Diavolo vs the Stardust Crusaders

[The_real_cal_howard]

Diavolo has as much knowledge on the Crusaders as he did on Team Bucciarati, with Iggy being Giorno in this case (the one power he doesn't know about). Everyone is at their peak of part 3, meaning Jotaro has SP:TW. Furthermore, this takes place in Italy, giving Diavolo the home field advantage, and they only know what KC looks like, not Diavolo/Doppio, though they have the mold Abbacchio made.

Diavolo vs Jotaro Kujo, Joseph Joestar, Muhammad Avdol, Noriaki Kakyoi, Jean Pierre Polnareff, and Iggy.

 

[Moritzva]

Well, for one, Diavolo is obviously going to need to focus down Jotaro first, otherwise this is just DIO vs Diavolo where Jotaro time stops once and beats the snot out of Diavolo.

Do the Crusaders have Prior Knowledge of Diavolo's abilities? I believe Team Bucciarati knew as well.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Following.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Theyre aware of the time skip. Let's say Anne got donuted for them to figure it out.

...wow that's dark

Random Speedwagon Foundation employee instead

 

[Gojii-san]

They learned about King Crimson only after Bucciarati got killed.

How exactly does the time stop/erasure interaction go when the former is much shorter than the later?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well, "killed"

 

[Moritzva]

In that case, I can see the team realizing that Jotaro is vital to victory. They could basically create a circle around him, making it nearly impossible for Diavolo to get close to him without getting past all of them.

Then, the moment Diavolo goes in for a strike, Jotaro time stops and kills him.

Overall, while there are many, many ways this can go, I believe Jotaro can sneak a time stop more often than not.

 

[Gojii-san]

IIRC, the main problem with the DIO fight was that Diavolo simply didn't have anything to kill the vampire with. Jotaro's obviously not that durable without plot armor active, but if he knows about time erasure, then he could prepare himself for the attack.

 

[Moritzva]

IIRC, the main problem with the DIO fight was that Diavolo simply didn't have anything to kill the vampire with. Jotaro's obviously not that durable without plot armor active, but if he knows about time erasure, then he could prepare himself for the attack.

There were two elements-

1. DIO, upon one time stop, instantly obliterates Diavolo. This is the same- if one Time Stop gets through, Diavolo loses.

2. DIO is durable enough to survive attacks. This isn't the same here, but instead there are multiple Crusaders alongside him, which can act as distractions or body guards.

 

[Gojii-san]

Iggy is also problematic as he can create a fake Jotaro completely indistinguishable from the real article, down to the voice.

 

[Golfgan]

If Kakyoin plays his cards well, he can force Diavolo to use Time Erasure the same way he forced Dio. So it means Kakyoin has way to actually decide when Diavolo needs to use Time Erasure.

Since Avdol and Joseph have also long range Stand they can probably corner Diavolo like Kakyoin can (or assist him).

During the final battle, Buccialati Team only had Mista as long range attacker and his stand can't corner anyone the way Joseph, Avdol or Kakyoin can.

Avdol has something called Life Detection on his profile (so no hiding possible), Joseph and Kakyoin are smart enough to come up with the "drops of blood" technique to count seconds (or even come up with another way).

 

[Gojii-san]

Polnareff came up with it, so, they can do that or they can have Iggy do it with sand.

 

[BlastX]

Just chime in to say that one of the main reasons DIO won against Diavolo is because he has regen so he could survive a donut, stop time and kill Diavolo...and there was still a lot of arguments in that one.

Though the arguments so far convinced me so best team FRA.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Egyptian Tour Group FRA.

 

[Gojii-san]

Walking like egyptians towards victory FRA.

 

[BlastX]

Shouldn't this be in Fun And Games? Since it's team fight.

 

[PapapoofY]

So i've been thinking about how Star Platinum/The World's time stop would interact with Diavolo's time skip, and I think it would work like this:

Diavolo is looking into the future, and sees that Jotaro is bringing out Star Platinum and saying "Star Platinum: The World!", before suddenly his vision of himself is instantaneously decimated by the aftermath of a flurry of punches with Jotaro standing in front of him, as if he just teleported.

Because time-stop removes the user from time, it should be envisioned as not cutting from the 10 seconds of vision Diavolo gets from Epitaph.

So Diavolo skips time to avoid the prediction, and sure enough it looks like Jotaro just teleports over to where Diavolo would be stnading, if not for the time-skip as Diavolo steps behind Jotaro.

So with the reasoning that Diavolo could predict and avoid the results of time-stops, wouldn't he be able to get a clean hit on Jotaro once they exit the time-skip and Diavolo is behind Jotaro, who is initially confused about why the time-stop didn't work, and the fact he's suddenly forwards?

With Jotaro theoretically out of the way, it'd be tough if all the crusaders huddled together and watched for any time skips. Any blood-blinding wouldn't stop the crusaders from just going all out in the area around them once time's skipped, with Avdol being the most capable of just blasting fire all around him.

Diavolo would probably have to come up wtih some new technique, or else it'd just be a stalemate of the rest of the crusaders waiting to counterattack, with Diavolo not attacking because he knows it'd be suicide to appear in that circle of attacks.

Maybe Diavolo could psych them out by time-skipping, but just not going near them, making them attack all around themselves as Diavolo waits for an eventual opening?

As for Kakyoin's Emerald Splash and 20 meter body-strands, Diavolo could just keep his distance still and time-skip through all his attacks, and if worse comes to worse he could just brute-force slap away the emeralds like everyone with above average power and speed do anyways.

I really don't see a definitive winner here, as after Diavolo kills Jotaro, it's just a stalemate where neither can approach each other, and both sides are more than capable of making ranged attacks irrelevant.

But this is JoJo, so there's probably some sort of 300 IQ move either Diavolo or the Crusaders could pull off that actually makes the fight progress, but hell if I know..

 

[Moritzva]

With prior knowledge, Jotaro wouldn't displace himself out of position to leave himself open to a Time Skip + Punch. He'd wait for the 'dripping blood' or similar technique.

Not to mention, it's possible he uses SP's superior speed, strength, and senses to hit KC right when time skip ends before he gets hit.

 

[Golfgan]

As PixelKirby said we assume Stardust Team knows about Time Erasure, so the 'stalemate' situation you describe in the second part of your comment is not happening after Jotaro's death but at the very beginning of the battle.

Of course if you already believe that Stardust Team minus Jotaro (with prior knowledge) gets a stalemate, surely we can all agree that adding Jotaro on top of all of this is a lose for Diavolo.

 

[BlastX]

Bump

 

[PapapoofY]

Hrm, yeah with Prior knowledge I don't think Diavolo could even touch anyone, as even if he went to kill the slowest one, Joseph or Kakyoin, the other members are close by, and could attack Diavolo faster than he can donut anyone.

Come to think of it, how did Diavolo even defeat Polnareff the first time around? I know Polnareff didn't have prior knowledge, but even when Diavolo was just standing behind Polnareff for what seemed like entire seconds, he still didn't have Silver Chariot dodge King Crimson's chop to his face.

But THEN we have a later example of Silver Chariot being way faster than King Crimson could attack, Polnareff slicing an entire circle around him before King Crimson could even strike, but it seemed like Diavolo was still able to dodge out of his radius before he was completely sliced, so maybe Diavolo could still at least dodge some of the Stardust Crusader's fastest attacks?

Even if Diavolo was fast/tricky enough to kill Joseph or Kakyoin, which I don't think he is with the other Crusaders nearby, he still couldn't kill the super-fast Jotaro or Polnareff, and Avdol always just has fire around him, se he's basically impossible to approach/teleport onto without being burned.

So yeah all in all it's in the Crusader's favor, but no fight can just be a stalemate forever, so one side eventually has to make a tricky maneuver and kill their enemy, and I think Joseph would come up with something with his hax-smart tactics and Hermit Purple's abilities, so Stardust Crusaders take the victory here.

Come to think of it, if the entire Bruno squad had prior knowledge and was all together, I don't think Diavolo could kill any of them like he did when they were either separated or when he was just latching onto one of their souls and was thus undetectable to kill Narancia.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Diavolo could easily kill Pol any time of the day

That time he got hurt was most likely PIS

 

[BlastX]

To be fair, Silver Chariot still had it's armor while fighting King Crimson

 

[BlastX]

Ok, but seriously I think we are downplaying Diavolo a wee bit much

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I haven't read part 5 (heck, I haven't even started part 3) but in the anime Diavolo was spamming the time erasure like crazy when inside Mista's body.

He could do the same here and take all of them rather quickly, kill one run away, wait for another chance or precog them and go in again.

 

[Golfgan]

He didn't use time erasure that much actually. His best and only "spam" feat is when he dodges Mista's bullets. Even then it is not clear whether he uses it twice, thrice or even only once because of the fact that he also uses Epitaph.

It is simply unknown how many bullets he dodges using Epitaph alone and how many using Time Erasure.

 

[PapapoofY]

I haven't read part 5 (heck, I haven't even started part 3) but in the anime Diavolo was spamming the time erasure like crazy when inside Mista's body.
He could do the same here and take all of them rather quickly, kill one run away, wait for another chance or precog them and go in again.

Alright, I know that I came into this thread arguing that Diavolo has more power than was initially discussed, but even i'm not sure Diavolo could wipe them out so easily.

We have to take into account the speed of the fighters, despite the fact that every single one of Diavolo's attacks from behind after Time Erase haven't been countered in any way before dealing damage, as he struck hard with both Polnareff and Bruno, with Polnareff being one of the fastest characters in the entire series.

There are two theories that I can make with these examples of Diavolo absolutely destroying an opponent with an attack from behind, which should've been counterable.

1. His victim is so stunned by the intimidation of falling victim to his ability that they're too paralyzed to respond quickly the first time King Crimson strikes from behind.

In the same universe where a vampire literally pushes people back with a malicious aura so intense that it can blow like wind, it's not unfeasible to assume that Diavolo's victims are simply too shaken to respond the first time their actions are erased from time before he's talking in their ear about his ability's apparent invincibility just as he guts them. This theory supports the seemingly contradictory case with Polnareff's wildly differing responses to the same scenario.

In his first encounter, he barely moves at all after King Crimson skips time through his sword's first swing, Silver Chariot not even moving away as King Crimson chops into his face. But in his second encounter, long after he's experienced that same terrifying strength that Diavolo exudes, he instantaneously attacks right when he knows that time has been skipped.

This also explains why Bruno didn't do anything after his actions were initially skipped. Part confusion and part intimidation of seemingly hitting his future self and then Diavolo himself explaining his "invincible" power right into Bruno's ear made him just stand there as King Crimson's fist steadily buried itself up into Bruno's back and then out his stomach, and then after that initial attack Bruno had overcome that intimidation and retaliated.

If Diavolo were fighting anyone else but the Stardust Crusaders with prior knowledge, i'd argue that we must consider an initial intimidation factor that renders his victims stunned as he makes his first confusing attack, like a less intense version of DIO's intimidation that'd make most people either paralyzed or run away, but these are the Stardust Crusaders with prior knowledge, which means the group could steel themselves, and prepare to react, instead of being completely confused and shaken by King Crimson, and I don't think Jotaro could be intimidated by anyone. Though, there is a less interesting, but probably more likely theory as to how Diavolo one-hits seemingly fast fighters...

2. Like with DIO's time stop, the manga had things go much more quickly while the anime slowed things down for dramatic effect and reasonable pacing.

In the fight between DIO and Jotaro, DIO claimed to be stopping time for 5 to 10 seconds, but in the anime, it was much more time, because the anime had to fit in all the talking that DIO did, as well as Jotaro's thoughts while in frozen time. With this example, it's likely that the same happened with Diavolo's talking right after he erases time. In reality his killing blows are much, much faster than shown in the anime, much faster than even Silver Chariot could react.

This doesn't exactly conflict with what we're shown, since the only time King Crimson's attacks were overlapped and beaten out in speed was when Gold Experience Requiem Muda barraged him after he'd started to swing towards him, but the amp Gold Experience Requiem got to all stats isn't known exactly, and it could be reasoned that Giorno's Requiem boost made him the fastest stand known up to that point. And Sticky Fingers only elbowed King Crimson because he'd immobilized him with the zipper around his arm stuck through Bruno's body.

While the thought that King Crimson is the fastest stand besides Gold Experience Requiem doesn't sit right with me, as well as me just personally wanting to believe my first theory more, I can't exactly disprove it without a solid example of another stand moving faster than King Crimson could. Polnareff's second attack comes to mind, but i'm not sure if this counts, since if Diavolo really was trying to kill Polnareff right there, and if Silver Chariot was really faster than King Crimson, then Diavolo would've died right then after teleporting into Silver Chariot's all out circle slice. It's likely that Diavolo was just testing how Polnareff would react after his time skip, as this is the very first opponent that already knows about King Crimson, and Diavolo wouldn't just repeat the very same attack Polnareff had experienced before without seeing how Polnareff reacts to his time skip.

If this second theory is the case, then I don't think the Crusaders will win in the long run, not without losing a few members.

So all in all, if the first theory is the case, the Stardust Crusaders win since they're prepared to counter attack and won't be shaken, but if the second theory is the case, then the Stardust Crusaders at least lose some slower members before possibly winning.

 

[JohnConquest1]

Egyptian World Tour Group FRA

Can this even be added as a team battle?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No

 

[AsianAntics]

Crusaders FRA.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

Kakyoin kills Diavolo with the Emerald Splash. No one and i mean, NO ONE can deflect the Emerald Splash.

Except from You

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Kakyoin didn't expect the timestop

Kakyoin with prior knowledge solos Jojo with Za Emerald Splash