Does this confirm that genjutsu works on non-chakra characters?

[Zerzavyx98]

"kaguya inslaved the world in genjutsu before chakra and a chakra network existed."

I mean, its correct isn't it? Kaguya used IT on people who didn't even have chakra yet and it worked fine.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Is it confirmed that civilians have no chakra? Or is it possible they just don't have developed enough chakra coils to make use of it?

Chakra did spread throughout the world after all.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, unlike Nasuverse (where it was stated that everybody posses Magic Circuits => Od), Narutoverse is more vague about it.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Case and point, Rock Lee.

He has no ability to use chakra and therefore use jutsus, but using the gates blasts the user's chakra out, amping physical stats and allowing usage of techniques otherwise one cannot use.

Also, samurai use chakra, while they don't use jutsus so that's another thing.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Key point: before Kaguya, there was no chakra. She is the reason as to why chakra spread. She used IT on people who didn't have chakra yet... the people AFTER all of those events gained the ability to use and have chakra though.

 

[KamiYasha]

The Genjutsu (Aside from Infinite Tsukuyomi) only affects people with Chakra Newtwork.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is the only one capable of avoid that requirement.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

^ This.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

The Genjutsu (Aside from Infinite Tsukuyomi) only affects people with Chakra Newtwork.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is the only one capable of avoid that requirement.

but both attacks are genjutsu..

what makes a Tsukiyomi different from Infinite Tsukuyomi? Nothing except the fact that IT is used for a large scale and goes on infinitely

"Itachi approached Izumi and placed her in an extremely powerful Tsukuyomi where she lived the entirety of her life in 0.000000001/th of a second. In her dream, she became a chüni, retired from shinobi life to become Itachi's wife and raise their children, and lived to become eighty years old before dying of old age alongside Itachi. Because her mind was departed from reality in such a manner, Izumi collapsed into Itachi's arms dying. Izumi thanked Itachi for giving her the life she wanted with him, even if it was a dream, and Itachi thanked her for loving him as she passed away peacefully."

Tsukuyomi does some critical damage and the user has control of what dream to give the victim just like Infinite Tsukuyomi.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The Genjutsu (Aside from Infinite Tsukuyomi) only affects people with Chakra Newtwork.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is the only one capable of avoid that requirement.

^

This right here, the entire basis of genjutsu is to create illussions that controls the senses by controlling the chakra flow of a target's cerebral nervous system.Which is why genjustsu can be disrupted by a jinchuriki because their beast can give their chakra a jolt and it breaks it.Infinite tsukuyomi is special as it worked on people before they even had chakra.

 

[Reppuzan]

Well, there's the fact that Izumi was a kunoichi and thus had chakra, so that renders your point moot.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is the only genjutsu that is said to encompass the entire world and thus ignores that one flaw. As the sole exception to the rule, it should not be used as a benchmark for the rest (and can also be considered bad writing imo due to the fact that Kishimoto is ignoring his own established ground rules).

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work fundamentally differently than other Genjutsu. It's literally just a larger scale version of that Genjutsu Madara used on Obito in the flashback. So yeah Genjutsu is proven to work on people without chakra because Kaguya used it on people before they had chakra.

Genjutsu is also shown to work on animals when Hagoromo was specifically only said to have spread chakra to humanity.

 

[Gemmysaur]

This thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I'm all for closing it.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm for it. It's just back and forth with the same arguments.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work fundamentally differently than other Genjutsu. It's literally just a larger scale version of that Genjutsu Madara used on Obito in the flashback. So yeah Genjutsu is proven to work on people without chakra because Kaguya used it on people before they had chakra.
Genjutsu is also shown to work on animals when Hagoromo was specifically only said to have spread chakra to humanity.

Valar has it down. The point of my reply wasn't to prove how Izumi had no chakra. It was to prove that Infinite Tsukiyomi is just Tsukiyomi on a larger scale.

Idk if this will say much but a statement from Jiraya vs a statement from a god, I'd rather take it from the all-knowing god. Hagoromo is the one who created ninshu anyways, so he must know how chakra works the best.

TBH I don't know why people still rely on early canon statements even when they're proven wrong later on in the series. Why is it an outlier that a MUCH higher level character disproved something from an inexperienced character?

 

[Zensum]

IT is classified as a genjutsu. Nothing was stated to be diffrent about it mechanic wise other than the fact it was coming from kaguya. if it wasnt genjutsu kishi would have said this. All genjutsu fundimentally works the same despite strength and range

 

[Zerzavyx98]

IT is classified as a genjutsu. Nothing was stated to be diffrent about it mechanic wise other than the fact it was coming from kaguya. if it wasnt genjutsu kishi would have said this. All genjutsu fundimentally works the same despite strength and range

Are you agreeing that genjutsu works on people who dont have chakra?

 

[Zensum]

IT is classified as a genjutsu. Nothing was stated to be diffrent about it mechanic wise other than the fact it was coming from kaguya. if it wasnt genjutsu kishi would have said this. All genjutsu fundimentally works the same despite strength and range

Are you agreeing that genjutsu works on people who dont have chakra?

Yes I think the quote in Op came from me lml