Doctor Doom vs Dr Eggman (Bump against NLFs)

[The_Impress]

I don't see it tbh... also it's possession, not mind manip. It's more closer to biological manip I think.

Also, might wanna reword that mate, you basically just said Eggman resists everything. Now that's NLF

 

[The_Impress]

Oooooohhhh wait, I remember, Doom trained under Doctor Strange whose magic can affect 2-As, I recall, so that's something ig to counter Eggman's resist, and as with Oblivion's scans, his science works against 2-As too.

Also, yeah, Doom absorbs gg

 

[ElixirBlue]

Oooooohhhh wait, I remember, Doom trained under Doctor Strange whose magic can affect 2-As, I recall, so that's something ig to counter Eggman's resist, and as with Oblivion's scans, his science works against 2-As too.

Also, yeah, Doom absorbs gg

Power Rings tank 2-A power and is Life Force protection.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I really hope you don't ever argue such a thing again, Elixir. We aren't telling you to believe NFLs, we are telling you an absorption technique that is meant to absorb is going to absorb. This is no different from time stop, we assume it has universal range UNLESS shown otherwise.

Doom's absorption has never been shown to be limited, so if you wanna supoose that it is, prove it because that burden of proof is on you. By Occam's Razor, if the technique absorbs power and has no statement of being limited, why in the actual f*cking hell would we believe it is? Seriously, what wretched logic is this? Nitpicking to such an outrageous level with no basis for it is not debating, is inflexibility.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I don't see it tbh... also it's possession, not mind manip. It's more closer to biological manip I think.

It was mind manipulation, as Robotization erases a person's mind till a Power Ring or De-Robotization restores them.

Also, Power Rings do prevent Possession.






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Power Rings can also access blocked power that Chaos expert users can't access.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I really hope you don't ever argue such a thing again, Elixir. We aren't telling you to believe NFLs, we are telling you an absorption technique that is meant to absorb is going to absorb. This is no different from time stop, we assume it has universal range UNLESS shown otherwise.

Doom's absorption has never been shown to be limited, so if you wanna supoose that it is, prove it because that burden of proof is on you. By Occam's Razor, if the technique absorbs power and has no statement of being limited, why in the actual f*cking hell would we believe it is? Seriously, what wretched logic is this? Nitpicking to such an outrageous level with no basis for it is not debating, is inflexibility.

Fallacy

3. Burden of proof fallacy

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.

Example:

"Goku is faster than light speed because you can't prove he's not!"

In this case, the person in the example makes a claim (Goku is FTL), and without providing evidence for it himself, he asks his opponent to prove him wrong. In reality, the person who made that claim would be the one required to prove it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

You claim Dr. Doom can absorb humans and machines. I'm asking for proof. Absorption is different from Time Stop.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

You claim Dr. Doom can absorb humans and machines. I'm asking for proof.

He literally absorbed matter in one of the scans above

Machines have matter, humans have matter, etc

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That is bullcrap. The burden of proof is on you when Occam's Razor would indicate it should work on more than Cosmic Beings since nothing like that has ever been implied. We need to assume MORE that it only works on them deapite this never being said.

Your example is nonsensical. You are putting limits on an ability that hasn't shown them. Is like having an accepted calc for Goku actually moving at light speed and saying he can only do that while flying because he was flying on the feat that got the calc. Is he ever depicted as slower running? Is this ever said? Is it even implied contextually? No? Then he isn't. Its dumb, its nonsense.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Nightmare: "He was both a conceptual entity, part of all existence like Eternity, and a deity."

So, not human but a conceptual entity... so, the absorption has concept manipulation...

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So you say it can't work on machines, and AFTER you say he is a conceptual entity. Why didn't you start saying this first? Are you just looking for every possible nitpick doable.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I didn't say it can't work on machines. I'm asking for proof it can. And it's looking like there is no proof, otherwise you guys would have shown it already.

And I have always said Dr. Doom's adsorption can effect the Chaos Energy and now I know it can effect concepts. Cool.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Doom absorbs matter. Eggman and his machines are made up of matter. Doom's absorption doesn't only work on "cosmic entities".

There.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Doom absorbs matter. Eggman and his machines are made up of matter. Doom's absorption doesn't only work on "cosmic entities".

There.

Was that "matter" made out of a concept? I guess the concept of Order and Chaos also have "matter" when Thanos took them down.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

We dont need to show proof because its just common sense

He can absorb matter, energy, powers, conceptual entities, cosmic beings, etc

Saying that he cant absorb humans (who are also made of matter) is just plain ignorance

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You arw actually reading what I am saying, right? Unless the absorption shows anything that would indicate its limited, we DON'T assume that it is.

Do you actually know how we do things?

 

[ElixirBlue]

@Oblivion Of The Endless

Sigh, can you tell me the issues those scans came from so I can see them for myself?

Also, how does Dr. Doom resist Dr. Eggman's barrage of Teleportation beams from the Egg Fleet?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If you aren't even gonna trust what people tell you, why are you debating and not looking stuff up yourself?

Surprisingly, we don't have the time and memory to look for every relevant scan, as is the case for nearly every discussion here.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If you aren't even gonna trust what people tell you, why are you debating and not looking stuff up yourself?

Surprisingly, we don't have the time and memory to look for every relevant scan, as is the case for nearly every discussion here.

Because i'm trying to understand it, which you aren't helping.

 

[LordTracer]

Let's try something different.

How high is Robotnik, on the 2-A scale?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Anyway, Dr. Eggman has the advantage, with Egg Fleet primed with Teleportation Beams that ignores Durability and defenses made from a 2-A being. The Teleportation Beams bring Dr. Doom into a Prepared Egg Grape with 2-A absorption. Dr. Doom will try to absorb the machines but the machines will absorb Dr. Doom's powers and life force at the same time, and either incaping Dr. Doom or finishing him off.

Enerjak is high into 2-A.

 

[LordTracer]

Hm, so from what I'm seeing, not infinitely above baseline. Which means Doom one-shots.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Doctor Doom being able to absorb Eggman and his machinery is just common sense.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Hm, so from what I'm seeing, not infinitely above baseline. Which means Doom one-shots.

Enerjak is uncountable above Baseline.

 

[LordTracer]

That doesn't seem to be the case, looking through the profiles. They seem to be baseline.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Because i'm trying to understand it, which you aren't helping.

What more do you need ti understand about an absorption that works on comic beings and can convert matter to energy and absorb that energy? What is literally the point of scans? There's no clearer way to explain this and I don't get what else you want "understand".

A small tip, don't religiously rely on scans. It's gonna be very unlikely that people can just provide scans for everything, and this is much more the case with such an old and popular character like Doom. Most don't have that time and scans of everything prepared.

 

[ElixirBlue]

What more do you need ti understand about an absorption that works on comic beings and can convert matter to energy and absorb that energy? What is literally the point of scans? There's no clearer way to explain this and I don't get what else you want "understand".

A small tip, don't religiously rely on scans. It's gonna be very unlikely that people can just provide scans for everything, and this is much more the case with such an old and popular character like Doom. Most don't have that time and scans of everything prepared.

It's your logic I find flawed. If I follow your logic "Dr. Doom was never seen absorbing humans and machines but he has on Cosmic beings so let's assume it can possibly work on humans and machines. We never seen any limits." is like saying "Luigi's poltergeist 3000 works on ghosts and spirits. We've never seen any limits, so we can also assume Luigi can suck the souls out of living beings".

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except sucking a ghost is not the same as all as sucking someone's soul...? Do you even understand what you are talking about? Sucking a ghost would constitute Non-Physical Interaction, not soul manipulation, so you wouldn't be able to suck a soul for hopefully obvious reasons.

Absorption is absorption, it lets him absorb powers, it was never said or hinted or even implied this could only work on cosmic beings. So why would it exactly not work on a human? Why using Occam's Razor arw we gonna assume the ability is limited in that way? I am not telling you Doom can suck a Tier 0 because he has never shown the contrary, but that his absorption has never shown selectively only working on cosmic entities. I can't believe you can't comprehend how dumb it is to somehow ASSUME this with shit for proof when we never do that.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Except sucking a ghost is not the same as all as sucking someone's soul...? Do you even understand what you are talking about? Sucking a ghost would constitute Non-Physical Interaction, not soul manipulation, so you wouldn't be able to suck a soul for hopefully obvious reasons.

Except, absorbing a Cosmic being or powers is not the same as absorbing a human or a machine.

Also, it was never said or hinted or even implied that the poltergeist could only work on ghosts with no living bodies to be attached to.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Neither is absorbing a human but we assume it would work on anything else of a similar tier unless anything would indicate otherwise, which you seem to not comprehend. Do they have matter to absorb? Or do they have any sort of equalized energy? Yes? Then stop nitpicking uselessly and making this an unnecessary chore.

Ugh... **** it, honestly **** this discussion. Is too much of a pain in the ass with these unreal and impossible hurdles you are putting on every single damn thimg.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sorry if I want to figure out if Dr. Doom only built his absorption ability to absorb Cosmic's in mind.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Ill say it one last time just in case is worth something.

Occam's razor

Perhaps Doom did, but this is not said, this is not hinted, this is not even actually or potentially implied. So why, and I really wanna know why, would you use MORE assumptions that are based not on evidence but in a "lack" of evidence, to ascertain that the technique only works on cosmic beings? Especially when this is the very same guy that also turns matter into energy and absorbs it, sucked ion energy from a not cosmic figure, and has a suit so advanced it's defenses have reactive adaptability? That's the point, you wouldn't, because it is completely nonsensical to ascribe a limitation with no basis for it. Let me repeat that again, no proof or indication or basis.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'm ending this conversation with this:

I know this thread has refused to look for scans or statements about Dr. Doom not making his absorption only Cosmic level beings or supernatural powers.

Here are the levels of Dr. Eggman's absorption:

He absorbs the energy and life force of Citizens and Cybernetic people:


__________________________________________

He can absorb the Immortal/Greatest Sorcerer Mogul with a Chaos Emerald, which is why Mogul was actively trying to resist it.

It also left the 2nd Greatest Sorcerer(who created the Zone of Silence and expanded it to the size of Universe), Naugus, brain damaged:


______________________________________________

Then, after modifying the Egg Grapes, Eggman then used his absorption Hax to absorb the power of an uncountable above baseline 2-A in Enerjak:




________________________________________________

Dr. Eggman has the feats to prove his Absorption works on all levels. Dr. Doom only has proven his absorption work on Cosmic. But the General thought is that it can work on normal people and machines too.

It's not possible Dr. Doom made his Absorption with the sole goal in mind to absorb Cosmic's and should fiction like Accelerator's power, at all levels.

Oh wait. He did make an Absorption with the sole intent of absorbing Cosmic's at one point:

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

And here in lies the crux of why your argumentation absolutely sucks. His absorption wasn't MADE to suck a cosmic being, the being he wanted to suck the energy of WAS Cosmic. There is literally nothing indicating it only works on them or made for them in mind and I am tired that yiu can't recognize such a simple freaking thing. And it's not the same thing, Doom's other instances of absorption had nothing to do with and didn't even rely on some special suit, as you can literally see on the very scan in his profile siphoning the Ion energy.

And yeah, I drop this discussion completely. It's going nowhere and I don't see it going anywhere while you are fixed on youe ways.

 

[ElixirBlue]

> Says it's going no where

> Also doesn't support anything he claims

 

[ElixirBlue]

LSirLancelotDuLacl's logic:

"The Chaos Syphon was showed to absorb the power of eleven Chaos Emeralds to transform to a 2-A Enerjak and later absorbed power from the 2-A Master Mogul 1st. That means the Chaos Syphon can absorb everyday citizens and machines to death."

 

[ElixirBlue]

This thread's logic:

"Goku absorbed energy from the Sun without it turning sentient and give Goku it's permission. That means Goku can absorb energy from regular people without their permission since the Sun is far greater than regular people."

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Your logic gets dumber and dumber every second and I gotta wonder if you are trolling.

The Chaos Syphon, named after Chaos Energy, can absorb the Chaos Energy of normal Chaos Emeralds or out of someone that has Chaos power on then. Does a normal shmuck have chaos power then? No? There's nothing to suck, ******* simple and extremely easy to get.

Can Chaos Energy be equalized? No? Then that shit won't work. Yes? Then that shit will suck people's energy.

Done, easy, how freaking simple it is. And what have we seen with Doom? He can suck cosmic energy, he sucked a dude's power that had nothing to do with cosmic bullshit right in front of his face, and sucked someone else after turning their matter into energy. Then you continue with your actually bullshit logic of "nah, that shit won't work on everything". Dude, if you wanna be close minded to such impossible levels, that's your shitshow and problem, not mine. Doom can totally absorb in this scenario, but you are free to keep denying that till the end of time I guess.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If you build something to absorb Magic, can you absorb a human and a machine?

If you build something to absorb Science, can you absorb Magic?

If you build something to absorb Cosmic energy that is not the building blocks of creation, can you absorb people and machines?

Please tell me more. I do want to learn.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... Science isn't an energy. And I think what you don't seem to get as I've said a million times is that nothing ever even implies his absorbing only works on Cosmic Beings.

Why, seriously why the hell is this stupidly simple detail doesn't seem to penetrate your skull? If it isn't hinted in anyway, we assume it can work on most things if there's an energy source that can be equalized.

But you keep on going and going and going about the same stuff like I am honestly talking to a wall.