-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Doom Eternal Revision Thread Part 3
- Thread starter Firestorm808
- Start date
- 5,554
- 2,329
What's the evidence that the storm in Urdak surrounded multiple planets and moons?
- 5,554
- 2,329
Can you link a clip of that?
- 3,898
- 541
Why are we lowballing doom so damn much?The storm most likely got cleared up after you murdered the icon of sin before the cutscene was shown.
- 3,898
- 541
Most of those arguments are based on assumptions that do no have any solid evidence in game.Meanwhile a 6-A Icon has a lot of evidence to support it.There is no reason to lowball the Icon of Sin.
- 7,897
- 3,857
The storm being created by the Icon is an assumption, a very good one but an assumption, trying to say the storm was planetary in size when the cutscene disproves it adds a shaky assumption on top of a good one which means it is easily debatable and prone to getting removed. Also, Explaining it away by saying the storm got cleared after the Icon died is false as the storm is clearly around after the Icon dies. Nobody is lowballing the Icon, we are preventing future headache and let downs.
- 7,897
- 3,857
Also, Urdak should be 4-A or 3-C in size at the very minium
- 3,898
- 541
I mean they reused the same model of Earth from the Intro with minimal change to save time.This proved as good as the game is,it's really buggy and missing a whole lot of features.So saying the storm was never that big to begin with wouldn't be right.
- 3,898
- 541
There are multiple planets and stars within the Urdak world.
- 7,897
- 3,857
@KieranH10
Yes, lots of them
@ThisThingisReallyBroken
We can't use that as an excuse when they made an entirely new cutscene shot of the Earth at the end of DE, showed Hell's corruption disappearing off the Earth's surface and changed the debris surrounding the planet. They showed what they wanted to with that cutscene and the storm being planetary wasn't on that list so we can't assume it was meant to be a planetary thing in the first place.
Yes, lots of them
@ThisThingisReallyBroken
We can't use that as an excuse when they made an entirely new cutscene shot of the Earth at the end of DE, showed Hell's corruption disappearing off the Earth's surface and changed the debris surrounding the planet. They showed what they wanted to with that cutscene and the storm being planetary wasn't on that list so we can't assume it was meant to be a planetary thing in the first place.
- 3,898
- 541
Removing simple colors from a planet is far easier than removing an entire storm slowly to ham-fist into the player's mouth how powerful the Icon was.The Icon is clearly intended to be much stronger than the current assumptions make him out to be.
Not to mention their animation budget was stretched out with the smooth glory kills already.
Not to mention their animation budget was stretched out with the smooth glory kills already.
- 7,897
- 3,857
Copy and pasting a storm to cover a planet and adding a fading affect to it is more simple than creating the ending shot they did and them clearly putting time into showing us what was happening to Earth (even moving the debris surrounding Earth). Icon being intended to be much stronger isn't evidence for the devs intending the storm on Earth to be planetary and nothing states it is unless you have some insider knowledge that proves otherwise. Using the animation budget or devs intent to conclude that a storm is planetary when you don't know the reasons behind them creating the cutscene the way the do isn't proof.
- 3,898
- 541
It isn't insider knowledge that the Icon is much more powerful than as assumed.That fact that he can suck the universe and absorb into hell's dimension and the quote of "causing total devastation on Earth" is evidence enough.Another quote supporting this is when Samuel states "the humans have no time left",meaning the destruction of Earth would happen rapidly rather then the course of a few days.He also caused a storm in Urdak,which would extend to Earth as well and should be higher than the BFG10k if the quote is anything to go by.
- 7,897
- 3,857
It isn't insider knowledge that the Icon is much more powerful than as assumed.
Not proof the Earth storm is planetary
That fact that he can suck the universe and absorb into hell's dimension and the quote of "causing total devastation on Earth" is evidence enough.
Not proof the Earth storm is planetary
nother quote supporting this is when Samuel states "the humans have no time left",meaning the destruction of Earth would happen rapidly rather then the course of a few days.
Not proof the Eath storm is planetary
He also caused a storm in Urdak,which would extend to Earth as well
Which we already mentioned and were discussing above. Also not proof the Earth storm is planetary.
should be higher than the BFG10k if the quote is anything to go by.
No he shouldn't, not with the current information.
If you can't provide proof then there is no need to discuss this any further.
Not proof the Earth storm is planetary
That fact that he can suck the universe and absorb into hell's dimension and the quote of "causing total devastation on Earth" is evidence enough.
Not proof the Earth storm is planetary
nother quote supporting this is when Samuel states "the humans have no time left",meaning the destruction of Earth would happen rapidly rather then the course of a few days.
Not proof the Eath storm is planetary
He also caused a storm in Urdak,which would extend to Earth as well
Which we already mentioned and were discussing above. Also not proof the Earth storm is planetary.
should be higher than the BFG10k if the quote is anything to go by.
No he shouldn't, not with the current information.
If you can't provide proof then there is no need to discuss this any further.
- 3,898
- 541
The storm should be at least planetary if it's covering both the entirety of Urdak (a small planet,probably similar to Earth) and a large portion of Earth.
Yes he should since Samuel clearly has prior knowledge of what the Icon of Sin is capable of and knows what would work on him and what would not.The game heavily suggests him being the seraphim with the doomslayer being greeted as such when he entered the room filled with the makyrs and with Vega having the Father's consciousness.Since the Makyrs can see multiple timelines and their outcomes,it's pretty sold evidence that Samuel knows that the BFG10k would not work in him. Furthermore Earth is nigh completely destroyed,with large legions within the Earth,25% of the populous gone(More time has passed since the 60% loss of life statistic has been given,the arc fell,most of humanity remaining on Phobos or the cryogenic pod in space),and the atmosphere poisoned by the gore nests around the world.So to prevent the COMPLETE destruction of the universe,he would likely use the BFG10k as he has the resources to rebuild another pod and have another BFG placed on standby in case of this scenario if the Icon did not scale to the BFG10k.FTL ships have already been created,so there is no reason why they wouldn't find another planet that does not have a poisoned atmosphere and large lava legions engraved into planet's surface.Instead he stated the slayer was the only one with enough power to put the icon down.
No,he doesn't mean resurrection.All resurrections of the Icon of Sin have been much less powerful than the Icon of Sin shown within eternal.If the BFG really didn't scale to the Icon,then it Samuel would have simply blown the Icon to bits,and have the doomslayer kill the weaker Icon of sin regenerating from its wounds to have less risk of the doomslayer failing.However,despite the ludicrous amount of resources and a now cleared phobos base(all hell portals should be closed with the death of the priests),he does not do so.
So yeah,the Icon scales the the BFG10k.
Yes he should since Samuel clearly has prior knowledge of what the Icon of Sin is capable of and knows what would work on him and what would not.The game heavily suggests him being the seraphim with the doomslayer being greeted as such when he entered the room filled with the makyrs and with Vega having the Father's consciousness.Since the Makyrs can see multiple timelines and their outcomes,it's pretty sold evidence that Samuel knows that the BFG10k would not work in him. Furthermore Earth is nigh completely destroyed,with large legions within the Earth,25% of the populous gone(More time has passed since the 60% loss of life statistic has been given,the arc fell,most of humanity remaining on Phobos or the cryogenic pod in space),and the atmosphere poisoned by the gore nests around the world.So to prevent the COMPLETE destruction of the universe,he would likely use the BFG10k as he has the resources to rebuild another pod and have another BFG placed on standby in case of this scenario if the Icon did not scale to the BFG10k.FTL ships have already been created,so there is no reason why they wouldn't find another planet that does not have a poisoned atmosphere and large lava legions engraved into planet's surface.Instead he stated the slayer was the only one with enough power to put the icon down.
No,he doesn't mean resurrection.All resurrections of the Icon of Sin have been much less powerful than the Icon of Sin shown within eternal.If the BFG really didn't scale to the Icon,then it Samuel would have simply blown the Icon to bits,and have the doomslayer kill the weaker Icon of sin regenerating from its wounds to have less risk of the doomslayer failing.However,despite the ludicrous amount of resources and a now cleared phobos base(all hell portals should be closed with the death of the priests),he does not do so.
So yeah,the Icon scales the the BFG10k.
- 7,897
- 3,857
Yea, I'm not convinced but good luck getting that accepted with that reasoning. Also, the storm on Urdak and Earth aren't connected as they are separated entirely by dimensions. One is outside of time and space and the other on Earth.
- 3,898
- 541
So an interdimensional storm?
- 828
- 468
Also isn't the storm a passive effect that just happens when Icon shows up somewhere, much like his reality warping powers? If so, then it shouldn't scale to his AP (at least, not to the AP that the Slayer scales to), and he should just get passive Weather Manipulation with planetary range.
- 2
- 1
so what tier is slayer?
- 2,619
- 544
It's defiantly the icon dying that made to storm go away completely. We can see earth from doom slayer base during the whole campaign we don't see the storm go away over time it's still there the entire game. There isn't any visual proof that DG killing the demons on earth is over time is what made the storm go away. All we know from the cutscene is that as soon as the icon died the storm went away. And your reasonings for why you're against that are just "would be" assumptions about the design process the devs went through.
- 7,897
- 3,857
Except the storm literally doesn't go away when the Icon dies. Doomguy is literally in the epiccenter of it all and the storm where he is at is still going strong and the Icon is dead right in front of him. What are you guys even talking about?
- 7,897
- 3,857
It does but there are disagreements about the scale of the storm on Earth, which I don't understand why that storm is getting focused on in the first place when the one on Urdak has visibly superior range.
- 2,619
- 544
Firestorm808 said:
What are You talking about?
Let's just go over one more time what we know for sure. When the icon of sin got unleashed a storm was made on urdak. When the icon of sin died the storm went away, just because it didn't dissipate on immediately doesn't prove that he wasn't the cause of it. We know the storm is an immediate reaction but not an immediate dissipation as shown on urdak because the icon left the entire dimension as soon as he made the storm and it was still there the whole time.
- 7,897
- 3,857
Yeah, the storm totally went away when the Icon died and the cutscene I linked is totally wrong.Dienomite22 said:
- 7,897
- 3,857
@DTG
The oribital shot shown through the portal leading to Earth from Urdak doesn't show a planetary storm either, even though the Icon is alive and on Earth at that time.
@Kieran
Mixed
The oribital shot shown through the portal leading to Earth from Urdak doesn't show a planetary storm either, even though the Icon is alive and on Earth at that time.
@Kieran
Mixed
- 2,619
- 544
@kireanH10
I try not to respond with sarcasm in text chat that's how things get derailed and I especially don't respond to another sarcastic remark with sarcasm.
@dienomite22
Ok, let's look at it from this perspective. We all agree that the icon creates storms and that there was a storm before he arrived on earth. So how ever you look at it, that specific view of earth from urdak would be wrong. We do see the storm before the game starts from the orbital view and at the end of the game we see the same view but with the storm gone. You dispute it with 2 points, the first one was the dissipation happened over the course of the game from getting rid of the demonic presence. However, we don't have any proof that the demonic presence is the one that makes the storms that quickly as the icon, the icon took seconds the demonic presence took months. Second point, the storm never went away as shown in the game, for that one you just need to look at my previous point. So within the context of the fact that the icon can undisputedly create storms and the fact that we see the storm gone in the end cutscene leads us to one conclusion.
I try not to respond with sarcasm in text chat that's how things get derailed and I especially don't respond to another sarcastic remark with sarcasm.
@dienomite22
Ok, let's look at it from this perspective. We all agree that the icon creates storms and that there was a storm before he arrived on earth. So how ever you look at it, that specific view of earth from urdak would be wrong. We do see the storm before the game starts from the orbital view and at the end of the game we see the same view but with the storm gone. You dispute it with 2 points, the first one was the dissipation happened over the course of the game from getting rid of the demonic presence. However, we don't have any proof that the demonic presence is the one that makes the storms that quickly as the icon, the icon took seconds the demonic presence took months. Second point, the storm never went away as shown in the game, for that one you just need to look at my previous point. So within the context of the fact that the icon can undisputedly create storms and the fact that we see the storm gone in the end cutscene leads us to one conclusion.
