Does a Kienzan (destructo disk) ignore durability?

[Jeune_fou]

Hello, I'd like to hear your opinion about the kienzan. Would you say it ignores durability no matter who is touched by it (as long as the targeted character doesn't dodge)?

When we think about it, we have no proof it doesn't ingnores durability: each time it touched the opponent (or the user himself when Frieza used it) he lost a part of his body (or was cutted in half when Frieza accidentally cutted himself with his own kienzan). Even when differences of powers were enormous (according to Vegeta, Nappa would be dead if he didn't dodge). And Krillin managed to cut Frieza's tail even if Frieza was easily dozens of time stronger than him.

Also, the scene where Cell wasn't affected by the kienzan is anime only.

 

[Alexcar3000]

We don't know for sure, but we can at least say it let's you damage opponents that are stronger than you to a certain degree, because saying that it can cut trough anybody sounds like a NLF.

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

To an extent it does because Krillin was able to cut off Second Form Frieza's tail with it despite the fact that his power level was only around Zarbon/Dodoria level.

 

[Unclechairman]

"Also, the scene where Cell wasn't affected by the kienzan is anime only."

Did it occur in Kai? I think I remember it occuring in Kai. If it did, we should account for it. In fact, we should honestly account for it anyway, because it's helpful in demonstrating that the technique has it's limits (aside from the disks being inaccurate).

 

[Jeune_fou]

"Also, the scene where Cell wasn't affected by the kienzan is anime only."
Did it occur in Kai? I think I remember it occuring in Kai. If it did, we should account for it. In fact, we should honestly account for it anyway, because it's helpful in demonstrating that the technique has it's limits (aside from the disks being inaccurate).

yes it occured in kai. Kai follows the manga more strictly (episodes are shorter and there are no filler). However some short scenes that weren't in the manga such as kienzan used against perfect cell or the fight Goku SSJ3 vs Super buu gotenks absorbed were kept in kai.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Bypass durability? Not sure maybe possible but unlikely to me.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

yes it occured in kai. Kai follows the manga more strictly (episodes are shorter and there are no filler). However some short scenes that weren't in the manga such as kienzan used against perfect cell or the fight Goku SSJ3 vs Super buu gotenks absorbed were kept in kai.

That's good actually, as it shows the uses and limits of Kienzan. While it can cut through almost anything regardless of power difference, it's completely and utterly useless against anything that possesses at least mid regen.

 

[Unclechairman]

Well, that ought to resolve the debate, then. Cell was probably two whole tiers above Krillin at that point, so it's safe to assume the Kienzan will not be able to affect someone with durability two tiers above the user. However, Frieza was at least a whole tier above Krillin, and yet he was affected by the Kienzan. So I think it's parameters have been fairly clearly defined.

 

[Unclechairman]

yes it occured in kai. Kai follows the manga more strictly (episodes are shorter and there are no filler). However some short scenes that weren't in the manga such as kienzan used against perfect cell or the fight Goku SSJ3 vs Super buu gotenks absorbed were kept in kai.

That's good actually, as it shows the uses and limits of Kienzan. While it can cut through almost anything regardless of power difference, it's completely and utterly useless against anything that possesses at least mid regen.

Cell didn't even need to regenerate. The Kienzan broke apart as soon as it touched him, and he didn't even sustain a scratch.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Cell didn't even need to regenerate. The Kienzan broke apart as soon as it touched him, and he didn't even sustain a scratch.

He didn't appear to regenerate, but that's likely because the Kienzan makes precise cuts and not huge gashes. It broke apart after it went through him, as well. Not on contact.

 

[Unclechairman]

Rewatched the scene; while I was wrong about it breaking on contact rather than going through him and then dissipating, I see no evidence that it caused any damage to him or froced him to regenerate, and I don't think we should just assume it did.

 

[Sheoth]

Don't think it bypasses durability, it's simply an extremely potent attack.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Don't think it bypasses durability, it's simply an extremely potent attack.

From the looks of it, it certainly doesn't look like other attacks which bypass durability. All durability passing attacks are hax in nature, and distructo disk doesn't look that way

Is there any official defintion for the attack so that we can understand its nature better?

 

[Unclechairman]

Yeah, I don't think Krillin was going to do anything to Frieza with conventional attacks, considering just how far he was above the Z Fighters at the time, but the Destructo Disk... *Ahem* Kienzan was effective.

It has to be able to bypass durability to a degree in order to be as effective as it was against opponents so much stronger than Krillin.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

it certainly does not ignore durability, but it damages opponents that are well above krillin's normal attack potency

 

[Jeune_fou]

Now that I think about it, Considering the number of characters who can use the kienzan (Krillin, Frieza, Vegeta, Cell and Goku himself), that means they can bypass durability of opponents who more durable than themself (to a limited degree though).

 

[Promestein]

They don't bypass durability.

If I remember correctly, SSJ2 Gohan blocked and shattered Cell's kienzan casually. That may have been anime only, but I remember it happening in Kai.

 

[Jeune_fou]

For cell to black it against Krillin makes sense but Gohan was like max twice stronger than cell. We have to be carefull with anime only stuff.

Another example of anime only scene: buuhan never fought base form Vegito. In the manga Vegito directly used SSJ form.

 

[Promestein]

Yes, I know, but I'm pretty sure it was in Kai, too, which would make it canon.

 

[Jeune_fou]

One question Promestein. Is your avatar Giselle gewell?.

 

[Promestein]

Yes.