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Doraemon Vs. Jerry Mouse

He leads with firing weapons for a mouse, as far I know. Then again, he quickly turns into bloodlust when fighting a mouse.
 
So, Energy Projection? Jerry's reaction speed would help here if that's the case; he has to get rid of Doraemon before he uses any of his better gadgets.
 
This can go 2 ways

1 way is Doraemon seeing a mouse and either panics and runs away screaming, BFRing himself, or faints on the spot. Jerry wins by default

OR

Doraemon sees a mouse and gets bloodlusted, and throws every gu or missiles he has in his pocket at Jerry. Jerry has no justification for being higher than baseline, which is <<< Doraemon's physical AP, which in turn << all his weapons I listed above.

So Inconclusive. Depends entirely on Doraemon's response

EDIT: Apparently speed's not equalized. Jerry is still not gonna dent Doraemon's dura. After failing to get the damn mouse (second scenario), Doraemon gets mad and nuke the area with missiles, or use the Fast Bill to catch up with Jerry, or use the Hamelin pipe to BFR Jerry.
 
Graf Thorsdottir said:
This can go 2 ways
1 way is Doraemon seeing a mouse and either panics and runs away screaming, BFRing himself, or faints on the spot. Jerry wins by default

OR

Doraemon sees a mouse and gets bloodlusted, and throws every gu or missiles he has in his pocket at Jerry. Jerry has no justification for being higher than baseline, which is <<< Doraemon's physical AP, which in turn << all his weapons I listed above.

So Inconclusive. Depends entirely on Doraemon's response

EDIT: Apparently speed's not equalized. Jerry is still not gonna dent Doraemon's dura. After failing to get the damn mouse (second scenario), Doraemon gets mad and nuke the area with missiles, or use the Fast Bill to catch up with Jerry, or use the Hamelin pipe to BFR Jerry.
Click to expand...
I agree that Doraemon probably takes this pretty handily, assuming that his reaction at the start of the battle is the second one you mentioned instead of the first.

On the other hand. . . .what reason do we have for believing that Jerry's 9-B key is no higher than baseline?

I don't think Jerry's toon-force will be able to help him much here, because his toonforce isn't nearly as good as that available to more notable toonforce users like Bugs Bunny or Roadrunner.
 
Tom and Jerry is actually about the third verse with best toon force, behind Looney Tunes and Popeye, as far I remember.
 
Bobsican said:
Tom and Jerry is actually about the third verse with best toon force, behind Looney Tunes and Popeye, as far I remember.
Click to expand...
Really? I wasn't aware of that. Of course, most of my memories of the T&J verse are from when I was a kid, so it makes sense I may not remember that well.

Anyway though, what do we know about Tier 9-B Jerry in terms of whether he as at all above baseline?
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
DC Comics has 5-D Toon Force users, so shouldn't it be the best?
Click to expand...
Tiering? Probably.

Versatility and degree of it? Not much really.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
What's the difference between tiering and degree?
Click to expand...
Just because Mr. Mxy's (I assume that is who you are referring to, it's pretty obvious lol) toonforce is at a 5-D tier doesn't mean that it is able to break reality any harder than Bugs Bunny's or Popeye's toonforce.

It's hard to find a higher degree of toonforce than that which lets someone use a freaking hand-saw to somehow separate Florida from the rest of the united states, lmao. Looney Tunes characters and Popeye can basically use Toonforce to tell any of the laws of physics that they want to go f**k themselves, haha.

Don't certain versions of Mickey Mouse also have really, really insanely high degrees of toonforce, if I'm not mistaken?
 
Doraemon is haxy af. But, it won't matter if he sees Jerry and runs away/faints in terror. Voting Jerry since Doraemon has not once fought a mouse with any amount of efficiency due to being mortally afraid of them.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
Not really, it's just simple Reality Warping, but whatever.
Click to expand...
Unlike reality warping, Toon Force depends up to what the user desires and how much is aware of it, in cases where you can grab holes like a paper and put it in another place, or paint a realistic thing on a wall and then just go in it as if it was an actual thing are stuff usually exclusive to high-degree Toon Forcers.
 
It´s more like a defensive hax, attemps at discuss it offensivelly can easily lead to questionable potential wanks.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
Yeah, and all of that is pretty basic when it comes to hax; Toon Force is not that good of a power overall.
Click to expand...
You really shouldn't underestimate Toon Force so much, it can be very powerful in the hands of a character who is great at using it.

It is basically a type of reality warping in a certain sense, with the requirement that it needs to be silly or funny in some way and typically needs to involve visual gags. But that doesn't mean that it can't be extremely powerful; The ways in which the very best Toon Force users are able to break the laws of physics and rewrite reality to suit their needs can be extremely impressive.

For example, the time that I mentioned when Bugs Bunny used a freaking ORDINARY SIZED STEEL HAND-SAW to literally SAW FLORIDA OFF FROM THE UNITED STATES. Saying that being able to do something like that isn't useful is pretty ridiculous, becuase what it means is that Bugs Bunny can take an ordinary handheld item and somehow make it freaking large-island level or something along those lines, with the only limitation being that whatever he does with the item has to be goofy-looking.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
> Implying sawing Florida is impressive.
Click to expand...
Of course no, compared to Bugs' own actual composite tier which is 5-A, a High 6-C or 6-B feat like sawing off Florida from the USA is not impressive. But my point is that it is impressive in the sense that he somehow accomplished such a feat using a weapon/item which literally only has 9-B durability. Literally just an ordinary freaking steel-and-wood hand-saw. The level of physics and reality manipulation exhbited by such a feat is very, VERY impressive.

Not to mention the SIZE of the saw should have made the feat impossible, not just its durability. We're talking about a hand-saw with 9-B durability and only a couple feet in length somehow being used in a matter of ONLY A FEW SECONDS to saw off the entire freaking state of florida (length of hundreds of miles, depth of bedrock dozens of miles) from the rest of the United States. At which point, Bugs continued to use his Toonforce via visual-gags to further screw with the laws of physics by making it so that Florida somehow floats away as if it were floating on top of the water instead of attached to the continental shelf and the North American tectonic plate. Just watch, man:

Bugs Bunny Saws Off Florida

To say the above feat isn't impressive shows an unbelievable amount of bias against toonforce users that I can't even begin to fathom.


As I said man, do not underestimate Toonforce, Toonforce is some powerful stuff. Keep dissing it, and I think that Popeye may like to eat some spinach and then have a word with you. Lol.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
> Implying sawing Florida is impressive.
Click to expand...
That´s pulling a 6-A feat with a 9-B item enhanced with toon force.

It´s actually impressive.
 
Bobsican said:
Paulo.junior.969 said:
> Implying sawing Florida is impressive.
Click to expand...
That´s pulling a 6-A feat with a 9-B item enhanced with toon force.
It´s actually impressive.
Click to expand...
Yeah dude, exactly what I was saying.

Although I don't think the feat is even CLOSE to 6-A, I think that at best it is 6-B.
 
Literally any 5-A Reality Warper who is worth a damn could do the same; doing stuff on lower tier is not really that impressive when we're talking about hax, no matter what weapon you're using.

Toon Force is really overastimated, honestly, it's literally just a more limited version of Reality Warping; it is a good power, but I've never seen a Toon Force chatacter having "unlimited potential" like people say they do.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
Literally any 5-A Reality Warper who is worth a damn could do the same; doing stuff on lower tier is not really that impressive when we're talking about hax, no matter what weapon you're using.
Toon Force is really overastimated, honestly, it's literally just a more limited version of Reality Warping; it is a good power, but I've never seen a Toon Force chatacter having "unlimited potential" or stuff like that.
Click to expand...
The point here is that since Bugs Bunny's actual tier is 5-A, he can totally pull off a feat like the one mentioned above which is at Tier 5-A instead of High 6-C to 6-B.

Toon Force, at a high enough level (like the level of Popeye and Looney Tunes characters), allows someone to do any kind of reality warping up to their tier (and in some cases, above their tier by negating durability through things like transmutation and what-not) as long as it could in any way be seen as funny. Yes, that is a limitation, but it's not as big a limitation you seem to think as long as someone is creative enough and has a good enough sense of humor.

I mean, Toon Force can even make someone pretty much immune to death by conventional means, as long as it provides for a good visual gag. That has happened literally a gazillion times in Looney Tunes, like all the times when Yosemite Sam has been shot or stabbed full of holes and somehow survived, or all the times when Daffy Duck has gotten his freaking face blown off so hard that it flipped his beak around to the other side of his head. Yes yes I know, those are actually Regenerationn feats, not toonforce per-se. . . .buuuuut the reason those Regenerationn feats are possible is because they are visual gags, meaning that those regen feats come from the characters' toon-force.

Pretty much at least half of the various powers listed for characters like Bugs Bunny are just powers they were able to make up on-the-fly using their toonforce reality-warping as visual gags. High-level Toonforce users are kinda like Pre-Crisis Superman in that regard, they can pretty much give themselves new powers as they please as long as those powers happen to result in something funny looking. For example, in the above feat where he saws off Florida, Bugs Bunny used toonforce to grant himself two whole new powers unique to that particular situation: The first being the ability to amplify the durability and range of an ordinary handheld object by tremendously many orders of magnitude (i.e. he gave himself a form of Stats-Amplification for Objects pretty much on-the-fly), and the second one being some type of Earth-manipulation, seeing as how he somehow made Florida behave as if it were floating on the water instead of attached to a tectonic plate. He quite literally just gave himself new superpowers as he pleased in order to do something funny.

And LMAO yeah this is still Doraemon vs. Jerry, but I feel that a discussion of how useful an ability Toonforce can be is certainly relevant here.
 
Assuming they can just give themselves whatever power they want even if they have never shown it is pretty NLF (NLF is another thing that kind of kills a bunch of arguments towards Toon Force); as I said, it does allow the user to do stuff like warp reality and alter physics to some extent, but all of that is pretty basic when it comes to hax; it's just a variation of Reality Warping, just that.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
Assuming they can just give themselves whatever power they want even if they have never shown it is pretty NLF (NLF is another thing that kind of kills a bunch of arguments towards Toon Force); as I said, it does allow the user to do stuff like warp reality and alter physics to some extent, but all of that is pretty basic when it comes to hax; it's just a variation of Reality Warping, just that.
Click to expand...
As I said it is any power they want WITH CERTAIN LIMITATIONS, those limitations being that it is limited by their tier and the degree of the reality warping they have demonstrated in the past, as well as by the limitation that whatever they do has to look funny.

I certainly wasn't saying anything along the lines of a NLF, so it's obvious I could have phrased things better. My bad, lol.
 
I'm honestly kind of surprised to see that Doraemon himself isn't considered a Toonforce user himself; a lot of what he has done with some of his gadgets certainly SEEMS like Toonforce, doesn't it?

Oh, also, when we were talking about some of the very best Toon Force users, there was someone we forgot to include who is actually probably even somewhat above the likes of Looney Tunes: Arale from Doctor Slump. She has a RIDICULOUS degree of Toon Force with seemingly very few, if any, limitations. She can pop the sun like a balloon while still standing on the ground on earth, and can grant life to inanimate objects as large as entire planets in order to cause them to make funny faces. She can even amp her stats by going Super Saiyan despite. . . .not being a Saiyan. Because it's funny. Lol.
 
Yeah, Tier 1 is where things start to get a little hard to understand if you don't have at least a basic understanding of dimensionality, and most comedy cartoon don't waste their time trying to do anything related to higher dimensions; they're there to make kids laugh, not to explain what the sixth dimension is.
 
That's also why Tier 1 is not that common in mainstream media overall, and the ones that have it are mainly science-fiction; in order to have a Tier 1, the show woul have to waste its time explaining what dimensionality is to the viewer so they don't get lost, and even if they explain, the most casual viewer might still get lost, since higher dimensions isn't that simple of a concept.
 
Yeah I've gotta say that once you start getting into the level of Tier 1 characters, Toon Force tends to become completely irrelevant compared to their other, far more versatile forms of Reality Warping and similar hax.

I'm actually surprised there is even such a thing as a Tier 1 with Toonforce. . .VERY surprised.
 
I like to explain higher dimensions as simply like a file on a PC, no matter how big it gets, you won´t get to another file (universe), unless you make a special way to travel to it between the carpet they are in (the 5th dimension), and if te carpet was inside another carpet and the file you want to go to is in the higher extension, you have to go past the 6th dimension, and so on.

There, a simple definition easy to grasp.
 
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