Doom Eternal Revision Thread Part 4

[Sir_sun_man]

wait i just reread the codex
"Scattered in Hell, abandoned by their clergy and reinforcements, the Sentinels proved their worth in what would be their final war with the forces of all evil. Unrelenting power in the face of certain death, the Sentinels crushed hundreds of demons and skewered Titans. When their Atlans held no more fuel the Sentinels took to the ground and fought the swarms on land. All of Hell knew of the Betrayal, for it was without question the Maykrs and the Priests who had sowed the seeds of deceit long before the brave warriors passed through the gate. What Hell saw that day was the beating heart of the free people of Argent D'Nur; they did not flinch in the face of their own certain death. They died as they lived, with sword and shield in hand, Urdak too low a place to house such giants. Theirs would be the fate of warrior gods, remembered for all time."
it spesificly implies that the sentinals used atlans to kill titans(since i dought a regular night sentinal spear can do much else then prick their flesh) and they fought the swarms of hell on land
there is no proof or implication that they fought titans hand to hand

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

@Sir_sun_man

Well no,they didn’t fight hand to hand.Rather had legions of sentinels take them down.They likely aimed for weakpoints.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

it doesn't even imply that they fought titans after the altans ran out of juice hell in exultia all the dead titans that we see have been killed by atlans nothing else
we know that the sentinal tribes put hammer to the anestral titans(Which ageing we don't know how strong they where since all of them were wiped out) but ageing they took them down in numbers

 

[Sir_sun_man]

im fine with the average sentinal being above 9-A but they are in no shape or form even remotly close too low 7-C

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Ancestral titans are likely at least comparable to the barges.You don’t just have something be called a Titan and not reference the only type of Titan within your world.

Even with overwhelming with numbers,no amount of 9-A’s can take down a low 7-C without some sort of more powerful tech.I still suggest the following.

Marauders/High tanking Sentinels(Warrior Kings) get a tier 8-B/8-A rating due to being able to overpower the titans with assistance of numbers.They also likely aimed for weakpoints as well.This rating would only apply to their AP with crucible blades and their durability would remain 9-A(they shouldn’t be likely to take hits from titans whatsoever).

Other sentinel soldiers/fodder maintain a 9-A rating,possibly higher if they helped in a significant way to slay a Titan.

 

[DTG499]

Read it again, it said that they used the atlans until they ran out of fuel and proceeded fight the titans on foot.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

****** doom lore

Why can’t Hugo make this shit simple?

The low 7-C scaling might be possible for high ranking night sentinels’ AP only with the crucible blades.This would only be if we scale the Titans above the Ion cannon,which is likely.

 

[DTG499]

The scaling in this lore can defiantly go more ways than one.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Read it again, it said that they used the atlans until they ran out of fuel and proceeded fight the titans on foot.

it doesn't say they fought the titans it mentions that they fought the swarms of hell on foot and i highly dought a titan can be classefited as a swarm

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Ancestral titans are likely at least comparable to the barges.You don’t just have something be called a Titan and not reference the only type of Titan within your world.

Even with overwhelming with numbers,no amount of 9-A’s can take down a low 7-C without some sort of more powerful tech.I still suggest the following.

Marauders/High tanking Sentinels(Warrior Kings) get a tier 8-B/8-A rating due to being able to overpower the titans with assistance of numbers.They also likely aimed for weakpoints as well.This rating would only apply to their AP with crucible blades and their durability would remain 9-A(they shouldn’t be likely to take hits from titans whatsoever).

Other sentinel soldiers/fodder maintain a 9-A rating,possibly higher if they helped in a significant way to slay a Titan.

ok
"First came the Ancestrals, feral creatures invigorated by the magic of the Wraiths. They grew to enormous heights, mighty behemoths who waged war with each other for years untold. Their battles tore the land asunder and destroyed all creation caught in their wake. The Wraithcall continued to spread across the land and soon the Argenta emerged from the steppes, our souls stirred into form by the power of their breath.

The titans towered over the wild-blooded tribes but found them uncowed. The Secret of the Sword was discovered, and in the darkness of sweltering mountain-forges, we beat steel until it was strong enough to pierce bone and sever flesh.
Thus we came to be; born of rock and fire, lowly in birth but risen by the strength of our will. By the blessedness of the First Ones, we forged sword and shield and took the hammer to the Ancestrals. We claimed dominion of creation by right of blood and magick, and the Time of Man came to be. "
the best i can tell you is that the sentinals where only capable of beating the ansestral through being impowered by the wraiths(Hell they even used the wraith call to descover the secret of the sword so who knows they might have had some magic weapons too boot) so only wraith empowered night sentinals would be anywhere near that strong
9-A/at least 9-A/ possibly 8-B to 8-A
regular sentinals/night sentinals/wraith empowered sentinals
and the wraith empowered sentinals wouldn't scale to training doom guy as he became the highest of rank after the wraiths grew silent

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

the blessedness of the first ones

This likely means how the wraithcall brought their souls into physical form and not a blessing.Seeing how it mentions that they were created by them,not empowered.

they might have magic swords to boot

not stated

One more thing,argent energy is combination of wraith essence and hell essence to make a more powerful energy.So the sentinels have obtained even more powerful weaponry(argent energy blades)compared to what the wraiths could’ve even given them.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

This likely means how the wraithcall brought their souls into physical form and not a blessing.Seeing how it mentions that they were created by them,not empowered.



not stated

One more thing,argent energy is combination of wraith essence and hell essence to make a more powerful energy.So the sentinels have obtained even more powerful weaponry(argent energy blades)compared to what the wraiths could’ve even given them.

"The Wraithcall continued to spread across the land and soon the Argenta emerged from the steppes, our souls stirred into form by the power of their breath."
that was stated in the first parahraph the repeat of that wouldn't make sense they were clearly power boosted by wraiths
also this
"The Night Sentinels prepared for war once again, though this battle meant drawing the blood of their own brothers. Our army had seen the work of the demons firsthand and knew its evil. They had returned to the way of the Wraiths, and though their armament was diminished without the Esence, it remained pure and righteous. A division amongst the Argenta had occurred, one side standing in opposition to the doctrine of the Maykrs, the other locked in belief. The Ascended Empire was comprised of the faithful and misled, wielding the desecrated energies of Hell, the power of the Maykrs, and Marauders who had sided with the Khan. The Night Sentinels were bolstered by the free people of Argenta and the mightiest of all killers, the Slayer himself.

Plans and tactics were drawn. The Sentinels would close the Argent energy factories in Nekravol, that which fed the world of Urdak directly with its supply of fresh Essence. They would stop the flow. The slumbering Wraiths would wake from their sleep and give Argent D'Nur courage."
Let it be known that it was not the Priests alone who failed the Northern armies, but one of the Sentinels own. Hell found his weakness, and exploited it to the demise of Argent D'Nur. If not for the Betrayer's stroke of madness the Wraiths power would still be our own, and the Sentinel flag would still rise above Argent D'Nur to this day"
oh would you look at that if not for the betral of Commander Valen the power of the wraiths would still be with the night sentinel its as if they impowered them who knew
also it quite clearly states that the wraiths where slumbaring during the whole essense ordeal and that they mixxed the essance and the wraith energy to create greater weapons nothing more

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Could you work on your grammar a bit?it’s a little hard to understand.

By the blessedness of the First Ones, we forged sword and shield and took the hammer to the Ancestrals.

This does not imply a buff,it only implies the previous gift given by the Wraiths.Which was life.

Also they made more powerful weaponry with argent energy and not to mention the wraiths weren’t always with the sentinels in the first place.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

im dislexic

 

[DTG499]

it doesn't say they fought the titans it mentions that they fought the swarms of hell on foot and i highly dought a titan can be classefited as a swarm

When you take into account that hell is 2-B is size then yes the titans would counted among the swarm. But besides that let’s take a look at some visual evidence of this happening from the environmental story telling of the Exultia level.
As we can see here the atlan ran out of power mid battle with the titan, we know the atlan didn’t kill the titan with the energy spear because the titans gut would have been slit open like what we saw when we turned it back on.

So how did the titan die if the atlan didn’t kill it? There are only 3 possible scenarios.

One option is that is was killed by another atlan but is very unlikely because the only other atlan near by was buried under ruble and its reasonable to assume that the other atlans ran out of power at the same time. We also see no stab wounds or bullet holes on the deceased titan.

Option two would be that doomguy swooped in and killed the titan himself, much more likely than option one but not as likely as three....

Which is that “the Sentinels skewered Titans. When their Atlans held no more fuel the Sentinels took to the ground and fought the swarms on land” which is the most likely scenario.

So it’s either option 2 or 3. There is clearly more solid evidence for scenario 3.

Also on a side note, to your other comment. The wraith empowered sentinels ARE the Night Sentinels, they still have a connection to them it’s why we see their ghosts when we set the wraiths free in 2016.

 

[MicDaniel]

Could you work on your grammar a bit?it’s a little hard to understand.



This does not imply a buff,it only implies the previous gift given by the Wraiths.Which was life.

Also they made more powerful weaponry with argent energy and not to mention the wraiths weren’t always with the sentinels in the first place.

The codex about the Wraith makes it clear that the Sentinels are spawned from Wraith Energy. Because of this, it's not an amp. They've always been that powerful because they were literally made from that energy, the Same as the Ancestral Titans. While the Wraith weren't always with the Sentinels, it's obvious that the Wraiths chose them during the battle with the Ancestrals. Crucible weaponry did not exist during the battles with the Ancestrals, as they had to use metal weaponry to fight them.

 

[DTG499]

Since we have an addition instance of the Night Sentinels scaling to the hell titans and that scaling the rest of the sentinel race to the low 7-C ancestrals would lead to complications in the scaling chain.

I say we keep night sentinels specifically at low 7-C, scaling pre divinity machine doomguy to them scaling the champion Titan and dreadnaught above them making them at least low 7-C or 7-C making post divinty machine doomguy 7-C or at least 7-C, possibly higher from defeating the icon of sin.

The marauders would scale to night sentinels physically and their weapons would scale above them. I also think the BFG scaling above the Ion catapult would make sense at this point.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

The codex about the Wraith makes it clear that the Sentinels are spawned from Wraith Energy. Because of this, it's not an amp. They've always been that powerful because they were literally made from that energy, the Same as the Ancestral Titans. While the Wraith weren't always with the Sentinels, it's obvious that the Wraiths chose them during the battle with the Ancestrals. Crucible weaponry did not exist during the battles with the Ancestrals, as they had to use metal weaponry to fight them.

if they are already that strong from the get go why would commander valen giving the wraiths to the priest even matter? it even states in the codex ageing
"If not for the Betrayer's stroke of madness the Wraiths power would still be our own, and the Sentinel flag would still rise above Argent D'Nur to this day"
it is clear as day that wraiths do provide power to the sentinals as the marauders and the maykrs already had massive stores of argent energy

 

[DTG499]

if they are already that strong from the get go why would commander valen giving the wraiths to the priest even matter? it even states in the codex ageing
"If not for the Betrayer's stroke of madness the Wraiths power would still be our own, and the Sentinel flag would still rise above Argent D'Nur to this day"
it is clear as day that wraiths do provide power to the sentinals as the marauders and the maykrs already had massive stores of argent energy

They still had access to their own sentinel/wraith energy, that’s what the atlans and their weapons are powered by. They just lost the unlimited supply of it that was being generated from the wraiths.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

atlans where craeted with the use of argent though their weaposn support that idea

 

[MicDaniel]

atlans where craeted with the use of argent though their weaposn support that idea

No, it was stated that Atlans use Sentinel energy and that they stopped using argent once they found out what it was made of.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sentinel Energy

Sentinel Energy, also known as Wraith Energy or Wraith Essence, is the untainted essence derived from the Wraiths prior to their imprisonment. Sentinel Energy has many extraordinary properties with a seemingly endless number of uses, powering mighty machines and spaceships like the Fortress of...

doom.fandom.com

Sentinel Energy, also known as Wraith Energy or Wraith Essence, is the untainted essence derived from the Wraiths prior to their imprisonment. Sentinel Energy has many extraordinary properties with a seemingly endless number of uses, powering mighty machines and spaceships like the Fortress of Doom, to granting individual takers superhuman physique.
yeah i re read the codex and yeah you are right atlans did use the wraith enssance my mistake
but still sentinals being more powerful then titans without wraith essence is a far fetched theory at best

 

[MicDaniel]

"They had returned to the way of the Wraiths, and though their armament was diminished without the Esence, it remained pure and righteous."
Atlans did use argent energy but they stopped using it once they found out what it was. There energy source for there weapons were no longer as effective but no mention of there own power has been stated to diminish. So with the Wraiths Power gone, The Sentinels could not properly power there Atlans or Any Weaponry that uses energy. However, the Sentinels themselves are still capable warriors, as Ientioned earlier, they took out the Ancestrals with basic weaponry.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

"They had returned to the way of the Wraiths, and though their armament was diminished without the Esence, it remained pure and righteous."
Atlans did use argent energy but they stopped using it once they found out what it was. There energy source for there weapons were no longer as effective but no mention of there own power has been stated to diminish. So with the Wraiths Power gone, The Sentinels could not properly power there Atlans or Any Weaponry that uses energy.

yes i just said that

 

[MicDaniel]

I know, I just had to find the section where they say they did stop using argent energy and went back to wraith.

 

[DTG499]

The night sentinels scale to the hell titans as well.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

still wraith essance clearly empowers the person too and without it the sentinals are 9-A at best
unless we want the whole ******* verse to be tier 7C

 

[DTG499]

still wraith essance clearly empowers the person too and without it the sentinals are 9-A at best
unless we want the whole ******* verse to be tier 7C

The night sentinels use there own wraith energy.

Also no that’s not what is going to happen the night sentinels are the only ones going to be low 7-C and they were stated to be stomping the demons. They died in hell from lack of food/exhaustion or from the champion Titan.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

the champion titan came about eons after all of them died
also if they died of exhaustion or lack of food explain valen
"Lord Sash, the stalwart banner-sergeant, was found with his war standard pierced through the throat of a great beast, his body surrounded by the corpses of enemies. Roan the Mighty, the light faded from his eyes, had eviscerated such a multitude that their entrails clung to the black rocks like vines. Gor, relentless until the end, had broken his blade on the backs of his foes, and by the time he fell he had slain another two-score with his hands alone."
here is a page from a codex stateing how the sentinals died
by the hand of demons nothing more

 

[Sir_sun_man]

but at this point im just done arguming if you guys want low-7C sentinals sure i don't care at this point what ever, inconsistency issues be damned

 

[DTG499]

the champion titan came about eons after all of them died
also if they died of exhaustion or lack of food explain valen
"Lord Sash, the stalwart banner-sergeant, was found with his war standard pierced through the throat of a great beast, his body surrounded by the corpses of enemies. Roan the Mighty, the light faded from his eyes, had eviscerated such a multitude that their entrails clung to the black rocks like vines. Gor, relentless until the end, had broken his blade on the backs of his foes, and by the time he fell he had slain another two-score with his hands alone."
here is a page from a codex stateing how the sentinals died
by the hand of demons nothing more

That sounds like exhaustion to me and that wraith energy can be drained out from said exhaustion. My main point about the Night Sentinels scaling to the hell titans has still gone undisputed.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

I agree with DTG and mic,however I’d prefer if they were glass cannons rather than have them scale to their AP.I don’t think they could’ve necessarily taken full on blows from the barges

 

[DTG499]

I agree with DTG and mic,however I’d prefer if they were glass cannons rather than have them scale to their AP.I don’t think they could’ve necessarily taken full on blows from the barges

They can take hits from each other. I know your previous point about that was they held back when sparring. Let me ask you something, would you even consider something a warm up or even a basic activity if you were just using literally less than 0.0001% of your energy? Because that’s the gap between low 7-C and 9-A. Percentage wise, the energy I’m using to type this comment is greater than that.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

But maybe they engaged in duels in which both were capable of 1-shotting the other and were just of pure skill.

It’s just hard to believe even the mightiest of sentinels can take a hit from a Titan.

 

[DTG499]

But maybe they engaged in duels in which both were capable of 1-shotting the other and were just of pure skill.

It’s just hard to believe even the mightiest of sentinels can take a hit from a Titan.

That’s not how sparring works. If the night sentinels can dodge everything casually they wouldn’t need to train. And if the night sentinels are both relatively equal in skill they wouldn’t be just dodging everything their sparring partner would throw at them. If your sparring partner is hitting nothing but air neither of you are getting better from the training. If you can dodge everything thrown at you that also means you will always land your shots on the other person who can’t hit you.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Seems fair,but would this scale to post sentinel/pre divinity machine doomguy?

 

[DTG499]

Seems fair,but would this scale to post sentinel/pre divinity machine doomguy?

He was able to tank hits from them in their training sessions and fought along side them in their conquests against Hell so yes. Post night sentinel training doomguy low 7-C, the dreadnaught scales above them and would be at least low 7-C, post divinty machine doomguy scales above the dreadnaught by a big margin I’d say it’s safe to say 7-C for doomslayer. I know people are against tiering people based upon absorption but since all the absorption feats are low 7-C to 7-C I don’t see why we wouldn’t use them. And at least 7-C, likely higher for the doom eternal key for beating his stated equal the icon of sin.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Don’t forget the Titans should scale above the Ion cannon

 

[DTG499]

Don’t forget the Titans should scale above the Ion cannon

Would still be low 7-C

 

[DTG499]

Marauders should scale below the night sentinels physically but there weapons should scale above since they are amped with argent energy.
The super heavies should scale to the low 7-C BFG all be it slightly below because the tendrils can still one shot them. The current hell titans should be above the dreadnaught since hell is always improving the titans and all demons too.