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Devil May Cry: Question about Dante's speed

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GrimmReaper94

GrimmReaper94

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Why is it that Dante's speed has been listed as subrelativistic when during the fight against Mundus, he was just shooting past entire galaxies in seconds??

and also, why both Dante and Mundus are listed as Tier 3A yet Dante is also mentioned to be far more powerful that Mundus in DMC1 itself??So what I was thinking is that would it be too far fetched of an idea to think that by DMC4, Dante would have grown far stronger, possibly to low/mid tier multiversal levels??
 
That's not how tiering works....

You can destroy as many universes as you want, but in absence of space-time destruction you will remain 3-A.

Also do you have a link to him crossing galaxies?
 
We need to calc the speed considering we don't know how fast they travelled. It's just there until further notice and those were stars i think not galaxies
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
That's not how tiering works....
You can destroy as many universes as you want, but in absence of space-time destruction you will remain 3-A.

Also do you have a link to him crossing galaxies?
Click to expand...
How do one destroys an entire universe without destroying its space-time continiuum??It just doesn't make any sense!!


And as for he link, here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUCBTVuWAmE&t=418s


Watch the clip from 3:34 on wards and by 3:44, there were nothing in the background, which would imply that both Dante and Mundus had crossed the boundaries of observable universe...................within a span of 10 seconds!!Don't you think that's enough to put their speed at FTL+ level, at the very leaset, considering Bayonetta was granted the same for much less??

 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
We need to calc the speed considering we don't know how fast they travelled. It's just there until further notice and those were stars i think not galaxies
Click to expand...
Why not??Just count the time taken in the clip I posted.

And as for the celestial bodies are concerned, far away galaxies would appear as stars to naked eye.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Actually this discussion belongs in the content revision board, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Sorry man, I'm a newb around here and not really aware of all the technicalities.
 
@Grimm You should likely understand how we do things here. There is a reason Goku and Beerus are only 3-A. They pnly threatened to destroy all the matter of the universe, not the space time. That's why there is a tier 3-A and Low 2-C...

And we cannot accept feats until someone calcs it and the calc group considers it legit.
 
>just count the time

Not as easy as that sounds…and no simply being stronger doesn't warrant a tier upgrade. To get them to even low 2-C Mundus needs to create a separate space-time continuum.

Bayonetta got her FTL+ because it was calced and that's not the edge of the observable universe…calcing helps ya know
 
Well at minimum they're flying past the stars. Since the nearest star to earth is four light years away we could start there. And the average star in the sky is a few hundred light years away. And with that space now confirmed to be a universe it can't be dismissed as fake anymore.

Well they flew that distance in a few seconds, that seems a starting point.
 
That's not how space travel works. If my debunked Mario Kart upgrade taught me anything, it's that stars moving=/=travelling past stars. Granted, I only looked at the gif.
 
The real cal howard said:
That's not how space travel works. If my debunked Mario Kart upgrade taught me anything, it's that stars moving=/=travelling past stars. Granted, I only looked at the gif.
Click to expand...
Fine, watch this full video clip then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUCBTVuWAmE&t=418s

Start at around 3:34 when Dante begins his ascend (more like a jump), the background is full of stars and other celestial bodies and by around 3:41, there was nothing there!!The background became completely bereft of anything at all, it was just a continuous nothingness.So what does it tell you then sire??
 
No. Not how it works. For one, so far I'm the only person who has responded to the legitimacy of the feat, and I'm the one who's the admin. And if I think it's vague with my experience and expertise a this, what do you think others will think?
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Well at minimum they're flying past the stars. Since the nearest star to earth is four light years away we could start there. And the average star in the sky is a few hundred light years away. And with that space now confirmed to be a universe it can't be dismissed as fake anymore.
Well they flew that distance in a few seconds, that seems a starting point.
Click to expand...
Thank you m8!!Thank you a quadrilion tns for your helping hand!!I'm surprised the cals or whatever they are called, didn't look into this earlier.
 
They went to an area that was a thundercloud. It's cloudy and there's lightning. The're clearly not travelling galactic distances. Not to mention the cutscene jump and you have no timeframe for that too.
 
We can assume it took 3 hours to fly there. Trish was still lying outside having not woken up yet and there wasn't any great implied time lapse. It's notable that Mundus was logically planning to fly away so he could blast Dante from a distance, but Dante was able to keep up with him thus ruining that plan, and it seems unlikely it would take any longer to figure out that Dante could keep up with him than the actual fight ends up taking.

The only thing to consider is the cloudiness. You're saying the clouds are obscuring the stars, right? That actually isn't the case. If you watch it slowly or pause it at the right time you can see a full screen of total blackness in the background before Dante enters the cloudy area. The GIF show it too, you just have to watch closely. By this I mean right before he ascends into the haze we see empty space with no stars filling the entire screen.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
@Grimm You should likely understand how we do things here. There is a reason Goku and Beerus are only 3-A. They pnly threatened to destroy all the matter of the universe, not the space time. That's why there is a tier 3-A and Low 2-C...
And we cannot accept feats until someone calcs it and the calc group considers it legit.
Click to expand...
Ok, I can certainly understand that but Beerus shouldn't be compared to Mundus in my humble opinion, at least not anymore now that we've got Hideki's clarifications.Because unlike the former, the later actually managed to wish an entire universe, with its separate continnum, into existance, with just a wave of his hands!!

And as to why I think he created a continuum, now hear me out please.Mundus just didn't create the mass inside our own universe but created a fully functional and self contained universe the size of our own, which means, logically it can never exist inside our own universe without expanding it to double of its actual dimention.So needless to say that his universe would definitely have to be a 4-d one, complete with its temporal dimention.So by that logic alone, Mundus has the ability to create, influence, effect, alter, manipulate and also destory a (likely to be more than one but let's go with just one for the time being) continuum, because a 3d universe can not exist without the 4th one, space and time -they are mutually inclusive and therefore can not exist in a vacuum without the other.

And even if we are to take your assumption as being correct, that Mundus' universe did exist within our own, even then it would not share the same time continuum or even be affected by it in any way.Why - because the continuum inside a self contained closed system wouldn't be effected/influenced by the outer system, in this case our universe.

This can be explained with a rather simple example.Suppose you create a computer simulation, replicating our own universe and you start with the big bang and let the simulation run on itself uninterruptedly, there by creating a whole universe inside of a closed and self contained system, that being the virtual space in this instance.Now obviously, the time in this universe will start right from the moment of the simulated big bang, as being the 3d space.Now, do you think its continuum will be effected/influenced by the continuum of the real world or will it be linked in any way??The answer is - NO, IT WOULD NOT!!Because it's self contained.The same rule should and would apply to your version of Mundus' universe as well!!Which again would mean, that he can, in fact create a 4-d universe and effect/destroy a space-time continuum.

And now coming to the final point, there are some hints given in the game that Mundus was effecting the space-time continuum inside our realm, in the forms of notes left on Malet island, where it was documented that plants and flowers were growing at different paces at different parts of the island, suggesting that Mundus's mere presence was effing up the flow of time or the parts where gravity had been seemingly turned upside down as things were left suspending from the roofs and so on and so forth.Heck, Mundus likely wasn't even present in our realm at that time when all these happened.I wonder why no one cared to take note of these hints which were staring at us like the sun.


Ps - I know we can not take feats cannot be accepted until and unless someone calcs them and that's precisely why I opened this thread.
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
>just count the time
Not as easy as that sounds…and no simply being stronger doesn't warrant a tier upgrade.
Click to expand...
Why not??At 3:34, th background space was full of stars and other luminous celestial bodies but at 3:41 or so, everything vanished!!How do you think that might happen unless they flew to a completely empty part of our universe, that being outside the realms of observable universe??What other way this 'phenomena' can be explained as per you??I'm all ears, sir.
 
We don't know if he created a continuum or not and simply made a universe without adding time. It depends on the scale and while one can argue he did this with his universe we have no true indication that it really is the case. I'm not saying he doesn't have one is just we need to justify he made a fully-fledge universe and not just one that functions on his own whims like without a different continuum out of speculation
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
To get them to even low 2-C Mundus needs to create a separate space-time continuum.

Bayonetta got her FTL+ because it was calced and that's not the edge of the observable universe…calcing helps ya know
Click to expand...
1. And that's precisely what he did in DMC1, at the very beginning of his grand fight against Dante.I'll give you my reasoning why I think he did -

And as to why I think he created a continuum, now hear me out please.Mundus just didn't create the mass inside our own universe but created a fully functional and self contained universe the size of our own, which means, logically it can never exist inside our own universe without expanding it to double of its actual dimention.So needless to say that his universe would definitely have to be a 4-d one, complete with its temporal dimention.So by that logic alone, Mundus has the ability to create, influence, effect, alter, manipulate and also destory a (likely to be more than one but let's go with just one for the time being) continuum, because a 3d universe can not exist without the 4th one, space and time -they are mutually inclusive and therefore can not exist in a vacuum without the other.

And even if we are to take your assumption as being correct, that Mundus' universe did exist within our own, even then it would not share the same time continuum or even be affected by it in any way.Why - because the continuum inside a self contained closed system wouldn't be effected/influenced by the outer system, in this case our universe.

This can be explained with a rather simple example.Suppose you create a computer simulation, replicating our own universe and you start with the big bang and let the simulation run on itself uninterruptedly, there by creating a whole universe inside of a closed and self contained system, that being the virtual space in this instance.Now obviously, the time in this universe will start right from the moment of the simulated big bang, as being the 3d space.Now, do you think its continuum will be effected/influenced by the continuum of the real world or will it be linked in any way??The answer is - NO, IT WOULD NOT!!Because it's self contained.The same rule should and would apply to your version of Mundus' universe as well!!Which again would mean, that he can, in fact create a 4-d universe and effect/destroy a space-time continuum.

And now coming to the final point, there are some hints given in the game that Mundus was effecting the space-time continuum inside our realm, in the forms of notes left on Malet island, where it was documented that plants and flowers were growing at different paces at different parts of the island, suggesting that Mundus's mere presence was effing up the flow of time or the parts where gravity had been seemingly turned upside down as things were left suspending from the roofs and so on and so forth.Heck, Mundus likely wasn't even present in our realm at that time when all these happened.I wonder why no one cared to take note of these hints which were staring at us like the sun.


2. Alright, now I'm trying Dante's speed stats to be rechecked, that's all.
 
i read that and we cannot speculate whether he REALLY made a new space-time or not. It's possible but unconfirmed whether it's a true replica and let me be clear i'm not saying it's impossible for Mundus making a Low 2-C universe just that we need something far more solid then speculation

Alright while I think it's MFTL+ we just want to make sure we know the degree of how fast is it hence why we need a calc so in matches ppl don't assume every MFTL+ character has the same speed
 
Well I can't say much of the observable universe but we have distance between real life stars as a scale. And we can use minimum and maximum timeframes. That will give us at least thousands of times light speed.
 
The real cal howard said:
They went to an area that was a thundercloud. It's cloudy and there's lightning. The're clearly not travelling galactic distances. Not to mention the cutscene jump and you have no timeframe for that too.
Click to expand...
The thunder could was only above their heads!!The background behind Mundus was still visible and it was all dark, with no luminous bodies being present there!!Check it out once more, this time with a bit of extra care please!!


Oh and yeah, Random-Helper323 is right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmBOOL-5I9E&app=desktop ,just pause the clip at 3:18 and see for yourself.The stars disappeared even before the space got engulfed by those thunder clouds of yours.

And in any case, it was just the overhead section where the clouds were, the space behind Mundus remained visible all along and the background was completely dark.Obviously your interpretation isn't correct.
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
We don't know if he created a continuum or not and simply made a universe without adding time. It depends on the scale and while one can argue he did this with his universe we have no true indication that it really is the case. I'm not saying he doesn't have one is just we need to justify he made a fully-fledge universe and not just one that functions on his own whims like without a different continuum out of speculatio
Click to expand...
Well, for one, a functioning universe can not logically exist in vaccum without its 4th or temporal dimension!Isn't that a clarification enough??
 
That's true there were massive gaps in the clouds as well as a shot where empty space fills the screen before Dante enters the haze.
 
I watched it again, this time at half speed. I see what you guys are talking about, but it seems fully like semantics to me. Besides, thunderclouds can't exist in outer space.
 
We can't actually be certain that:

A) they were thunderclouds; there's a haze of some sort, not necessarily thunderclouds.

B) Mundus didn't create them to camouflage his white stone body or generally make it harder for Dante.

The only reason they really seem to be thunderclouds is because there's lightning, but Mundus is creating that lightning.
 
The real cal howard said:
I watched it again, this time at half speed. I see what you guys are talking about, but it seems fully like semantics to me. Besides, thunderclouds can't exist in outer space.
Click to expand...


Well, you are the one who came up with the term 'thunderclouds' here for the first time, so.............

And besides, there are clouds in space, clouds of dust and gasses which are called Nebulae by the way but you can still see the stars and other luminous bodies through them since they are usually spread very thinly.

And in any case, whether it was thunderclouds or some sort of myst or haze or whatever, it doesn't matter a bit!!What matters is that the background was completely devoid of any stards at that point which can mean only one thing, that there was nothing there.
 
Well @Grimm this is fiction so it doesn't follow the physics of the real world sometimes hence why if there is no space-time in the universe then well it's not out of the ordinary. Again not saying it's impossible to have it just saying it's too much speculation unless the creator or future games clarify on that
 
Well, if Dante and Mundus truly did fly past galaxies, then that is a MFTL+ feat, but the thunderclouds would also make the feat more unreliable.

I also agree with the others, in that we do need solid proof of creating a space-time continuum from scratch to warrant a Low 2-C rating.
 
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