Discord (IDW) upgrade

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Discord's mind was not a pocket dimension or whatever bunk you want to make up. It was shown to be a very real, very phsyical dimension in the Accord arc, in whch Luna and Twilight were regularly interacting with the dimension and its physical walls. Its defiently a dimension, and defiently infinite in size.

Also by your very own logic, Luna would be High 3-A. Which would actually be consistent with POS saying she had infinite power.

Then you know, destroying the fabric of the universe and his statement in the cartoon about reshaping all of reality. But I guess 2 feats, 5 statements and like a dozen casual Tier 4 feats isn't enough. Bleh.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I want to agree with Discord's mind being an actual dimension, but then how do we know it isn't similar in nature to the dream realm where only your mental self is interacting with it? Luna even interacted with his mind in the same way she typically does: Entering via dreams.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think DarkAnine makes sense. Also, good to see him here.

 

[DoggoRoboto]

I want to agree with Discord's mind being an actual dimension, but then how do we know it isn't similar in nature to the dream realm where only your mental self is interacting with it? Luna even interacted with his mind in the same way she typically does: Entering via dreams.

Accord arc. It was shown to not even be just a dream dimension since Discord wasn't dreaming when it Luna and Twily entered it, but a bonafide reality.

I think DarkAnine makes sense. Also, good to see him here.

hiding in plain site *sunglasses emoji*

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

So, at least High 3-A?

 

[Lightbuster30]

I want to agree with Discord's mind being an actual dimension, but then how do we know it isn't similar in nature to the dream realm where only your mental self is interacting with it? Luna even interacted with his mind in the same way she typically does: Entering via dreams.

Accord arc. It was shown to not even be just a dream dimension since Discord wasn't dreaming when it Luna and Twily entered it, but a bonafide reality.
Were the doors part of the dream or his mind in general? That makes or breaks the feat. I'm assuming the doors were part of his nightmare considering both him and Luna call them as such. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mwtDTA7fiHQ/VtQboFjTT9I/AAAAAAAAMiU/fRqUrwlr__8/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg

Luna: What am I seeing here? This doesn't look like a nightmare.


Discord: It's the worst one.
This is after going through multiple doors and Luna clearly expected it to be a Nightmare, while Discord outright calls it one.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm not sure what you mean. Didn't I explain it in my reply?

What do you mean with AE type 2?

 

[Antvasima]

Look, I just want to make certain that we are not allowing any upgrades based on unreliable unproven hyperbolic statements or personal dreamscapes. That is all. This is no different from our usual evaluation standards.

If Discord has a legitimate infinite physical dimension inside of him, and it isn't just his regular consciousness that Luna can enter, I suppose that High 3-A may be in order.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, please elaborate about the Pony of Shadows consuming his entire universe.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm not sure what you mean. Didn't I explain it in my reply?

What do you mean with AE type 2?

AE is short fror Abstract Existence.

Comment no23 https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3587527#23

I suggested giving Accord and Discord type 2 abstract existence. Which you on comment no24 didn't seem to object to.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I did not notice your suggestion or respond to it earlier.

I do not think that destroying the concept of chaos itself is necessary to kill Discord, given how he can be depowered quite easily.

Type 3 Abstract Existence seems more reliable.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Okay. I did not notice your suggestion or respond to it earlier.
I do not think that destroying the concept of chaos itself is necessary to kill Discord, given how he can be depowered quite easily.

Type 3 Abstract Existence seems more reliable.

First off: Depowering doesn't mean he can be killed. He's still a living creature of chaos without it. Even with his magic disabled, he was still able to live and stay conscious without his own brain, even though having your brain turned to stone would, you know, kill you? He clearly doesn't need a body to actually be alive.

Secondly, he doesn't necessarily need the concept of chaos to be destroyed to be killed. If we're to apply what Accord said to Discord, but with chaos instead of order, you'd only have to get people to stop wanting chaos.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Nuetral on the Upgrades tbh

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am neutral regarding Abstract Existence then, but I do not recall any convincing evidence for it either at the moment.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I really don't see what hyperbolic about the statements; he specifically says that they can break worlds (which is how the story refers to universes), and he specifically says that they could overrun entire realities and leave them empty and corrupted.

We also know that he is talking about their destructive power, and not so "specific hax" or whatever, since he clearly mention their infinite power for Destruction, and even mentions that he "thought he's have to settle for doing the destroying by himself", which is consistent with the fact that the Pony of Shadows was stated in another issue to have devoured the lights of his own world, and now hunger for the taste of a new one (which also backs up it being literal, and not any kind of figure of speech), and I even posted the entire story for you to go check and make sure I'm not taking anything out of context.

Thse statements are consistent through the story, meaning it isn't one time hyperboly, they are specifically talking about their destructive power, meaning it isn't vague, and they're not taken out of context, so I really don't get what the problem is here. If you think these statements aren't useful, please explain why, because so far you've just been said they're vague or hyperbolic without explaining why, even after I provided the context that you asked for.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Being the unifying principle of a concept, existing within everyone who desires said concept, and being a living force of nature (Discord was somber when he said this, so he wasn't exagerrating) who desires it sounds pretty convincing to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Taken on its own, breaking worlds can mean anything from shattering planets and upwards, and conquering and potentially ruling over realities is not remotely automatically the same as destroying them in a single strike.

Devouring the lights of his world is support for 3-A, if it means absorbing an entire universe filled with stars in one go.

Containing an infinitely large reality inside of himself is also support for High 3-A as long as it wasn't just a regular dreamscape, given Luna's specific involvement.

Anyway, I have limited time, focus, and energy available to argue, and am just trying to make sure that we make the profiles as reliable as possible. You should ask some administrators to comment here as well.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yes, you are correct, taken on its own, breaking worlds can mean anything, however, it's not being taken on its own; this story uses "world" as a way to refer to alternative universes multiple times:

• "You will recal on several occasions, I have used magical portals to explore other worlds."
• "So, you knew a version of me from this world?"
• "I saw it in the ones from my world."
• "Your Luna opened a path to my world."

This is also consistent with how the term "world" has been used in other story arcs where they go to other universes:

• "Our world is only one of many. There are an infinite number of worlds around us."
• "The walls between the worlds are clumbling."
• "The worlds are... merging?"

When it comes to IDW stories about alternate universes, when they say "world", they mean another universe.

 

[Antvasima]

You may be correct, but it is still a very vague statement in itself. As such, I would prefer if you ask other staff members to comment here. Thanks.

Promestei, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Dark649, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, DarkDragonMedeus, Andytrenom, AKM sama, Dargoo Faust, Wokista, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok, I asked a few of them, althrough I'm a little busy with something myself right now, so I don't really have the time to go to every single one right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Why would we not assume Discord's reality contains only space? They would be eternally frozen if his mind dimension had no time in it. Scratch that, they likely wouldn;t be able to exist in his mind in the first place. However, Discord's mind being infinite comes from having infinite doors leading to infinite nightmares, which were agreed to not be actual dimensions (otherwise Cartoon MLP would be 4-A)

 

[DoggoRoboto]

Ignoring the fact that Ponies physically interact with objects in dreams and get hurt from locations in them, regardless if Discord's infinite series of nightmares are infinite dimensions, it's still an infinite series of spaces, and thus still infinite in scope. As I said before, the very same place was visited in Accord, but was changed dramatically. We can tell this was the same place since Luna said that she didn't recognize it, meaning it was the same place she traveled beforehand.

Celestia was also deathly serious when she said the fabric of the world was being destroyed. Ignoring the fact that World has met universe in several instances, even if this "somehow" referred to just a planet, it wouldn't make make sense. What would destroying the fabric of a planet even mea? It's obviously the universe.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Ignoring the fact that Ponies physically interact with objects in dreams and get hurt from locations in them,

Hmm, I think you may have given me an idea.

4-A cartoon MLP inbound.

 

[Promestein]

'World' obviously means universe. I'm fine with Low 2-C.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

@Lightbuster30 Oh no.

 

[Lightbuster30]

@Lightbuster30 Oh no.

Oh yes.

 

[Lightbuster30]

'World' obviously means universe. I'm fine with Low 2-C.

What about Discord claiming he can control all of reality in the finale? And Pinkie Pie claiming she can warp the cosmos?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Celestia was also deathly serious when she said the fabric of the world was being destroyed. Ignoring the fact that World has met universe in several instances, even if this "somehow" referred to just a planet, it wouldn't make make sense. What would destroying the fabric of a planet even mea? It's obviously the universe.

Obviously the planet is made out of cloth.

 

[DoggoRoboto]

Which only means Rarity is a planet buster.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Soling verses while looking fabulous as possible.

 

[Js250476]

Lowkey Nightmare Rarity is probably 4-A bare minimum

 

[DoggoRoboto]

Nightmare Rarity is equal or stronger than Luna, so whatever we rate Alicorns as, she scales to that.

I'm still confused as to what IDW Alicorns are gonna be tier wise. 4-A seems to come from Discord, but Discord is prob gonna get upgraded, unless 4-A comes from the PoS statements regarding Luna.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Bookworm is also 4-A remember.

 

[DoggoRoboto]

No one really directly scales to Bookworm though. We scaled Discord and people on his level to him since he's above pretty much everyone, but their was no instance of Alicorn-level characters really hurting him. Twilight defeated him by pleading to his humanity (or...wormanity?) not through violence.

 

[Js250476]

Given that Prom went with low 2-C and based on what Paulo speculated earlier it's probably referring to POS's statements about Celestia and Luna.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Nightmare Rarity is equal or stronger than Luna, so whatever we rate Alicorns as, she scales to that.
I'm still confused as to what IDW Alicorns are gonna be tier wise. 4-A seems to come from Discord, but Discord is prob gonna get upgraded, unless 4-A comes from the PoS statements regarding Luna.

Discord has been consistiently portrayed as only a few times stronger than Celestia though. The current finale implies he can be overpowered by a x3 gap (each villain was at least alicorn tier when empowered by Grogar's bell). And was Twilight slowing down the expansion of his reality bubble? She said she can't hold it back any longer, which implies she was holding it back before.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait, can't you actually feel pain in dreams irl? Is there anything else suggesting dreams are dimensions or at the very least actual places? I think better evidence would be Luna outright calling whereever dreams happen "The Dream Realm". We need to make sure what happens in the dreams aren't just represenations of the real world.

 

[DoggoRoboto]

As far as I can tell, IRL pain in dreams comes from real-world things that could hurt you, like health problems. Scootaloo was very clearly getting hurt from things in her dream, like bumping her head into a wall, even though she wasn't shown getting hurt in the waking world. I don't really know, though, but I personally never quite got why we treated them as stuff that didn't exist.

This is the only scholarly write-up I could find that wasn't pseudoscience nonsense but I can't really follow medical terms and stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that I can support High 3-A, but I see no proof of destroying or creating entire universal continuums.