nickname "Tails" from his mutation: a pair of tails. While these appendages could propel him nearly as fast as Sonic, Tails found himself left behind by his would-be comrades.

There are tons of instances of Tails keeping pace with a serious Sonic, as mentioned above.

This thread should probably be closed.