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Think we can do some edits now?
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Digimon Adventure Revisions
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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We have Digimon from Tier 10 to Tier 1 for now, only one Tier 0 is missing to complete the list :v
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- #43
Actually before that I have a proposition.
The 3-C stats should only be for their Digimon Adventure stats.
We should have a separate key for their Mega Forms without a tamer.
For Example
Your Everyday Wargreymon is 4-B
Digimon Adventure WarGreymon is 3-C.
The 3-C stats should only be for their Digimon Adventure stats.
We should have a separate key for their Mega Forms without a tamer.
For Example
Your Everyday Wargreymon is 4-B
Digimon Adventure WarGreymon is 3-C.
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I'd be fine with that.
Has Reppuzan given his opinion on this matter yet? I'd like to see what he has to say before this revision first, tht is, if he has the time.
Has Reppuzan given his opinion on this matter yet? I'd like to see what he has to say before this revision first, tht is, if he has the time.
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Well, I agree with your idea.
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This also means MANY files need fixing i.e another 70+ files. Every Perfect and Ultimate Class Digimon that is 6-B and Low 5-B will need to be fixed....This includes Cyber Sleuth as well.....
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- #47
Also what about Kid Lucemon. Does he scale to Perfects as well?
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Thank the lord Digimon can get out of the "Low" portion of every tier. I can't be the only one who ws slightly triggered by, say, Greymon having Low 7-B, Low 6-B and Low 5-B on his profile.
Actually how would we handle TRI Adults now?
Actually how would we handle TRI Adults now?
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And just when I thought I could get help revising the Pokémon profiles... And just when I thought the gap couldn't get any bigger.
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- #50
@Cal I'll be able to help more later. We are kinda just waiting for Reppu.
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- #51
What were the Adult feats again from TRI?
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Greymon, Garurumon, Togemon and I think Ikkakumon, with combined strength, held back Meicrakmon VM. We rated it as Low 6-B since Country level cut in four, but I dunno what to do now. Maybe scale them to Wendimon?
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- #53
Well Meicrakmon VM would be "At least 4-C" so simply 4-C is fine. Also in the meanwhile I will be cleaning up our Adventure files. Most of them still use very old terminology and are kinda incomplete.
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Since Reppuzan is probably to busy to participate, I guess we can start editing them now.
If you edit MetalEtemon's page, I can edit those who scale off of him until I have to leave.
If you edit MetalEtemon's page, I can edit those who scale off of him until I have to leave.
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- #55
mkay.
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Ok so this might be one of the biggest revisions happening to Digimon which is why I want to make sure you guys don't accidently forget some profiles again.
Perfect/Ultimate lvl Digimons: 5-A - 4-B
Ultimate/Mega lvl Digimons: 4-B - 3-C
Super Ultimate/Ultra lvl Digimons: Don't know what tier they are in
Tri era Champion lvl Digimons: 4-C
Than we have files that were missed during previous revisions.
Seven Great Demon Lords: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A Cyber Sleuth and True Form.
True Form Three Great Angels: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A scaling to True Form Seven Great Demon Lords.
Ogudomon: Varies. Atleast 2-C to High 2-A. Up to Low 1-C scaling to True Form Lucemon.
Sealed Zeedmilleniumon: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A superior to Yggdrasil and Mother Eater. Considered the single greatest threat to the Digital World by Homeostasis, a being with "infinite knowledge", and thus should be immensely above even the true forms of The Seven Great Demon Lords.
That's all right?
Perfect/Ultimate lvl Digimons: 5-A - 4-B
Ultimate/Mega lvl Digimons: 4-B - 3-C
Super Ultimate/Ultra lvl Digimons: Don't know what tier they are in
Tri era Champion lvl Digimons: 4-C
Than we have files that were missed during previous revisions.
Seven Great Demon Lords: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A Cyber Sleuth and True Form.
True Form Three Great Angels: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A scaling to True Form Seven Great Demon Lords.
Ogudomon: Varies. Atleast 2-C to High 2-A. Up to Low 1-C scaling to True Form Lucemon.
Sealed Zeedmilleniumon: Atleast 2-A Likely High 2-A superior to Yggdrasil and Mother Eater. Considered the single greatest threat to the Digital World by Homeostasis, a being with "infinite knowledge", and thus should be immensely above even the true forms of The Seven Great Demon Lords.
That's all right?
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Seems alright.
Super Ultimates are usually judged by their own feats/personal power-scaling, but typically end up in the 3-A/Low 2-C - 2-A range.
Super Ultimates are usually judged by their own feats/personal power-scaling, but typically end up in the 3-A/Low 2-C - 2-A range.
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- Thread starter
- #58
Done with Etemon's tier.
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- Thread starter
- #59
Wait Adventure Perfects are 4-B?
EDIT: nvm....
EDIT: nvm....
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Ultimates (using Dub terminology because this is getting confusing) scale directly off of AtlurKabuterimon, who has a 4-B feat. I thought this was what was agreed?
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- #62
Yeah I forgot. Would this apply to regular Etemon tho?
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- #63
@Dark You forgot to edit Agumon's Durability. XD
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@Crop
I knew I forgot to update something. I'll get to that
@Dragon
I don't think he ever fought the Mega's as Etemon, so At least 4-C might be good as a safe lowball.
I knew I forgot to update something. I'll get to that
@Dragon
I don't think he ever fought the Mega's as Etemon, so At least 4-C might be good as a safe lowball.
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So, this argument kinda came up.
"The problem I had with it was the same the author pointed out: the killing of Vademon might have had something to do with it rather than MegaKabuterimon outright destroying the whole thing. That's something we can only know through the episode transcripts. And also there's the fact Ebemon's (Vademon's evolved form) strongest attack is said to be capable of instantly destroying a single planet even with all of it's gun accumulated energy (as stated by the Digimon Reference Book). From that, we can conclude two things: - Either someone is overestimating some of the Digimon's power; Or - The Adventure scalling does not apply to the rest of the Digimon series"
What do you guys think?
"The problem I had with it was the same the author pointed out: the killing of Vademon might have had something to do with it rather than MegaKabuterimon outright destroying the whole thing. That's something we can only know through the episode transcripts. And also there's the fact Ebemon's (Vademon's evolved form) strongest attack is said to be capable of instantly destroying a single planet even with all of it's gun accumulated energy (as stated by the Digimon Reference Book). From that, we can conclude two things: - Either someone is overestimating some of the Digimon's power; Or - The Adventure scalling does not apply to the rest of the Digimon series"
What do you guys think?
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Ebemon is irrelevant here, his reference book entry implies he was even created in America, so he's in no way connected to Digimon Adventure Vademon.
Was it ever stated that he only killed Vademon? I don't think it was, the aftermath of the event seems to show the dimension getting busted and everything that surrounded it in the Digital World shaking.
Worst case Scenario they get downgraded to High 4-C for being vastly superior to Wendimon, but I think 4-B is okay.
Was it ever stated that he only killed Vademon? I don't think it was, the aftermath of the event seems to show the dimension getting busted and everything that surrounded it in the Digital World shaking.
Worst case Scenario they get downgraded to High 4-C for being vastly superior to Wendimon, but I think 4-B is okay.
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-Even though the Mysterious Universe was destroyed only because of Vademon's death this would not end the feat, because although Altur Kabuterimon's feat is no longer to destroy the pocket-universe, there is still that of Vademon to sustain with his powers a realm with This size (creation and sustenance of different dimensions counts for the power of the character, an example is Hades which is 2-C for creating and sustaining its dimensions of universe size).
-Even though the author of the DRB intends that Ebemon destroy only one planet does not change the fact that there is the 4-C / 4-B feat of the Vademon. If the authors wanted only Ebemon and more powerful beings to have that power then they should not have given 4-C / 4-B feats for Adult and Perfect Digimon. Feats > Author 's intention.
Moreover, the feat to be planetary can only be linked to the fact that the limitation of the earthly technology that can diminish the reach of the attacks, or we do not know the level of the destruction of the planet, or the characteristics of the planet in question. Of course, this kind of thing should never be taken into account in planetary exploits and if you say "can destroy a planet" should be considered only the minimum, however any of the points that I indicated is much easier to be accepted than simply Deny other feats because of a contradiction between the Author's Intention and feats in the work in question.
-Even though the author of the DRB intends that Ebemon destroy only one planet does not change the fact that there is the 4-C / 4-B feat of the Vademon. If the authors wanted only Ebemon and more powerful beings to have that power then they should not have given 4-C / 4-B feats for Adult and Perfect Digimon. Feats > Author 's intention.
Moreover, the feat to be planetary can only be linked to the fact that the limitation of the earthly technology that can diminish the reach of the attacks, or we do not know the level of the destruction of the planet, or the characteristics of the planet in question. Of course, this kind of thing should never be taken into account in planetary exploits and if you say "can destroy a planet" should be considered only the minimum, however any of the points that I indicated is much easier to be accepted than simply Deny other feats because of a contradiction between the Author's Intention and feats in the work in question.
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- #71
Not to mention Digimon like Imperialdramon Fighter Mode and MirageGaogamon BM would be weaker than Wendimon and DarkSuperStarmon since their entry only details Planetary destruction.
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Although I side with Drafon and Executor, outliers are possible. But again, I don't believe that's the case in the slightest. Not even playing Devil's Advocate.
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Again with the Drafo Cal!!!!
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With Wendimon having a High 4-C feat and Vademon destroying Stars in the Novel, I don't think it's at all an outlier.
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I swear this only happens on my phone!! :cries:
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@Cal mhmm...Suuuuuuurrree
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So we have a new argument.
"Ah, yes.
In the entire fight, Vademon attacked with asteroids and planets. In one scen in particular, MegaKabuterimon got hit by a Saturn-like planet that seemed to look like it was ten times it's size. In the novel, Koushiro sat on top of a blue planet, similiar to earth. Weird, I don't remember him actually being the size of a small continent. Could it be that everything, from the stars, to the planets and asteroids were actually miniaturized?
Previously, one of the characters had this to say: "I see. The size of this universe was greatly reduced, which means time here is also shortened!"
A rather curious statement, it falls into place perfectly with my beliefs that everything in that place was actually smaller than what they should have been. Taking into account the fact that Vademon's signature attack was to hurl, not to create and then hurl planets and asteroids.
I'll link you to the novel: http://digitalscratch.pmsinfirm.org/5719
Close to the end, something happened that greatly powers up my case:
"When they left the mountain hut, they found thenselves at the summit.
"What's going on?" Motimon asked Koushiro, confused. Because he had used up all of his energy, he had degenerated once more.
"I think the peak covered in clouds was an illusion made by Vadermon," Koushiro answered with a sunny smile."
(Keep in mind, that at the beggining of the novel, the mountain seemed to have no peak, giving credibility to Izzy's answer)
It all points us to one thing: everything that happened in that mountain was an illusion, a trick, a facade to make Koushiro give up his Inquisitive Heart. When MegaKabuterimon kills Vadermon, the illusion must have been dispelled! This explains how were they able to bust out from the mountain top. Even the novels were it is stated that Vadermon was destroying stars (miniature suns) does not mention any kind of "dimensional destruction", only the death of Vadermon and the dispelling of his illusion.
And of course, Ebemon is confirmed small star level via the Digimon Reference Book. If anything, the Mega's could scale to that.
04:15
Kabuterimon Ultra digievoluciona en Megakabuterimon-0
This very video, at 2:07 showcases displays MegaKabuterimon clinging to 1/10 of the planet. This is, of course, just my assumption. We could send this over to the calculation group to determine how big the planet was compared to Kabuterimon. We can, however, clearly see that it wasn't by much at all."
"Ah, yes.
In the entire fight, Vademon attacked with asteroids and planets. In one scen in particular, MegaKabuterimon got hit by a Saturn-like planet that seemed to look like it was ten times it's size. In the novel, Koushiro sat on top of a blue planet, similiar to earth. Weird, I don't remember him actually being the size of a small continent. Could it be that everything, from the stars, to the planets and asteroids were actually miniaturized?
Previously, one of the characters had this to say: "I see. The size of this universe was greatly reduced, which means time here is also shortened!"
A rather curious statement, it falls into place perfectly with my beliefs that everything in that place was actually smaller than what they should have been. Taking into account the fact that Vademon's signature attack was to hurl, not to create and then hurl planets and asteroids.
I'll link you to the novel: http://digitalscratch.pmsinfirm.org/5719
Close to the end, something happened that greatly powers up my case:
"When they left the mountain hut, they found thenselves at the summit.
"What's going on?" Motimon asked Koushiro, confused. Because he had used up all of his energy, he had degenerated once more.
"I think the peak covered in clouds was an illusion made by Vadermon," Koushiro answered with a sunny smile."
(Keep in mind, that at the beggining of the novel, the mountain seemed to have no peak, giving credibility to Izzy's answer)
It all points us to one thing: everything that happened in that mountain was an illusion, a trick, a facade to make Koushiro give up his Inquisitive Heart. When MegaKabuterimon kills Vadermon, the illusion must have been dispelled! This explains how were they able to bust out from the mountain top. Even the novels were it is stated that Vadermon was destroying stars (miniature suns) does not mention any kind of "dimensional destruction", only the death of Vadermon and the dispelling of his illusion.
And of course, Ebemon is confirmed small star level via the Digimon Reference Book. If anything, the Mega's could scale to that.
04:15
Kabuterimon Ultra digievoluciona en Megakabuterimon-0
This very video, at 2:07 showcases displays MegaKabuterimon clinging to 1/10 of the planet. This is, of course, just my assumption. We could send this over to the calculation group to determine how big the planet was compared to Kabuterimon. We can, however, clearly see that it wasn't by much at all."
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Just so you guys know, I got small continent sized Koushiro from... This:
http://www.giantessworld.net/convertor.html
Just don't ask me how I found this. Just don't. If the forum needs any kind of giant calculation, this is the best site there is to it.
http://www.giantessworld.net/convertor.html
Just don't ask me how I found this. Just don't. If the forum needs any kind of giant calculation, this is the best site there is to it.
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When it was mentioned this scene of a planet was only said that Vademon was in Zen posture in the top of a planet, never related the size of the Vademon with the the planet, we can see a representation of this in the Digimon Adventure PSP.
The mention to be incredibly reduced refers to being a distorted space-time so that the universe fits within a tiny quarter, this is referenced in Novel itself. If they were miniatures there would not have to be this comment since it would not be impressive to fit so many things if they were small in size.
It was only said that the mountain not having a top was an illusion of Vademon, nothing was said that the dimension of Vademon was part of that illusion. Further being an illusion is completely ridiculous since it is in that distorted space-time situation that Koushiro was able to connect with the Taichi that was on Earth.
In fact Koushiro himself directs the illusion to only the clouds covering the mountain and the endless cycle in the ascent, he never mentioned anything about the Mistery Universe also being an illusion.
| Vadermon first made Koushiro sit, in the Zen meditation posture, on top of a blue planet that looked similar to Earth, and spoke. |
| Koushiro was led to the "Room of the Mysterious Universe." It had no ceiling, walls, or floors to contain it, just a strange air-space that expanded indefinitely. With a diameter of 2-3 meters, the room was rather small, and yet it contained the Sun and the planets, even asteroid belts. |
| "How far away is it to the peak"; Koushiro asked, to which Vadermon replied, "What makes you believe that this mountain has a peak?" "But it`s only natural for a mountain to have a peak", Koushiro answered. Vadermon slowly shook his head. "This is your first time climbing this mountain, is it not? And yet, you have come to the conclusion that this mountain is the same as the others. You put to use your current knowledge, limited in what you only know so far, and you have reasoned that this mountain is probably no different. Is that correct?" |
| "I think the peak covered in clouds was an illusion made by Vadermon," Koushiro answered with a sunny smile. |
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That was a good argument, but there are some flaws to it. For starters, what does it mean to be sitting on top of a planet? It'd look like this: http://fdzeta.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/_images_characters_6_81472.jpg
Of course, for Koushiro to be sitting in the zen meditation posture he ought have been smaller than that, not so much though, as you can see for yourself with the conversor I linked this thread.
The size of the room matters not, as the biggest planet on-screen was around ten times the size of MegaKabuterimon, seeing as how he could wrap his arms around it. Even if they were miniatures, it would still be as impressive due to the existance of planets and stars bigger than MegaKabuterimon in such a small room, don't you think? (The size of the room was never stated in the anime, by the way)
If you have watched the episode, the novel and the episode both contradict each other, don't you think? But seeing as how you're using both as one and the same, I'll return the favor. There are two and a half illusions before the main one if we use all sources available:
The first one being that neither Koushiro nor Tentomon could reach the mountain top after climbing the mountain for an unspecified amount of days. I can, however, guarantee you that it was more than a week as Tentomon in the novel cannot recall how many days had passed since they first set a foot on the mountain. Obviously, it was the illusion messing with their perception of space-time. Sounds familiar, don't you think? (And I'm not even going to point it out that they did neither drink nor eat anything while they were at it)
The second one was an anime-only event where they fell inside what appeared to be an endless hole. A mysterious voice (later revealed to be Vadermon) called out to them and doomed the duo to go to hell. The scene was followed up by Koushiro and Tentomon being save by... lifeguards that could float in a space Tentomon could not. That illusion could have very well lead to another illusion, because shortly after, Vadermon brought them to his "Mysterious Universe" of his. Very convenient.
While inside that dimension, their perception of space-time were messed with again. This time, they spent 71 days (without eating and drinking again) inside that place. Strangely enough, Vadermon showcased no signs of being affected by the place, his perception of time was unnafected (because the whole thing was an illusion casted on both Koushiro and Tentomon).
DemiDevimon jumped inside the same hole the duo fell in and didn't suffer from any of the effects they did. Why? Because Vadermon was not paying attetion, causing the hole to be nothing more than a hole that leads directly to Vadermon's hut.
In the anime, no stars were destroyed. the first attack of Vadermon was to hurl a bunch of asteroids on Kabuterimon and then, when he evolved, a relatively large planet (to MegaKabuterimon) and a asteroid field, which MegaKabuterimon destroyed along with Vadermon with his Horn Buster and that was the end of it. We're using both the novel and anime here, so-
Wait. I just noticed something. I can't find the Wakusei nor the Hoshi Kanji anywhere on that game scan, but I can see the modern Tentai! Tentai in japanese means celestial object, it could mean either planet or star. It's the eight kanji in the scan. It makes so much more sense now, it was a mistranslation.
You see, the translator must have assumed those were stars that were being blown to smithereens, when in reality, what was being destroyed by Vadermon were his fake planets. We all know stars can't be "blown to smithereens", but planets can. "Then why he could identify that Izzy was sitting on top of a earth-like planet before?" It's rather simple: first of all, Izzy couldn't be sitting on top of a star, second and most important of all is the description that the celestial object receives.
To confirm that I need the original japanese novel so that I can see what Kanji is used when referring to the stars.
Of course, for Koushiro to be sitting in the zen meditation posture he ought have been smaller than that, not so much though, as you can see for yourself with the conversor I linked this thread.
The size of the room matters not, as the biggest planet on-screen was around ten times the size of MegaKabuterimon, seeing as how he could wrap his arms around it. Even if they were miniatures, it would still be as impressive due to the existance of planets and stars bigger than MegaKabuterimon in such a small room, don't you think? (The size of the room was never stated in the anime, by the way)
If you have watched the episode, the novel and the episode both contradict each other, don't you think? But seeing as how you're using both as one and the same, I'll return the favor. There are two and a half illusions before the main one if we use all sources available:
The first one being that neither Koushiro nor Tentomon could reach the mountain top after climbing the mountain for an unspecified amount of days. I can, however, guarantee you that it was more than a week as Tentomon in the novel cannot recall how many days had passed since they first set a foot on the mountain. Obviously, it was the illusion messing with their perception of space-time. Sounds familiar, don't you think? (And I'm not even going to point it out that they did neither drink nor eat anything while they were at it)
The second one was an anime-only event where they fell inside what appeared to be an endless hole. A mysterious voice (later revealed to be Vadermon) called out to them and doomed the duo to go to hell. The scene was followed up by Koushiro and Tentomon being save by... lifeguards that could float in a space Tentomon could not. That illusion could have very well lead to another illusion, because shortly after, Vadermon brought them to his "Mysterious Universe" of his. Very convenient.
While inside that dimension, their perception of space-time were messed with again. This time, they spent 71 days (without eating and drinking again) inside that place. Strangely enough, Vadermon showcased no signs of being affected by the place, his perception of time was unnafected (because the whole thing was an illusion casted on both Koushiro and Tentomon).
DemiDevimon jumped inside the same hole the duo fell in and didn't suffer from any of the effects they did. Why? Because Vadermon was not paying attetion, causing the hole to be nothing more than a hole that leads directly to Vadermon's hut.
In the anime, no stars were destroyed. the first attack of Vadermon was to hurl a bunch of asteroids on Kabuterimon and then, when he evolved, a relatively large planet (to MegaKabuterimon) and a asteroid field, which MegaKabuterimon destroyed along with Vadermon with his Horn Buster and that was the end of it. We're using both the novel and anime here, so-
Wait. I just noticed something. I can't find the Wakusei nor the Hoshi Kanji anywhere on that game scan, but I can see the modern Tentai! Tentai in japanese means celestial object, it could mean either planet or star. It's the eight kanji in the scan. It makes so much more sense now, it was a mistranslation.
You see, the translator must have assumed those were stars that were being blown to smithereens, when in reality, what was being destroyed by Vadermon were his fake planets. We all know stars can't be "blown to smithereens", but planets can. "Then why he could identify that Izzy was sitting on top of a earth-like planet before?" It's rather simple: first of all, Izzy couldn't be sitting on top of a star, second and most important of all is the description that the celestial object receives.
To confirm that I need the original japanese novel so that I can see what Kanji is used when referring to the stars.
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