Then later It says the light become the human world; that's a huge difference in the meaning.
Pretty much confirms that PoC Pluto isn't responsible for the splitting of worlds either.While PoC is non-canon in the sense that it's not the same timeline as the original games, the lore information provided in it should still be valid. And in the older version, this item, the "Chaos Boundary Stone", explicitly does state that the "first light" is what split the HW and DW.
And while I fully understand that this comes the older version, which reasonably had its share of controversy around it due to scans of extremely questionable veracity, it's very easy to find videos of random players having this item in their inventory, like right here for example, so I think it should be fine to bring up.
The OP's contention is that there is no such character, that the scan that has been interpreted as referring to a "Pluto" character was mistranslated and is actually referring to Sparda.
If the opposition isn’t trying to attribute a specific feat to “Pluto”, then as far as I can tell this is a completely pointless argument as this “Pluto” is a lore based featless character. Whether or not it’s an actual character, seems like one vague lore mention isn’t really worthy enough for a profile anyway.
That doesn’t prevent ppl from scrutinizing the localization/official version as well as putting those under further scrutiny so I find this as being completely subjective as it stands here
Yah, pretty much. That's why the proposal is either nuke it or make his profile PoC exclusive.
Pretty sure we still do, it's just the 9D scans got proven fake so there isn't much to add last I checked
Another user has referenced a scan from POC that directly attributes the splitting of the world to the light. So POC becomes a double edged sword here.
That's not what is being proposed. It seems as though the Pluto profile isn't lore-accurate.
You've been the primary voice of opposition during this thread. If you don't care about what the thread is proposing, it is better if you stop clogging the thread with the back and forth.
Oh no dude, you don't get it, it's just a huge coincidence that the first Demon King in Peak of Kombat is Pluto, just like in the source material, and the fact that the designs in the manga and Peak of Combat match is also a coincidence.
Yes.
web.archive.org
This whole thing about the chaos boundary is absolutely irrelevant because 1) the item doesn't exist anymore or in other words it doesn't hold weight in the current story/canon 2) The manga explicitly states how the ray of light came first and some unknown time later on the world was separated in two. 3) The manga code 1 Dante tells the creation of the world in 2 pages while code 2 vergil takes the time to go in depth when Arkham is telling the story to vergil in order to make a parallel with Sparda.
Did you forget the single little detail of the unknown ton of time that happens between those events? He was killed by Mundus and in true DMC fashion he came back without any explanation to free Medea and **** off to God knows where. His intent in PoC is completely different which can be expected after over 2k years.
Both scans don’t exactly mention Pluto though and speaking of that Tweet, that seemingly being refuted there.
You might have been in the right if not for the fact that the prophecy isn't talking about literal separation, which still hasn't been addressed.
That's a headcanon.
Umm, there are many issues with that argument. First off that the translation used there is god awful, making the context ambiguous as hell.
Literally nothing here actually aligns with the provided raws; an actual accurate translation would be:
Like, excuse me? There's no mention of a spear anywhere, nor of being consumed by chaos, nor of striking the world. Not to mention it omits 何度目か, a major point in his argument, since it means 'after some point' or 'for the umpteenth time,' implying it wasn't actually happening during the world's creation or whatsoever even if it was a thing, but after a random period of time.
Again, the original text doesn't mention or say anything about the birth of Earth and Heaven; all it's saying is;
rest of the argument is null since it's based on these translation.
Just means he's Canon to PoC itself since his lore doesn't fit with your guys lore.
dunno man, it's being referring to some actual existing character we know about in the main series is far more likely that the guy with only 1 mention in the franchise.
Just another bad translation; it original text doesn't say Pluto's dragon either, it says Underworld's dragon.
If you count the light, then yeah, he's the second; otherwise, no, he's the first.
who's that random guy in the stream and what kind of authority he got over the franchise though.
It's not referring to literal separation, based on the fact that the same/similar kanji has already been used in the series, and it wasn’t describing things being actually separated; the manga scan of DMC 3 uses 裂ける, the potential form of 裂く, which means to tear,and guess what;
As you can see, the context of the statement is clear: Heaven was constantly overturning the Earth (the Human Realm), splitting it apart repeatedly, leaving its people hopeless and dying. At some point, however, a black-horned demon appeared and struck the Earth with a massive spike, ensuring it would never be split apart again—essentially preventing it from being overturned or attacked in such a way ever again. (Note: I originally translated 裂ける here as "split" instead of "tear" to show how it doesn't work grammatically or fit the sentence and context.)
He has no lore or indications in the main series; you guys made it all up. If I’m wrong, prove me otherwise by posting explicit scans from the MAIN series. I’ll be waiting.
None of this is relevant or address any of my argument.
1) you're just arguing from incredulity at this point.
None of this is relevant to my argument here; do you actually read what I'm arguing?
One piece of evidence proving Sparda > zero evidence proving Pluto's; moot point and personal incredulity isn't an argument nor does it address my point here.
Are you trolling? "During the birth of the earth and the heavens" is a totally different sentence and meaning compared to "Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable."
The fact nothing in PoC fits the lore you guys saying for him?
Irrelevant.
Same game that you said not Canon to the main continuity? Same game that proves the light did the splitting? Yeah sure.
Not gonna bother the Japanese being a different medium argument again. Anyone can tell how laughable it is.
Moot; the world's of some random guy on some stream means nothing unless you show his authority regarding the franchise.
It literally talks about separating heaven (demon world) and earth (Human world). Unless some mental gimnasticas are involved, it's hard to read the text and come to another conclusion.
There is evidence that the worlds were separated, this same book mentions how a demon god (named pluto in the eng localization) will be the one performing it, same with Arkham retelling of the story about the creation of the world.
I know you didn't even bother to read the manga so allow me to repeat myself, the ******* world was unstable after the human world was born, both worlds were being torn apart so he had to come in and do it.
It would be if Arkham wasn't talking about the literal genesis of the world when telling that story. Sparda and Mundus came in only 2k years prior to the main story and god knows how long after the genesis.
You translated these and yet you are turning a blind eye to them.
It fits with our lore. PoC just made things easier for us.
Ah yes, definitively talking about Mundus who's intentions and actions are the exact opposite, 100% him.
What light? Ohh, you are talking about a non-existent PoC scan... well, sad for you because it doesn't exist nor is it canon
Official PoC staff. He explicitly stated in that same stream that they got permissions from capcom and itsuno to do with the story as they please. Way more power than any of us here to state and claim stuff.
Honestly this is the one thing that is bugging me...why do we have to nuke Pluto's profile? Not to mention...making it PoC exclusive??? PoC is part of the main timeline? It's not DmC reboot just a gacha that takes place after 3. The more I read the arguments, the more the Tldr makes no sense.
It does literally include DmC content, though.
Where...?
I understand your sentiments about the stone. But even disregarding it, it still seems to me that the manga is stating that the "light" is what first split the world, with that light later on becoming the domain of humans, rather than the split having been caused by the actions of Pluto or somebody else.
I could have honestly. It's been a hot ass minute since I finished PoC's story so there's some beats that I could've forgotten about/missed. That aside, the video you sent of who I'm going to assume is a member of the PoC staff stating that Mundus did fight Pluto to become the Demon King is pretty clear-cut, so there's not really much to say against that.. my only problem is, it's weird that PoC itself (from my knowledge, at least) never says a single thing about Pluto being killed before, let alone by Mundus, and instead talks about him being sealed away millennia ago by Sparda & the Guardian Family; specifically, about 1000-2000 years ago. This is especially weird to me because, from what I know, the events between Sparda & Mundus that led to the latter being sealed transpired over that course of time also.
Exactly what DmC content are you talking about?
This is weird headcanon. The light is obviously the human, and even in the manga scan the light that is the human world precedes the split occurring, and there's no conceivable basis for a demon lord to be called the light.
Did you miss the part where Arkham tells Vergil a demon god came in, struck the world and casted a spell to keep them from splitting again? Or the part where Mundus had to tear the veil between worlds to start his invasion?
Pluto was never sealed, the scan you brought is the place where Medea was sealed and the reason why Pluto is there lurking in the guild, to break her seal. It's literally explained, word for word, in this mission and the one prior.
Again, we don't know the mentality Pluto had prior to PoC, we just know that the worlds were tearing themselves apart because of the instability that came with the birth of the light and how in some of these times Pluto came in and did his thing then got killed.
