Project zomboid Upgrade.

[rydernew]

Zombies and the Player at the moment are at least 9-C, possibly 9-B. Although this is strange, since walkers can bite through a bulletproof vest with their teeth or scratch their hands through it and the player can survive the pipe bomb explosion, and it can even cause damage to walls (03m39s). But it doesn't matter, since I found more valid feats.

A single zombie can destroy wooden door (likely fragmentation because we can see the wood remain after destruction).



A single zombie can destroy a metal door (Only the door handle remain, seems like pulverization, although fragments of the door can be heard falling to the ground).



Two zombies can destroy an armory door (Only the hinges and the door handle remain, although fragments of the door can be heard falling to the ground).



Two zombies can destroy garage door (Same situation of destruction like with others).



Two zombies can destroy metal bar door in prison (Only the hinges and the door handle remain, although fragments of the door can be heard falling to the ground).



Two zombies can destroy metal wall which the player built (Same type of destruction).

https://imgur.com/a/2yIuWGU

The player can easily deal with zombies, so he can be equal to them, since zombies can also injure him.

So I think the PZ verse can be just 9-B.

And now speed.
Runners can run at 30 miles per hour, or at least stay
a little bit away from a car that travels at that speed.

https://youtu.be/3EOH82360Yk?si=6fvmtJIzCMpcP-Mh

The Player easily can outran runners so the player can be superhuman in speed as well.

https://youtu.be/lACy7gKW5-E?si=qbM5ferUjzTxhY1-

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It takes zombies many strikes to destroy doors, and it is inconsistent- there have been zombies beating on a single door for literally months without breaking it down. It should also be known that these metal doors drop full metal plates- they implicitly seem to just knock them off their hinges rather than literally fragmenting it. Because of the great inconsistency and number of hits required to achieve it make it a very unsteady feat, in my view.

It should also be known that player built constructions have variable health dependent on their skills and talents.

With no calcs provided and no apparent recognition of any of these facts, I don't see why we would arbitrarily place them at 9-B.

The car speed is probably just straight up lower, I've calculated maximum sprinting speed here.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I can substantiate that "months of banging on a door won't destroy it" thing, by the way. That save ran to January, he was still there iirc, I just stopped taking pictures of it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(would also like to point out that the truck video is A. attempting to showcase the zombies and is thus not trying to actually move away from them, as indicated by the audible starting and restarting of 1st gear, B. very much not going to show a truck going 0-30 instantly, and C. quite laggy.

 

[rydernew]

I can substantiate that "months of banging on a door won't destroy it" thing, by the way. That save ran to January, he was still there iirc, I just stopped taking pictures of it.

Because the game does not load the entire map. It downloads only individual blocks of locations. It has the same principle as in Minecraft.

 

[rydernew]

Although we still have pipe bombs even if you don’t agree with zombies which can destroy doors. Pipe bombs can destroy concrete walls and pulverize tables, several metal boxes, several barrels and even metal doors and garage doors. If you need a video, I'll show it to you soon.

 

[rydernew]

It takes zombies many strikes to destroy doors, and it is inconsistent- there have been zombies beating on a single door for literally months without breaking it down. It should also be known that these metal doors drop full metal plates- they implicitly seem to just knock them off their hinges rather than literally fragmenting it. Because of the great inconsistency and number of hits required to achieve it make it a very unsteady feat, in my view.

It should also be known that player built constructions have variable health dependent on their skills and talents.

With no calcs provided and no apparent recognition of any of these facts, I don't see why we would arbitrarily place them at 9-B.

The car speed is probably just straight up lower, I've calculated maximum sprinting speed here.

Also in project zomboid 1 tile = 1 meter, so there is no need for pixel scaling to find the distance the player moved. And I don't understand why you decided that a car in which the speedometer shows the current speed in mph does not travel at such a speed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Because the game does not load the entire map. It downloads only individual blocks of locations. It has the same principle as in Minecraft.

To be clear, I lived in that cell for the duration of time. Zombies can occasionally continuously beat on doors and never once manage to unhinge it.

Although we still have pipe bombs even if you don’t agree with zombies which can destroy doors. Pipe bombs can destroy concrete walls and pulverize tables, several metal boxes, several barrels and even metal doors and garage doors. If you need a video, I'll show it to you soon.

Bombs almost universally **** the player, the only one that doesn't is the one that instead mostly spreads flame. I've discussed this in prior CRTs, in particular the last downgrade that removed that: it's a contrivance of the game's mechanics. Also... no they can't? Players can't build concrete walls (and only player walls can be destroyed by traditional means, outside of fire and sledgehammers). Also, where are you getting "pulverize" from?

Also in project zomboid 1 tile = 1 meter, so there is no need for pixel scaling to find the distance the player moved. And I don't understand why you decided that a car in which the speedometer shows the current speed in mph does not travel at such a speed.

...You need to pixel scale. The speedometer of the vehicle flares up even while it is achieving that speed- it is in the process of doing so, it does not reach it immediately. You could easily prove that the car is not moving 30 mph by actually calculating its speed there.

 

[rydernew]

To be clear, I lived in that cell for the duration of time. Zombies can occasionally continuously beat on doors and never once manage to unhinge it.


Bombs almost universally **** the player, the only one that doesn't is the one that instead mostly spreads flame. I've discussed this in prior CRTs, in particular the last downgrade that removed that: it's a contrivance of the game's mechanics. Also... no they can't? Players can't build concrete walls (and only player walls can be destroyed by traditional means, outside of fire and sledgehammers). Also, where are you getting "pulverize" from?


...You need to pixel scale. The speedometer of the vehicle flares up even while it is achieving that speed- it is in the process of doing so, it does not reach it immediately. You could easily prove that the car is not moving 30 mph by actually calculating its speed there.

You weren't close enough then, because I've already demonstrated to you in several examples that zombies can break down doors and it doesn't matter if they're one or two, they break them anyway.

You don't need to, I already said that 1 pile = 1 meter. There are cases when the bullet also does not fly at the same speed as usual, but people use the standard value of the bullet speed to scale character's movement.

Zombies and the Player can tank these pipe bomb close up and the player can kill zombies with stepping on their head. You misunderstood me, pipe bomb can destroy a wall, but not completely, but strongly enough so that the player and the zombies can climb through it. After the explosion of the objects that I have listed to you, there is only powder and nothing more, so it can be called pulverization. I can send you a clip, but later.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not saying zombies can't, I'm saying it is inconsistent. I've played the game for over 1,000 hours, I know they can break doors (although they normally require multiple zombies to do so, especially in any timely manner).

Yes, you do. You need to scale how far things are, especially in the warped position of isometric perspectives. You could use the length of a tile as a scaling point, I suppose, but it wouldn't really change the calc.

Are you talking about fires damaging the walls?

 

[rydernew]

I'm not saying zombies can't, I'm saying it is inconsistent. I've played the game for over 1,000 hours, I know they can break doors (although they normally require multiple zombies to do so, especially in any timely manner).

Yes, you do. You need to scale how far things are, especially in the warped position of isometric perspectives. You could use the length of a tile as a scaling point, I suppose, but it wouldn't really change the calc.

Are you talking about fires damaging the walls?

I've also been playing zomboid for a very long time, but less than 1000 hours, but I've even known the entire map of the game and the behavior of zombies for a long time. Like I said, you were just far away from loading chunks and the zombies didn't load. Because my friend and I checked several times in a row and one zombie is able to demolish the door. Oh, I also just noticed there's a kitchen door, and it's metal, probably stronger than the door of the police station.

Also, the strength of your zombies could be "weak", not average or strong.


Okay, you disagree with me, and I disagree with you, there's no point in continuing to talk about speed.


Not fire, literally after explosion wall can be destroyed instantly. Same thing with barrels, boxes and etc.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think you're understanding my position. I thought I had explained it well enough, but I will try again: my contention is not that they cannot knock a door down, but rather that they cannot do so consistently.

I play on Superhuman strength zombies.

Well, sure, I guess. Your position is objectively wrong, on that one, though. The calc proves it.

Right, but the aesthetic you're describing is walls becoming burnt out, yes? Something like this or this.

 

[Rayfire]

Haven’t played the game before (Though I’ve certainly heard of it many times) but in the first video a single zombie takes ages just to break a simple door down. They can’t do it in one shot like AP requires. Bambu also says it usually takes them months to do that by themselves apparently, let alone all the metal ones.

Bullet-proof vests aren’t really bullet-proof either, they just make the impact of a bullet slightly less impactful which MIGHT prevent some damage, but bullets will still get through them 99% of the time, so saying that zombies can bite through bullet-proof vests also doesn’t really convince me. I disagree with the AP changes overall

I’m kinda neutral on the speed mainly because bambu also apparently has a calc that contradicts the whole speedometer thing I believe, although that could change

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Haven’t played the game before (Though I’ve certainly heard of it many times) but in the first video a single zombie takes ages just to break a simple door down. They can’t do it in one shot like AP requires. Bambu also says it usually takes them months to do that by themselves apparently, let alone all the metal ones.

Bullet-proof vests aren’t really bullet-proof either, they just make the impact of a bullet slightly less impactful which MIGHT prevent some damage, but bullets will still get through them 99% of the time, so saying that zombies can bite through bullet-proof vests also doesn’t really convince me. I disagree with the AP changes overall

I’m kinda neutral on the speed mainly because bambu also apparently has a calc that contradicts the whole speedometer thing I believe, although that could change

I wouldn't say "usually", the zombie I photographed doing so (I named him Henry) just... couldn't. It didn't take him months, he just simply couldn't do it. I'd leave render range occasionally, but I lived near that building, he was definitely actively doing it and in fact was the only zombie I ever saw in that cell for a couple months after I cleared it out.

The calc for speed is here, uses video to get a distance moved and counts the exact number of frames necessary to move that distance. The isometric perspective may skew it some, maybe enough for Athletic Human (which is why the calc only proposed to downgrade them to that rather than the calculated Average Human), but certainly not enough that characters are going 30 mph. You cannot find any video that shows a character going 30 mph on foot, it simply isn't a truthful representation of the game.

 

[rydernew]

I don't think you're understanding my position. I thought I had explained it well enough, but I will try again: my contention is not that they cannot knock a door down, but rather that they cannot do so consistently.

I play on Superhuman strength zombies.

Well, sure, I guess. Your position is objectively wrong, on that one, though. The calc proves it.

Right, but the aesthetic you're describing is walls becoming burnt out, yes? Something like this or this.

I understood your position, I agree.

Still, you found the distance through pixel scaling while 1 pile = 1 meter. So you got a distance less than it actually is.

Yes, but objects don't burn up from fire, as you might think, but literally destroys them after explosion instantly. I'll send you some videos, but later.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean.

If anything, if these tiles are exactly 1 meter wide (which I don't think is stated in the game anywhere, curious where you got it, if you could provide that intel), that fence isn't 30 tiles wide. So if anything... the value is higher, my dude.

If you like

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(for the record, I have that save where I made the video still, that particular fence is 28 tiles long- so it would be shorter, and thus less speed, if each tile were indeed exactly 1 meter).

 

[Rayfire]

I wouldn't say "usually", the zombie I photographed doing so (I named him Henry) just... couldn't. It didn't take him months, he just simply couldn't do it. I'd leave render range occasionally, but I lived near that building, he was definitely actively doing it and in fact was the only zombie I ever saw in that cell for a couple months after I cleared it out.

The calc for speed is here, uses video to get a distance moved and counts the exact number of frames necessary to move that distance. The isometric perspective may skew it some, maybe enough for Athletic Human (which is why the calc only proposed to downgrade them to that rather than the calculated Average Human), but certainly not enough that characters are going 30 mph. You cannot find any video that shows a character going 30 mph on foot, it simply isn't a truthful representation of the game.

Okay, makes sense. I suppose I’ll settle on disagreeing with the changes for now

 

[rydernew]

(for the record, I have that save where I made the video still, that particular fence is 28 tiles long- so it would be shorter, and thus less speed, if each tile were indeed exactly 1 meter).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right, so as mentioned this is fire damage, which is what I thought you were getting at.

The main damage from a pipe bomb dealt is fire, resulting in a burn (normally you get a scratch or two as well but the thing mainly killing you is the burn). The explosions in zomboid aren't generally dealing shitloads of blunt force trauma to the individual, but rather just dealing x fire to everything, structures included, causing them not to pulverize, but to burn down.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(It is also very inconsistent what something "burned" looks like, mind you: do this on a fence, and you'll still have most of the fence, and all walls are reduced to the same apparent material, these are contrivances of the game dealing with an as-of-yet unfinished fire spreading system).

 

[rydernew]

Right, so as mentioned this is fire damage, which is what I thought you were getting at.

The main damage from a pipe bomb dealt is fire, resulting in a burn (normally you get a scratch or two as well but the thing mainly killing you is the burn). The explosions in zomboid aren't generally dealing shitloads of blunt force trauma to the individual, but rather just dealing x fire to everything, structures included, causing them not to pulverize, but to burn down.

What do you mean burned down? Are you saying that they burned down immediately after the explosion? This is blunt damage and the powder appeared immediately after the explosion. So you can't say that the objects burned down when they were destroyed instantly.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, but they did, that is literally exactly what happened. It's all game mechanics, sure, but objects have a distinctly different appearance when destroyed by "blunt force damage": to evoke the example of the fence again, if you beat the hell out of a fence (or if a zombie does, of course), it shows the crumpled remains of it on the ground. This is not what is shown for the pipe bomb, because it isn't being blown away or whatever, it's just suffering a large amount of fire damage all at once, causing it to char.

The ashes are the result of literally anything being burned that doesn't have a unique sprite for that.

 

[rydernew]

No, but they did, that is literally exactly what happened. It's all game mechanics, sure, but objects have a distinctly different appearance when destroyed by "blunt force damage": to evoke the example of the fence again, if you beat the hell out of a fence (or if a zombie does, of course), it shows the crumpled remains of it on the ground. This is not what is shown for the pipe bomb, because it isn't being blown away or whatever, it's just suffering a large amount of fire damage all at once, causing it to char.

The ashes are the result of literally anything being burned that doesn't have a unique sprite for that.

Well, even if we assume that it is fire, this fire can INSTANTLY destroy objects and turn them into dust immediately after the explosion. After the explosion, the player can get a maximum of one burn and more scratches with bleeding and deep wounds, so blunt damage is also present and the shock wave can cause damage to concrete walls.
Sorry, but saying character is just street lvl, who can with one step kill zombie who can survive pipe bomb which can demonstrate a lot of damage is crazy.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's not even really an assumption. The game mechanically shows a difference between the two, it does have some physical element of the bomb but practically all of it is fire damage, evidenced by the damaged terrain being destroyed by fire rather than melee damage (again, fence). I already acknowledged the melee damage, as well. The concrete walls get burned away, too, that's just game mechanics.

The head stomping argument is really weird to mention now, but it ought to be noted that A. these are decayed skulls and B. it frequently requires more than one stomp (due to criticals being the main source of damage you achieve in the game, I figure). And like... normal people in real life survive pipe bombs. Off the cuff, this story comes to mind- an old woman survived it point blank. This isn't to dismiss your position, but rather the insult that it would be "crazy" to maintain the position I do: there is a consistent attempt to overestimate Zomboid content and I don't really understand it at all.

 

[rydernew]

It's not even really an assumption. The game mechanically shows a difference between the two, it does have some physical element of the bomb but practically all of it is fire damage, evidenced by the damaged terrain being destroyed by fire rather than melee damage (again, fence). I already acknowledged the melee damage, as well. The concrete walls get burned away, too, that's just game mechanics.

The head stomping argument is really weird to mention now, but it ought to be noted that A. these are decayed skulls and B. it frequently requires more than one stomp (due to criticals being the main source of damage you achieve in the game, I figure). And like... normal people in real life survive pipe bombs. Off the cuff, this story comes to mind- an old woman survived it point blank. This isn't to dismiss your position, but rather the insult that it would be "crazy" to maintain the position I do: there is a consistent attempt to overestimate Zomboid content and I don't really understand it at all.

I see, We just can't come to the same conclusion, I've noticed it more than once. 8
Even with the condition that it is a fire that does so much damage to destroy 10 barrels per second, you are not satisfied.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well. Yeah. Obviously.

If this isn't a blast as normal, and they're primarily tanking fire, then it sorta scuffs up the idea of 9-B for them outright. The current rating of "possibly 9-B" covers this adequately with frankly more concrete proof (that is, scaling to zombies ripping up bulletproof vests- admittedly it assumes steel plating, which is uncommon, but it's still better than this).

The page already lists explosives as being 9-B in general, but they wouldn't actually require 9-B dura to survive, much less given the considerations discussed in this thread about how they actually work.