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DOOM Demons Upgrade

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KieranH10

KieranH10

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Aight, just a little thing. There's a new calc that has been accepted. I just wanna discuss the scaling and how it should be applied...
New calc is here.

My current proposal is that All demons will be at least 9-A (Even the likes of Zombies and such), Zombies have a 9-B+ calc in that blog, and shouldn't be immensely weaker than others. These would simply be anything weaker than a Carcass. (Which isn't a lot)

Any demon stronger than a Carcass will be 8-C, since they have an 8-C calc... Pretty simple... (Carcasses are pretty weak demons physically, so this would be the vast majority of demons)

That's about it...

Just gonna leave where we are here:
Reboot Demons Scaling: Agreed
Original Demons Scaling: Needs Discussing
Weapons Scaling: Discussing
 
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So essentially the likes of Zombies, Imps, Lost Souls, Soldiers, and others on this level will be upgraded to 9-A

Anything stronger than a Carcass will be upgraded to 8-C

Seem good?
 
Actually, more importantly, would this backscale to Classic Doom? Cause there's a fair bit of anti-feats there, such as more traditional weaponry and small explosions.
 
KieranH10 said:
Soldiers, and others on this level will be upgraded to 9-A
Click to expand...
They scale to 0.07 tons right? Or is it less?
Armorchompy said:
Actually, more importantly, would this backscale to Classic Doom? Cause there's a fair bit of anti-feats there, such as more traditional weaponry and small explosions.
Click to expand...
last I remember the lore states that demons have become significantly stronger than the classic demons in 2016, and became even stronger in eternal along with the Slayer.
 
Alright, that's good, can't think of anything countering this upgrade then.
 
Actually, something that is worth debating is, what weapons scale to what demons? I don't think the pistol should scale to anything above 9-A, for example.
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
They scale to 0.07 tons right? Or is it less?
Click to expand...
The 9-B+ calc gets to 11 Megajoules. (Around 0.003 Tons), But most demons will upscale from it pretty significantly since, well, they're zombies... Perhaps Zombies would just be 9-B+, which isn't a huge issue.

ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
last I remember the lore states that demons have become significantly stronger than the classic demons in 2016, and became even stronger in eternal along with the Slayer.
Click to expand...
This is actually a pretty good point, I hadn't thought of this yet tbh... Iirc Classic Demons still scale to modern counterparts in some way or another through the chains tho. But I'd have to check.
 
@Armorchompy


I mean tbh piercing damage is a thing, maybe something that could pierce 9-A flesh should also be capable of piercing 8-C flesh on a much lower scale no?

if not,the obvious fodder weapons like your standard shotty,machine gun,pistol wouldn’t scale to the higher ups.
 
Yes, we'd also have to draw a line between what weapons scale to what.

Obviously stuff like the SSG will likely scale to 8-C

I made a Plasma Rifle Microwave Beam calc a while back which got to 9-A, but did rely on heat based stuff, but it's normal attacks could still potentially scale to the Microwave Beam, and aren't heat based.

Pistol can one shot basic Zombies with a headshot in 2016, so they at least scale above this.
Literally every weapon should scale above a Pistol
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
@Armorchompy


I mean tbh piercing damage is a thing, maybe something that could pierce 9-A flesh should also be capable of piercing 8-C flesh on a much lower scale no?

if not,the obvious fodder weapons like your standard shotty,machine gun,pistol wouldn’t scale to the higher ups.
Click to expand...
9-C piercing damage can barely affect 9-B+ tho
 
Yes but it’s obvious these guns are far,far stronger than their irl counterparts.

Even in the classic games (as somehow a 9-C+ pistol can tear down a 25 megajoule demon (Revenant) in a good amount of well place shots).

Something that can pierce 9-A flesh should be barely able to pierce 8-C
flesh.As is the case with 9-C vs 9-B+.
 
Any heavy duty weapons that can do major harm to even mid level demons in a couple of shots (Rocket Launcher, Gauss Cannon, Ballista and such) will likely get to 8-C.

I'd personally probably draw the line between 9-A and 8-C at the Chaingun, yes, the Chaingun is a very strong weapon in-game, but it relies on it's rate of fire to achieve this.

So anything stronger than a Chaingun would be 8-C, the Chaingun and anything lower would be 9-A
 
So what would Doomguy look like, 9-A, 8-C with Berserk with 9-C+ to 8-C weaponry and 8-C durability? That feels kinda weird
 
I'd say Weaponry should be 9-A at least.

The pistol can destroy the heads of basic zombies, who scale to 9-B+

I don't think Piercing damage needs to be taken into account in this regard personally, Doom doesn't really treat it as such. A simple tier for weaponry should be fine imo.
 
I suppose that makes sense, but if we do find evidence of demons being stronger in the reboot games we should leave Classic Doomguy as is.
 
Just towards the top afaik. And since the Pistol can one-shot the Zombies, and other demons can survive shots from it relatively easily, they should upscale.
 
Also, while i'm here actually...

I was thinking about the Microwave Beam calc. Up until a couple weeks ago I was pretty certain it wouldn't go anywhere since it was a Heat Based attack. But when I've recently played the games again to get the stuff for the calcs. I realised that the Microwave Beam actually fragments demons bodies while it's heating them up. So there's a chance it's not fully Heat Based.
I'm not sure if it would justify using it as an actual tier for the Microwave Beam but it's just something I thought about. Either way it very likely still scales to the Plasma Rifles regular shots due to it being the same gun...
 
@KieranH10

Sorry about how the previous Doom Thread turned out. We were doing too many things at once. Moving forward, we'll try to be more organized.

Anyway, this seems to be okay for the Demons.
 
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It's fine for selective demons to scale from their own feats, as well as demons stronger than them. But I'm usually uneasy about downscaling the fodder zombies who are supposed to be weaker unless the difference is literally like a hair. Also regarding the calculation methods, I think fragmentation values are more reliable than the V. Frag values. The 9-B+ calculation is good and there are some other 9-A calculations. But the "They aren't too much weaker than demons" needs more context.
 
Violent Fragmentation is supposed to be two inches at best for the remains I believe.
 
@Firestorm lol no need to be sorry, there was just a lot going on.

@Dark That's fair, I also believe Zombies are fine staying at 9-B+. However do you think that the likes of Possessed Soldiers and Imps scale high enough to get into 9-A?
The scaling is as follows Zombies < Pistol (One shot Zombies) < Imps & Soldiers (Can withstand multiple shots from pistol)

As for the Calculation being Frag vs violent frag, I'll see if I can record a video of the feats, I was going to do so originally anyways but never got round to it due to some time constraint I had at the time. FupDumpTheGump seems to be correct though as the chunks are very small.

@Jakub The floors seemed to be completely fine until the demons crashed through them. There was no evidence of any damage beforehand from what we see afaik.
 
Is the Doom pistol in Eternal even stronger than the 2016 counterpart? I know Doomguy's weapons do have supernatural enhancements in the form of argent energy and thus won't share the same limitations as ordinary bullets made of lead and the like; as all firearms made of real world materials should be judged exclusively from their own calcs, feats, scientific properties. But for weaker weapons, even stuff like Doom pistols might share limitation to avoid loopholes. 4 megawatts was a solid statement for Doom 2016's pistol. Plus, pistols also have penetration when striking targets larger than them. A 4 megajoule bullet could still harm human sized characters up to 9-A durability roughly. I'm fine with enemies significantly stronger than Zombies being baselinish 9-A though.

Also, I commented on the blog statements.
 
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