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Divine Dimensionnal Dance: Shinza Bansho Gods downgrade

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Yet you were using that to explain smth about dimensions when...literally yakou's shit got busted like it was nothing in an instant so what he pulled was jack only with a matching taiji as he awakened allowed him to blocked it.

Also Yakou was blinded as I mentioned by the flames but tengan awakened after getting his eyes burned.
 
Yet you were using that to explain smth about dimensions when...literally yakou's shit got busted like it was nothing in an instant so what he pulled was jack only with a matching taiji as he awakened allowed him to blocked it.

Also Yakou was blinded as I mentioned by the flames but tengan awakened after getting his eyes burned.
I used the one against Ootake as a bonus. The one where Sukuna was present with Ootake is another scene. And here both were blocked.

Not in this fight. It's his second fight with Morei here.
 
Yet you were using that to explain smth about dimensions when...literally yakou's shit got busted like it was nothing in an instant so what he pulled was jack only with a matching taiji as he awakened allowed him to blocked it.

Also Yakou was blinded as I mentioned by the flames but tengan awakened after getting his eyes burned.

This thread isn't going to disappear. If you need time to get quotes, just say so and we will wait.
 
work out on your writing then because you worded it in such a way that any Dust Angel (in this case, making it sound like any Angel) can which is lmao. Only Belial and Belial

  • 一回目
天魔・母禮からの攻撃に使用。
彼女の炎は、宙にある大気、僅かな塵芥、更には空間そのものさえも消滅してのけるので、
空間すら焼き尽くすというのなら、その空間そのものに次元の断層を生み出して防御した。
不和之関での夜行に勝利した攻撃に、勝るとも劣らない連撃だったが、
展開した七つの位相の内三つまでしか焼き尽くせず、防御に成功する。

  • 二回目
天魔・宿儺天魔・大獄の二体の随神相からの攻撃に使用。
蝦夷から不二霊峰まで、山脈すら滅する、小国ならば滅亡必至の同時攻撃を、
掌に具現させた時空の暇(いとま)による障壁で防御した。
そよ風の如しと防ぎきり、防御に成功する。

  • 三回目
天魔・大獄からの攻撃に使用。
彼の拳を止めるために、二回目の十倍以上に練り上げて、二十四の次元断層を使用。
これらは衝撃を相転移する絶対障壁であり、さらに最硬度の防咒を施してある。(同時に自身は瞬間移動を使って後退)
しかし総て貫通されて、防御に失敗し死亡する。

  • 四回目
天魔・大獄からの攻撃に使用。
夜摩閻羅天に覚醒したことで、天魔・大獄の破滅と同種の波動を持つ。
これにより、彼の攻撃を相殺することで、防御?に成功する。

Know that all of these instances, Yakou only succeeded because they weren't using Taikyoku (a big point for Legionnaires is their off/on taikyoku ability).

Hell if Yakou could block Morei taikyoku attack, please explain me how the hell he got btfo by her in the very beginning then when she unleashed her Taikyoku?

this is actually even more blatant with Ootake since Yakou managed to fend off a normal blass from Ootake but when Ootake activated his Taikyoku later on, he instantly pierced the dimensional fault


Also please

"the different levels of the Singularity being called different dimensions, but it would just be using the word again when I think that what's in the post is more than enough"

where does this comes from? I hope its not what i think it is
 
work out on your writing then because you worded it in such a way that any Dust Angel (in this case, making it sound like any Angel) can which is lmao. Only Belial and Belial
I thought it was obvious enough, since I even mentionned that
一回目
天魔・母禮からの攻撃に使用。
彼女の炎は、宙にある大気、僅かな塵芥、更には空間そのものさえも消滅してのけるので、
空間すら焼き尽くすというのなら、その空間そのものに次元の断層を生み出して防御した。
不和之関での夜行に勝利した攻撃に、勝るとも劣らない連撃だったが、
展開した七つの位相の内三つまでしか焼き尽くせず、防御に成功する。
二回目

天魔・宿儺天魔・大獄の二体の随神相からの攻撃に使用。
蝦夷から不二霊峰まで、山脈すら滅する、小国ならば滅亡必至の同時攻撃を、
掌に具現させた時空の暇(いとま)による障壁で防御した。
そよ風の如しと防ぎきり、防御に成功する。

  • 三回目
天魔・大獄からの攻撃に使用。
彼の拳を止めるために、二回目の十倍以上に練り上げて、二十四の次元断層を使用。
これらは衝撃を相転移する絶対障壁であり、さらに最硬度の防咒を施してある。(同時に自身は瞬間移動を使って後退)
しかし総て貫通されて、防御に失敗し死亡する。

  • 四回目
天魔・大獄からの攻撃に使用。
夜摩閻羅天に覚醒したことで、天魔・大獄の破滅と同種の波動を持つ。
これにより、彼の攻撃を相殺することで、防御?に成功する。

Know that all of these instances, Yakou only succeeded because they weren't using Taikyoku (a big point for Legionnaires is their off/on taikyoku ability).
They litteraly have their Kamunagara (or her Law in the case of Morei) activated in the scenes I presented.
One case out of 4 having the barriers fully breached clearly is just a proof of Ootake being strong.
Hell if Yakou could block Morei taikyoku attack, please explain me how the hell he got btfo by her in the very beginning then when she unleashed her Taikyoku?
Yakou lost the first fight yeah. This scene is the second one.
Also his abilities are stated to be on par with the Tenmas at that point.
this is actually even more blatant with Ootake since Yakou managed to fend off a normal blass from Ootake but when Ootake activated his Taikyoku later on, he instantly pierced the dimensional fault
One of the scene I sent shows that Ootake's Kamunagara was blocked by his dimensional fault.
It just means Yakou dimensional fault can't block everything in the world; which isn't surprising.
"the different levels of the Singularity being called different dimensions, but it would just be using the word again when I think that what's in the post is more than enough"

where does this comes from?
「おまえなど、知らない……!」

だからやめてくれ。触れないでくれ。

ここは危ない。

危険なんだ。

なぜなら此処こそ、特異点の最下層。

蝦夷で最後の鬩ぎ合いが発生したとき、波旬生誕の地である第六天の間の下に、この空隙が生じたのだ。

私にはそれが分かる。おまえも何となくなら分かるだろう。

いいや、私より遙かに感じているんじゃないのか。

このすぐ近くに波旬がいる。

薄皮一枚隔てた程度の次元距離で、波旬の座は存在するんだ。

見つかるぞ、殺されるぞ。奴は何よりもおまえのことを、真に滅ぼそうとしているんだから。

こんなときくらい言うことを聞け。聞けよ馬鹿者――どうしてそんなに私の心を乱すんだ。

頭が悪いのも、頼むから大概にして――

私のために死ぬなんて、どうかお願い、言わないで――

"I don't know who you are...!"

So don't do it. Don't touch me.

This place is dangerous.

It's dangerous.

Because this is the lowest level of the Singularity (特異点).

When the last fight broke out in Ezo (蝦夷), this void was created under the Sixth Heaven, the birthplace of Hajun.

I know it. I can see it, and you can see it too, if only vaguely.

No, you feel it far more than I do, don't you?

Hajun is right here.

Just a thin layer of skin that separates between dimensions, but the seat of Hajun exists there.

He'll find you, he'll kill you. He really wants to destroy you more than anything.

At least listen to me when I say this. Listen to me, you fool--why do you bother me so much?

For God's sake, don't be so stupid.

Please don't tell me you're going to die for me.

Although like I said, it would really just be throwing the word dimension here.
 
Also ngl your way of countering the work itself being a wiki (even if it's atwiki) isn't really the best thing in the world.
 
this is kinda sad.

Shinza's world and character IS pretty rich if actually reading for enjoyment instead of the VSwiki shinangen
IMO people take these crap way too seriously. If Shinza gets ultimately downgraded to 1-B does it really matter? Would it somehow affect your enjoyment reading this chuuni?
It seems people treat verses tiering like their lives are sort of depended on it.

I'm neutral but I don't condone people to randomly to make a CRT especially if they hadn't read it.
 
info that has been gathered by jp fans and even Masada had a hand on it

unlike the singularity bit you just posted and its blatant DeepL translation
Like any wiki. Andrew Hussie used the MSPA wiki, yet we don't use it to prove things about Homestuck. We uses the actual work.

My, my, I wasn't aware that Qliphoth Bacikal true name was DeepL. I already said from where my translations would came from in the OP.
Even got them translated by others so that you can't say that I'm mistranslating on purpose.
 
Anyway so the arguments is basically that they cant be 1-A just cause Masada described them as Higher Dimensional a few times? Everything in Creation has a Law and Concept making it so that it exists and works the way it does, its literally exained that when things exist and function a certain way its due to the existing concepts and laws causing them to function that way such as the concept/law of cutting being applied to blades, and seeing as how dimensions exist within Creation (Ie Yakous 25-D shit) they function and work the way they due to to those laws/concepts, which in turn are seen as simply part of the painting by the Gods?
 
IMO people take these crap way too seriously. If Shinza gets ultimately downgraded to 1-B does it really matter? Would it somehow affect your enjoyment reading this chuuni?
It seems people treat verses tiering like their lives are sort of depended on it.

I'm neutral but I don't condone people to randomly to make a CRT especially if they hadn't read it.
If you think the ratings arnt accurate and you deeply enjoy the series you will generally try to make them accurate or fight to keep them accurate (At least accurate in your opinion), people do take things to serious at times but personally I get more frustrated with the workings of the wiki itself then simply the downgrade.
 
Anyway so the arguments is basically that they cant be 1-A just cause Masada described them as Higher Dimensional a few times?
Not only, although it is a part of it. After all Shinza is supposedly 1-A based on them being above any form of higher D structure, which is directly contradicted by K3.
Everything in Creation has a Law and Concept making it so that it exists and works the way it does,
its literally exained that when things exist and function a certain way its due to the existing concepts and laws causing them to function that way such as the concept/law of cutting being applied to blades,
This I never contradicted. It's just something every verses have so far
and seeing as how dimensions exist within Creation (Ie Yakous 25-D shit) they function and work the way they due to to those laws/concepts, which in turn are seen as simply part of the painting by the Gods?
Thing is, Morei/Sukuna/Ootake were flat out shown to be blocked by these dimensional barriers. Gods are themselves said to be higher dimensional (because Akuro's scene with the painting analogy is talking about his higher-dimensionality, yes), and higher D slash is supposed to hurt them.

Also even if you took this at face value, it still wouldn't be 1-A.
 
Like any wiki. Andrew Hussie used the MSPA wiki, yet we don't use it to prove things about Homestuck.

My, my, I wasn't aware that Qliphoth Bacikal true name was DeepL. I already said from where my translations would came from in the OP.
Why are you copying what Yuri said?
 
Anyway so the arguments is basically that they cant be 1-A just cause Masada described them as Higher Dimensional a few times?
The thread gives more reasonings, such as Higher-D slash being able to cut them or higher-D barriers blocking their attacks.
Everything in Creation has a Law and Concept making it so that it exists and works the way it does, its literally exained that when things exist and function a certain way its due to the existing concepts and laws causing them to function that way such as the concept/law of cutting being applied to blades, and seeing as how dimensions exist within Creation (Ie Yakous 25-D shit) they function and work the way they due to to those laws/concepts, which in turn are seen as simply part of the painting by the Gods?
All concepts coming under laws, including dimensions, doesn’t mean all extansions of them will come under it. Just like how just “being above concepts of space and time” isn’t 1-A, I don’t see why this would be, especially with contradictions to it.
 
I'm not sure why transcending 25 dimensions would allow for 1-A by default. Sure, I can see the idea behind it, but our reality is already three spatial dimensions. If the argument that not caring about if it's three or twenty-five spatial dimensions is 1-A, then any verse that acknowledges spatial dimensions - even if the verse is only a 3D or even 2D reality, could be 1-A with a simple transcending quote.
 
Can you send the context which proves this?

高らかな言葉と共に膨れ上がる咒力の波動。その性質、その独創、覚えがありすぎて母禮の中で嫌悪感が急激に跳ね上がる


穢らわしい邪悪な記憶、汚濁そのものの神威を彼女は思い出していた。


「そうか、やはり貴様だったか。会えて嬉しいとは言わないぞ、波旬」


最早いつ消滅させられてもおかしくない母禮の全霊と相対しながら、夜行はほんの半瞬──眼下で荒れ狂う船上へその視線を垣間よこした。


For Morei second fight, btw since the fight scene is a total of 3 different fights, they aren't connected but here is the main bit

真の名を口にされた今の状態では、こうなるのが道理だ。無敵でありながら何と脆い。強大でありながら、何と儚い。彼ら天魔は、存在しない砂上の楼閣に等しいのだ。


Yakou peering through her existence and citing her true name
 
高らかな言葉と共に膨れ上がる咒力の波動。その性質、その独創、覚えがありすぎて母禮の中で嫌悪感が急激に跳ね上がる


穢らわしい邪悪な記憶、汚濁そのものの神威を彼女は思い出していた。


「そうか、やはり貴様だったか。会えて嬉しいとは言わないぞ、波旬」


最早いつ消滅させられてもおかしくない母禮の全霊と相対しながら、夜行はほんの半瞬──眼下で荒れ狂う船上へその視線を垣間よこした。
It's litteraly after he blocked her tho, like the following lines. So it would prove that she wasn't weakened during this attack more than anything.
 
No? He literally revealed he did that after stating the "read your law name" you posted (which btw, doesn't tell me she activated her taikyoku) which is what i said, he read her divinity and figured her true name. Not like there

Also the scene of Akuro doesn't even state he is higher dimensional. It literally states the relation between him and Soujirou was as such

Yes but he lacks a colour. Therefore, even if he was close, he lacks a core component of Taikyoku and thus it isn't even remotely close to Tenmas (this is again heavily emphasised on Ootake vs Yakou) (also it said ability not power)
 
Also the scene of Akuro doesn't even state he is higher dimensional. It literally states the relation between him and Soujirou was as such
This is answered in the thread:
I can see an arguement like "The difference between them is just referred like Higher-Dimensional/Lower-Dimensional difference, that doesn't have to mean they are bound by dimensions" being made (can see it because someone already said this before).

The previous thread justified it as "Interestingly, the difference between Soujirou and Akuro was actually called "Phase Difference" which, despite being visibly the same, is a gap much greater in scale compared to Dimensional Difference. This could also be simplified as "Taikyoku vs Non-Taikyoku difference".

Which could make sense, if you ignored the context. First thing Soujiro mentions about Akuto is how he has seen "another phase of physics rather than stubbornness", which clearly implies the charecter in question being higher dimensional, with it still being within physics, unlike what was argued in the thread which made them keep their rating.

There's also the fact that "phase" (位相) was actually used for the world or Yakou's dimensionnal dislocation/fault, hinting to the fact that it IS meant to indicate higher dimensionnal difference and making the idea of it being something else flat out wrong.
 
I would personally stay completelly neutral in Shinza stuff especially when it comes to scaling. The fact that more than a half of the whole series is not translated nor finished also adds onto it but as well as the fact that, whenever trying to interpet these things and scale them properly it simply just all sounds extremely, vague. I am sure many can agree that alot of things in the verse are not that straightforward especially about the subject of dimensions as we have again very vague info about their function and it extremely depends on personal interpetation, yet again.
But what can you do,
I mean i wish that shinza profiles were not even ever made until the series was localized, especially and mainly Kajiri Kamui Kagura, but yet here it is its too late.
Again main issue comes from the vague sounding of all things in the verse to scale it which also connects with the lack of material in the series about these things.
But i belive they will get downgraded again, and again just because of that so, yeah.
There is also the who translated this "who translated that", "is it fake translation". Yadda yadda.
Anyways as i do not care about the tiering of shinza and will they be set from a one number letter to other number letter on a powerscaling site, i noticed that alot of people dislike shinza- Only thing i can think of is because of some fans that wank the hell out of the verse in a sense they a) don't know what are they talking about b)do not have proof and use their own weird interpetation which usually ends up being wank as well, and well, sometimes sounds like downplay actually? Again this thread will turn into a chaos larger than the thread on which Shinza was downgraded from high 1-A. Nobody should waste their nerves on this as much as they do, for the reasons i mentioned above.
To me, its just sad that i will probably never be able to read Kajiri Kamui Kagura, and it seems like a very interesting concept and setting, generally looks cool and i think that is when combined with "ah yes they are 1-A bro" it looked even cooler since you knew they were crazy overpowered lol. That was at least me first time when i discovered vs stuff and shinza-
Nevermind that
Also, when i said you should not waste your nerves as much , i also mean that you should not make alt accounts to say "I AgRee WiTh ThE DoWngRadE", since thats not what effects the result of the thread either way, and just makes you look miserable.
And also i had a acc before but i lost access to it so i made this new one, so just in case anyone will take notice that i am on a newer account and i am being hypocritical for saying my previous statement :v
That is all i would ever say onto powerscaling shinza..
 
Which could make sense, if you ignored the context. First thing Soujiro mentions about Akuto is how he has seen "another phase of physics rather than stubbornness", which clearly implies the charecter in question being higher dimensional, with it still being within physics, unlike what was argued in the thread which made them keep their rating.

Soujirou doesn't even mention? Interaction was explained by omniscient author.
 
No? He literally revealed he did that after stating the "read your law name" you posted (which btw, doesn't tell me she activated her taikyoku) which is what i said, he read her divinity and figured her true name. Not like there

Also the scene of Akuro doesn't even state he is higher dimensional. It literally states the relation between him and Soujirou was as such

Yes but he lacks a colour. Therefore, even if he was close, he lacks a core component of Taikyoku and thus it isn't even remotely close to Tenmas (this is again heavily emphasised on Ootake vs Yakou) (also it said ability not power)
The way the sentence is says that he did so after saying this. And it's flat out said she used her law, which we also acknowledge so far. I especially brought the greater context to avoid most "we don't know if Taiji was activated".

It explains that their difference is an higher-dimensional one, with Akuro being from a higher dimension. Even reusing the terminology used for dimensions in general.
The idea that "it's Shinza, so the text saying things actually wanted to mean they have a huge 1-A difference" shouldn't even exist to begin with. Something is said, we have to accept it.

His lack of colour mostly mean that he can't rewrite shit, since he has no law to impose. Also having "his abilities on the level of the Tenmas" isn't referring to him being as good at basketball and can't refers to ability as manipulation stuff since the whole thing is that he can't rewrite.
He got stomped by Ootake yeah, however Ootake is like, one of the strongest Tenma while his previous feats and statements all are toward him handling them.
 
The way the sentence is says that he did so after saying this. And it's flat out said she used her law, which we also acknowledge so far. I especially brought the greater context to avoid most "we don't know if Taiji was activated".

It explains that their difference is an higher-dimensional one, with Akuro being from a higher dimension. Even reusing the terminology used for dimensions in general.
The idea that "it's Shinza, so the text saying things actually wanted to mean they have a huge 1-A difference" shouldn't even exist to begin with. Something is said, we have to accept it.

His lack of colour mostly mean that he can't rewrite shit, since he has no law to impose. Also having "his abilities on the level of the Tenmas" isn't referring to him being as good at basketball and can't refers to ability as manipulation stuff since the whole thing is that he can't rewrite.
He got stomped by Ootake yeah, however Ootake is like, one of the strongest Tenma while his previous feats and statements all are toward him handling them.
just about the lack of colour. No. Having no colour means Ootake is impervious to anything Yakou might do.

Also like Law being mentionned (this is for Morei) isn't even necessarily a thing refering to Atziluth/Taikyoku because Briah is also used in such case. And Tenmas have shown the ability to use Briah

Anyway this is the last thing i'll post
 
Vs debating should be secondary to almost everything a human being can do.
Well, Almost.
It's pretty obvious yeah. Or at least it should be.
Wondering who has the biggest dick between weird spaghetti dudes, some writers guy, or abstract boring things should just be the random hobby you picked up and do when you have time to spare.
 
Given nothing has been strongly refuted so far, I’m inclined to lean towards agreeing with the downgrade. (Even if votes don’t count at the moment.)
 
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if this get accepted what are the other incoming revisions btw?
Getting actual cool sprites for profile where it isn't the case.
Adding what we acknowledge but didn't apply already.
Adding new stuff.
Better organisation of stuff on profiles.
Little project of converting most scans to imgur format with their translation on it too.
Some possible changes and removals.
And more stuff I didn't decide on yet.
 
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IMG_20210406_210504.jpg

Off-topic, but I felt like sharing the news on an upcoming Shinza/Umineko collab
 
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