-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Doctor Fate Revamp
- Thread starter LordTracer
- Start date
- Status
- 674
- 335
The 2-A Squad
Out of all of the characters I reviewed for this massive revision, Nabu, Dr. Fate (Kent & Inza Nelson), The Spectre (Jim Corrigan), The Phantom Stranger, and Trigo are the only ones who indisputably meet the criteria for a 2-A ranking in my opinion.
Nabu and Dr. Fate (Kent & Inza Nelson) are 2-A via their ow personal feats and statements unique to them alone.
The Spectre (Jim Corrigan), The Phantom Stranger, and Trigo are 2-A via scaling with the above group.
Nobody else in this assessment scales perfectly with any of these characters, as far as I can tell, meaning they would need their own 2-A feats to qualify for 2-A, none of which I could find.
The 2-B or 2-C Squad
Practically everybody else in this analysis (minus one character I'll mention later) meets the criteria for 2-C at a minimum, and a lot of them scale to each other. So my real challenge was to figure out who in the group (if anybody) met the requirements for 2-B. For those unaware of the requirements, a 2-B character must be capable of destroying 1001 to any higher finite number of universal 4-dimensional space-time continuums under their own power.
Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) seemed like a good place to start because they are canonically one of the weakest Dr. Fate incarnations, but they still have a few good feats.
1. Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) fairly casually erected a shield to protect against a blast that created universes.
2. Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) managed to shatter a forcefield that even the Hindu god Indra could not break, despite him having enough power to endanger every plane of creation.
The real difficulty with these showings was that it's unclear how powerful they are. They are 2-C at a minimum, but we do not know how many "universes" are being created or how many "planes" there are in creation. There was only supposed to be one universe in DC at this time, but apparently the writer had other plans. I thought taking a closer look at the run as a whole might give me some insight, and sure enough, it did. A few issues in, we get a tour of the entire Dr. Fate multiverse, and perfectly enough, exactly 1001 planes are described as existing in the story.
Both above listed Fate feats should scale to that description. The second one for obvious reasons, but the first one because it occured immediately after Mahapralaya, a cataclysmic event in Hindu cosmology that is supposed to dissolve every realm of creation. The burst of energy Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) shielded from immediately afterward is heavily implied to be the entirety of creation being remade.
All that logic put together means that, embarassingly weak Fate or not, Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) has to be 2-B as a matter of definition. Even if he just barely qualifies. Everybody else mentioned below in this section scales above him.
Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) is one of the strongest Fate incarnations and specifically stands leaps and bounds above Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss). Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) scales to Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) as being his only real competition for "most powerful Fate," and Dr. Fate (Inza Nelson) scales just below her husband but not drastically so.
Mordru scales to Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), The Time Trapper scales to Mordru, The Infinite Ma scales to The Time Trapper, Parallax scales above The Time Trapper, and Darkseid scales above Mordru.
And that should complete the bulk of the job. All above listed characters qualify for 2-B in my opinion. They aren't particularly deep into the tier or anything, but they still qualify.
The Squad I'm Unsure About
There are three characters I am not entirely sure how to scale, but I have estimations for all of them.
1. The Spectre (Hal Jordan)- He should scale above Parallax, making him 2-B at a minimum, but I also recently remembered that he withstood Emperor Joker's reality warping madness for far longer tha The Phantom Stranger. I don't know if that qualifies him for 2-A, but I thought it was at least worth bringing up. I'd love to hear some opinions on this.
2. Mordru- As a prominent Lord of Chaos and self-proclaimed archenemy to Nabu, you'd imagine Mordru should scale to Nabu directly, but he fights more evenly with Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), and Nabu was weakened during their only real encounter. It seems pretty clear throughout Fate lore that the proper Lords of Chaos and Order are usually much more powerful than their agents on Earth, so you'd expect Mordru to swat Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) like a bug... but he doesn't. This inconsistency might be somewhat explained in this scene, which tells us that Mordru's true form is a being of pure energy and he's much more constricted when physically incarnating to fight Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), but it still seems weird to me. For that reason, I propose that Mordru be given a tier of 2-B, Possibly Higher, but people who scale to him should be kept at a simple 2-B unless they have other feats suggesting something greater.
3. Dr. Fate (Kent V Nelson)- The final Fate incarnation before Flashpoint. Frankly, he wasn't around for long and I don't know much about him. He doesn't necessarily need a key, but if he gets one, I'd propose Low 2-C for the time being, scaling off of our current ranking for The Spectre (Crispus Allen). I might revisit him later to see if I can come up with anything better.
One Comment About Capes
A lot of ado was made earlier in this thread about whether or not Pre-Crisis Superma can be scaled to these revisions, and after much consideration, I think I've decided that he cannot be.
Our wiki currently rates Pre-Crisis Superma as 2-C, and honestly, in the context of these feats, I think that ranking is perfect. Pre-Crisis Superma is occasionally depicted as capable of damaging or chipping at Fate tier characters, but he often needs assistance, a power up, or a surprise assault to really pose a significant threat. Frankly, I think that fits almost naturally with what is being proposed here. It's about what you'd expect from someone on his level going up against Low 2-B opponents, and once you get a little further into the 2-B arena, he basically becomes an afterthought. I do not recommend upgrading Pre-Crisis Superma with this thread, nor do I recommend creating a separate thread to upgrade him from the feats discussed here. I think he fits perfectly with these revisions right where he is.
Aaand that's all! Please let me know what you think, if anything needs to be changed, if I missed a character or important feat, etc. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Out of all of the characters I reviewed for this massive revision, Nabu, Dr. Fate (Kent & Inza Nelson), The Spectre (Jim Corrigan), The Phantom Stranger, and Trigo are the only ones who indisputably meet the criteria for a 2-A ranking in my opinion.
Nabu and Dr. Fate (Kent & Inza Nelson) are 2-A via their ow personal feats and statements unique to them alone.
The Spectre (Jim Corrigan), The Phantom Stranger, and Trigo are 2-A via scaling with the above group.
Nobody else in this assessment scales perfectly with any of these characters, as far as I can tell, meaning they would need their own 2-A feats to qualify for 2-A, none of which I could find.
The 2-B or 2-C Squad
Practically everybody else in this analysis (minus one character I'll mention later) meets the criteria for 2-C at a minimum, and a lot of them scale to each other. So my real challenge was to figure out who in the group (if anybody) met the requirements for 2-B. For those unaware of the requirements, a 2-B character must be capable of destroying 1001 to any higher finite number of universal 4-dimensional space-time continuums under their own power.
Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) seemed like a good place to start because they are canonically one of the weakest Dr. Fate incarnations, but they still have a few good feats.
1. Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) fairly casually erected a shield to protect against a blast that created universes.
2. Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) managed to shatter a forcefield that even the Hindu god Indra could not break, despite him having enough power to endanger every plane of creation.
The real difficulty with these showings was that it's unclear how powerful they are. They are 2-C at a minimum, but we do not know how many "universes" are being created or how many "planes" there are in creation. There was only supposed to be one universe in DC at this time, but apparently the writer had other plans. I thought taking a closer look at the run as a whole might give me some insight, and sure enough, it did. A few issues in, we get a tour of the entire Dr. Fate multiverse, and perfectly enough, exactly 1001 planes are described as existing in the story.
Both above listed Fate feats should scale to that description. The second one for obvious reasons, but the first one because it occured immediately after Mahapralaya, a cataclysmic event in Hindu cosmology that is supposed to dissolve every realm of creation. The burst of energy Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) shielded from immediately afterward is heavily implied to be the entirety of creation being remade.
All that logic put together means that, embarassingly weak Fate or not, Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss) has to be 2-B as a matter of definition. Even if he just barely qualifies. Everybody else mentioned below in this section scales above him.
Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) is one of the strongest Fate incarnations and specifically stands leaps and bounds above Dr. Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss). Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) scales to Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) as being his only real competition for "most powerful Fate," and Dr. Fate (Inza Nelson) scales just below her husband but not drastically so.
Mordru scales to Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), The Time Trapper scales to Mordru, The Infinite Ma scales to The Time Trapper, Parallax scales above The Time Trapper, and Darkseid scales above Mordru.
And that should complete the bulk of the job. All above listed characters qualify for 2-B in my opinion. They aren't particularly deep into the tier or anything, but they still qualify.
The Squad I'm Unsure About
There are three characters I am not entirely sure how to scale, but I have estimations for all of them.
1. The Spectre (Hal Jordan)- He should scale above Parallax, making him 2-B at a minimum, but I also recently remembered that he withstood Emperor Joker's reality warping madness for far longer tha The Phantom Stranger. I don't know if that qualifies him for 2-A, but I thought it was at least worth bringing up. I'd love to hear some opinions on this.
2. Mordru- As a prominent Lord of Chaos and self-proclaimed archenemy to Nabu, you'd imagine Mordru should scale to Nabu directly, but he fights more evenly with Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), and Nabu was weakened during their only real encounter. It seems pretty clear throughout Fate lore that the proper Lords of Chaos and Order are usually much more powerful than their agents on Earth, so you'd expect Mordru to swat Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) like a bug... but he doesn't. This inconsistency might be somewhat explained in this scene, which tells us that Mordru's true form is a being of pure energy and he's much more constricted when physically incarnating to fight Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), but it still seems weird to me. For that reason, I propose that Mordru be given a tier of 2-B, Possibly Higher, but people who scale to him should be kept at a simple 2-B unless they have other feats suggesting something greater.
3. Dr. Fate (Kent V Nelson)- The final Fate incarnation before Flashpoint. Frankly, he wasn't around for long and I don't know much about him. He doesn't necessarily need a key, but if he gets one, I'd propose Low 2-C for the time being, scaling off of our current ranking for The Spectre (Crispus Allen). I might revisit him later to see if I can come up with anything better.
One Comment About Capes
A lot of ado was made earlier in this thread about whether or not Pre-Crisis Superma can be scaled to these revisions, and after much consideration, I think I've decided that he cannot be.
Our wiki currently rates Pre-Crisis Superma as 2-C, and honestly, in the context of these feats, I think that ranking is perfect. Pre-Crisis Superma is occasionally depicted as capable of damaging or chipping at Fate tier characters, but he often needs assistance, a power up, or a surprise assault to really pose a significant threat. Frankly, I think that fits almost naturally with what is being proposed here. It's about what you'd expect from someone on his level going up against Low 2-B opponents, and once you get a little further into the 2-B arena, he basically becomes an afterthought. I do not recommend upgrading Pre-Crisis Superma with this thread, nor do I recommend creating a separate thread to upgrade him from the feats discussed here. I think he fits perfectly with these revisions right where he is.
Aaand that's all! Please let me know what you think, if anything needs to be changed, if I missed a character or important feat, etc. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
- 674
- 335
Welp. My analysis posted this time. Eat it up, guys! And tell me what you think!
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Thread starter
- #124
Well, I basically agree with everything you've suggested here. Out of the three you're unsure about, I'll give my opinion for The Spectre (HJ). I would suggest 'At least 2-B, likely 2-A' for him.
- 167,863
- 76,487
I suppose that seems to make sense, but we need more input from knowledgeable members. Part of the scaling may simply be standard Marvel & DC Comics plot-induced stupidity inconsistencies.
- 674
- 335
Dr. Fate has a problem with often fighting unquantifiable entities like vaguely magical monsters or gods we never see outside of his series, so it can occasionally be difficult to get a benchmark for exactly what level of power we're dealing with. Is there any scaling in particular that you're worried about? I could do a once over on those characters specifically to make sure I wasn't too hasty with them.
Also, do you have an opinion on The Spectre (Hal Jordan), Mordru, and Dr. Fate (Kent V Nelson)?
Also, do you have an opinion on The Spectre (Hal Jordan), Mordru, and Dr. Fate (Kent V Nelson)?
- 674
- 335
I will. Provided everybody on this thread is content with it, I think I'm okay with people contacting the knowledgeable members now. Sorry I held off on it for so long. I'm the kind of person who likes to make things look nice and neat before submitting them for review.
- 674
- 335
I do not know the standard method for requesting a review. Do I just go to their wall and link them back here with a polite request?
And how many of them need to approve a revision for it to be applied? Is a unanimous consensus required? Not that I don't have faith in what I've written. I'm just still trying to learn the rules.
And how many of them need to approve a revision for it to be applied? Is a unanimous consensus required? Not that I don't have faith in what I've written. I'm just still trying to learn the rules.
- 2,610
- 350
ClassicNESfa I agree with Hal's Spectre being 2-A. I feel Crispus Allen should scale to 2-A as well, it feels weird for the other 3 to be 2-A whilst he's stuck at Low 2-C, unless there's a specific reason for him to be at that level that I'm unaware of.
- 674
- 335
The Spectre is a complex supernatural entity. In its true, unhindered form with all potential being used, it has nearly limitless power. Each incarnation varies in strength depending on how much of that the host can tap into. In other words, we scale different Spectre variants off of the most powerful thing we've seen them do rather than just scaling them to each other.
- 674
- 335
Do you have any opinions on Mordru and Dr. Fate (Kent V Nelson)? I can see you are among the list of people Ant originally recommended to evaluate these revisions.
- 2,610
- 350
Mordru should be given two keys for his physical and unbound states respectively. Will help clear up the scaling, that's for sure.
I don't think V Nelson needs a key, but if he gets one then a tier similar to Crispus should be fine due to lack of information on them. Tho if we can find scans that would put the emotional entities at a higher level, that might help.
But then again I'm wondering what's distinguishing Jordan's Parallax to regular Parallax? Did he acheive some sort of power up alongside his possession.
I don't think V Nelson needs a key, but if he gets one then a tier similar to Crispus should be fine due to lack of information on them. Tho if we can find scans that would put the emotional entities at a higher level, that might help.
But then again I'm wondering what's distinguishing Jordan's Parallax to regular Parallax? Did he acheive some sort of power up alongside his possession.
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Thread starter
- #138
In Zero Hour he absorbed all the power from the Green Lantern Power Battery, which did allow him to harm Jim Corrigan, which could support a 2-A ZH Parallax. Outside of that... no real difference.
- 674
- 335
So you would recommend a seperate 2-A key for Mordru's True Form in that case?
If I remember the story right, Parallax was collecting power ups to amp himself all the way up to Zero Hour. I think the idea is that the emotional entities vary in strength depending on the power of their host. That being said, I'm unsure why they are Low 2-C without a host. All the profiles seem to scale off of each other until coming back to Superboy-Prime who was basically matched by Io with Sodam Yat as a host. I think there's an argument to be made that Superboy-Prime shoud be 2-C rather than Low 2-C, which would upgrade the emotional entities as well if I'm reading this right, but now probably isn't the best time for it. This thread is busy enough as it is.
If I remember the story right, Parallax was collecting power ups to amp himself all the way up to Zero Hour. I think the idea is that the emotional entities vary in strength depending on the power of their host. That being said, I'm unsure why they are Low 2-C without a host. All the profiles seem to scale off of each other until coming back to Superboy-Prime who was basically matched by Io with Sodam Yat as a host. I think there's an argument to be made that Superboy-Prime shoud be 2-C rather than Low 2-C, which would upgrade the emotional entities as well if I'm reading this right, but now probably isn't the best time for it. This thread is busy enough as it is.
- 11,807
- 7,371
I have doubts for Trigon and Parallax being their tier stated, (especially Trigon), are there any other supporting feat for their tiers?
- 674
- 335
Like I said, I do have some thoughts about that, but I don't know if this is a good place to bring them up. I'd hate to derail the thread any futher than it aleady is, so I'll just say I am aware of what you are referring to but have some level of doubt about the legitimacy of that feat. We can talk about it if you'd really like to, but I think it's tangental to the main point of this discussion, and I don't want us to get too off-topic with unrelated characters again.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Those aren't exactly off-topic discussions when you're trying to directly scale them. In fact, it's a very in-topic discussion lol. It should at least be addressed unless you want to redo the revisions once they are passed.
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Thread starter
- #145
I don't see why that one thing should limit his tiering, especially when the AP feat currently on his profile is more like 2-C, 2-B or even 2-A than Low 2-C.Antvasima said:
- 674
- 335
@Zark2099 My apologies, I was speaking to Ant in that response. I'll be addressing you next. Sorry I missed your questions. Give me just a minute.
- 674
- 335
@Zark2099
We currently rate Parallax almost entirely by scaling him to The Time Trapper, but aside from putting up some level of resistance to The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) and causing the multiversal chaos present i Zero Hour, there are not a lot of benchmark feats for the character. I believe a comment in the Letters to the Editor stated that he was capable of destroying universes with his blasts, during The Spectre (Hal Jordan)'s run, he would claim that he had the power to "change the universes" as Parallax, and years later in Convergence, he managed to fight off the Anti-Monitor with the help of a half dozen Pre-Crisis characters, but those are the most concrete statements we ever got about his power. That last feat is never even shown in its entirety so we don't know how he did it.
When it comes to Trigo, I must admit that I'm almost never sure where to place him. For such a notorious villain, he barely has any feats to scale from. We know that he destroys universes. We know that he could still destroy the universe when reduced to 1/10th of his power. We know he has overthrown Earth's heroes in a number of alternate timelines. But aside from those statements and showings with no particular upper estimate, his power is ridiculously vague. He's almost always expelled or repelled by hax specific to him, but statements continue to insist that if he were to fully manifest in the DC universe proper, he would be unstoppable. That is unfortunately a vague threat that can be applied to any number of would-be conqerors. If I had to pinpoint his most impressive power scaling, aside from apparently killing off Dr. Fate and The Phantom Stranger, as well as The Monitor considering him comperable to The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) (all the above mentioned scans), I suppose I would direct you to Raven's insistance that he is "perhaps the greatest threat this universe will ever know." Under most circumstances, this would just be another vague statement of power, but in this instance, it was immediately in the context of a conversation that mentioned Apokolips, implying that Rave considers him more dangerous than Darkseid. I know that isn't much, but I'm trying over here. He's an unquantifiable mess. At least I got something. Obviously, this does not scale to Darkseid's Godhead, but I think there's enough wiggle room with Trigon's never specified power range to suggest he's 2-A when not being removed by hax. I'm not super passionate about it or anything, though. I'm just scaling characters in accordance with the rest of the thread. Trigo has very few showings of his lower limits. I wouldn't mind being corrected if I'm mistaken.
We currently rate Parallax almost entirely by scaling him to The Time Trapper, but aside from putting up some level of resistance to The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) and causing the multiversal chaos present i Zero Hour, there are not a lot of benchmark feats for the character. I believe a comment in the Letters to the Editor stated that he was capable of destroying universes with his blasts, during The Spectre (Hal Jordan)'s run, he would claim that he had the power to "change the universes" as Parallax, and years later in Convergence, he managed to fight off the Anti-Monitor with the help of a half dozen Pre-Crisis characters, but those are the most concrete statements we ever got about his power. That last feat is never even shown in its entirety so we don't know how he did it.
When it comes to Trigo, I must admit that I'm almost never sure where to place him. For such a notorious villain, he barely has any feats to scale from. We know that he destroys universes. We know that he could still destroy the universe when reduced to 1/10th of his power. We know he has overthrown Earth's heroes in a number of alternate timelines. But aside from those statements and showings with no particular upper estimate, his power is ridiculously vague. He's almost always expelled or repelled by hax specific to him, but statements continue to insist that if he were to fully manifest in the DC universe proper, he would be unstoppable. That is unfortunately a vague threat that can be applied to any number of would-be conqerors. If I had to pinpoint his most impressive power scaling, aside from apparently killing off Dr. Fate and The Phantom Stranger, as well as The Monitor considering him comperable to The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) (all the above mentioned scans), I suppose I would direct you to Raven's insistance that he is "perhaps the greatest threat this universe will ever know." Under most circumstances, this would just be another vague statement of power, but in this instance, it was immediately in the context of a conversation that mentioned Apokolips, implying that Rave considers him more dangerous than Darkseid. I know that isn't much, but I'm trying over here. He's an unquantifiable mess. At least I got something. Obviously, this does not scale to Darkseid's Godhead, but I think there's enough wiggle room with Trigon's never specified power range to suggest he's 2-A when not being removed by hax. I'm not super passionate about it or anything, though. I'm just scaling characters in accordance with the rest of the thread. Trigo has very few showings of his lower limits. I wouldn't mind being corrected if I'm mistaken.
- 674
- 335
Unless I'm missing some feats, I don't think it would be unreasonable to treat Trigo similarly to how we treat SHuman-Gorath- in that he's immensely more powerful than pretty much every other character in the Earth plane, but he's almost always locked out of the universe unless summoned by very specific means and not BFRd later.
- 167,863
- 76,487
When it comes to scaling Parallax, Trigon, and similar, please remember that most Marvel and DC Comics writers seem to have a very vague idea of how powerful the characters are in relation to each other. Alternately they do not care all that much.
Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics
Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics
- 11,807
- 7,371
Hm, so Parallax seems At least 2-C with the "change universes" statement in my opinion, and honestly, Time Trapper's statement exclusively state Mordru can potentially become a Low 2-C by controlling the universe, and still seems far superior to him in the grand scheme of things. The chain-scaling here seems a little too loose, in my opinion, when the actual feats somewhat... contradict it?
If he's so unquantifiable, isn't it better to leave him at an Unknow? It's better than forcing a misleading tier onto him.
Idk, is there any solid consistency for these characters to be comparable to the Fates, who do have a solid 2-B? Except for one-off instances that is. I know I'm being unwantedly bothersome, but these are upgrading alot of major figures, so I think it is, somewhat warranted
If he's so unquantifiable, isn't it better to leave him at an Unknow? It's better than forcing a misleading tier onto him.
Idk, is there any solid consistency for these characters to be comparable to the Fates, who do have a solid 2-B? Except for one-off instances that is. I know I'm being unwantedly bothersome, but these are upgrading alot of major figures, so I think it is, somewhat warranted
- 11,807
- 7,371
Oh wow, I completely unnoticed that. That may be a solid enough justification then for Trigon, since it verifies it from an unbiased observer's perspective and ties into him being able to kill Doctor Fates
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Thread starter
- #154
The feat on Superboy-Prime's profile right now describes him as "resolving all the possible realities" with every strike. I don't know if it's just me, but that sounds 2-C at the absolute least.Antvasima said:
- 674
- 335
Mordru is definitely consistently comperable to the Fates. He's essentially treated as their main antagonist for a while, and they fight pretty evenly during every encounter. If you're looking for a character to scale directly to the 2-B Fates, he's your guy.
I'm not opposed to The Time Trapper being scaled above Mordru. The Lord of Chaos did after all recruit a partner to take Trapper down in one storyline. But I don't think I understand how Mordru prevented The Time Trapper from conquoring the universe so consistently that he had to create a team to dethrone Mordru if they were not at least somewhat comperable.
I also have no issues with leaving Trigo at Unknow, but his profile is already 2-C. Wouldn't the additional information at least warrant something closer to At Least 2-C or 2-C, Possibly Higher rather than the dismissal of a proper tier altogether? Those are three instances of him being confirmed to kill Fate level characters or higher- four if you count Raven's comments scaling to Darkseid.
Parallax can likewise be scaled to At Least 2-C. Again, no real issue with that. But I think the fact that he currently scales to The Time Trapper as justification for his current tier is at least worth taking into consideration. Why should that scaling no longer be used on the simple basis that The Time Trapper might be getting an upgrade? It isn't as though the jump from 2-C to 2-B is particularly ludicrous in the first place, and he has no low showings to my knowledge that imply it's inappropriate.
I'm not opposed to The Time Trapper being scaled above Mordru. The Lord of Chaos did after all recruit a partner to take Trapper down in one storyline. But I don't think I understand how Mordru prevented The Time Trapper from conquoring the universe so consistently that he had to create a team to dethrone Mordru if they were not at least somewhat comperable.
I also have no issues with leaving Trigo at Unknow, but his profile is already 2-C. Wouldn't the additional information at least warrant something closer to At Least 2-C or 2-C, Possibly Higher rather than the dismissal of a proper tier altogether? Those are three instances of him being confirmed to kill Fate level characters or higher- four if you count Raven's comments scaling to Darkseid.
Parallax can likewise be scaled to At Least 2-C. Again, no real issue with that. But I think the fact that he currently scales to The Time Trapper as justification for his current tier is at least worth taking into consideration. Why should that scaling no longer be used on the simple basis that The Time Trapper might be getting an upgrade? It isn't as though the jump from 2-C to 2-B is particularly ludicrous in the first place, and he has no low showings to my knowledge that imply it's inappropriate.
- 674
- 335
And don't worry. I do not think you are bothersome.
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Thread starter
- #159
That doesn't seem to be what the scan itself implies, especially as Prime seems to be affecting more than one universe and is directly shown affecting Earth-Two (I think it's Earth-Two at least, correct me if I'm wrong).
- 15,450
- 15,865
- Status
