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Devil May Cry: Potential Upgrades (God-Tiers)

Ogbunabali said:
He didn't die he just went back into the Demon World, and it was literally stated that it was Vergil, even in the author segment in the end.
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He was never stated to be Vergil, the author segment never stated it, it was just implied at the time and even then still left purposefully unclear but now thanks to BTN we know Mundus created the angelos to be mimics of the Sparda family.
 
Dienomite22 said:
He was never stated to be Vergil, the author segment never stated it, it was just implied at the time and even then still left purposefully unclear but now thanks to BTN we know Mundus created the angelos to be mimics of the Sparda family.
Click to expand...
Yes it was.

"Gilver's name was engraved in the hilt. Dante found himself ripping off his amulet. He stared alternately between the sword and the amulet, a sickening realization settling across his mind. The amulet had two names inscribed on it. One was Dante. The other was Vergil. The name of his twin brother, who was lost the day his mother had died. The same face. The same hair color. The same amulet."

"This book reveals an unknown side of Dante ― a side that hasn't been explored. It clarifies things that were said and done in the game that weren't immediately transparent."
 
He was never stated to be Vergil, the author segment never stated it, it was just implied at the time and even then still left purposefully unclear but now thanks to BTN we know Mundus created the angelos to be mimics of the Sparda family.

"Gilver had been Dante's brother."

Literally stated in the epilogue.
 
Ogbunabali said:
That's not the only thing, Dante didn't know who Vergil was (but we clearly know that he does). Dante also got Ebony and Ivory in Vol 1, but we know because of DMC3 that he didn't get them there.
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The first part isn't inconsistant, since BTN said the angelos are basically a mix of the Sparda's combat behavior then obviously someone how behaves some what like Vergil but also like Dante but also sadistic that would naturally make Dante not believe he is Vergil until the toilet paper falls off his head.The second one isn't either since the angelos were sent before the events of DMC3 meaning volume 1 takes place before 3
 
BTN retconned this tho, many things in this novel still completely inconsistent with the franchise, like Dante using Force Edge

We should go back to the CRT lol
 
Even if the feat comes from Mundus, it is still an outlier, since it was a full decade before Mundus made a full recovery and the next best feat from Mundus while his powers are sealed is his feat of maintaining the Mirror World, an island-sized dimension.
 
Kepekley23 said:
...So? That doesn't change the fact that the page spells out that "Gilver had been Dante's brother."
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I always to those type of statements as coming from Dante's pov ever since BTN and DMC5's information came into
Shrug life
view
 
Kepekley23 said:
Even if the feat comes from Mundus, it is still an outlier, since it was a full decade before Mundus made a full recovery and the next best feat from Mundus while his powers are sealed is his feat of maintaining the Mirror World, an island-sized dimension.
Click to expand...
Before the Nightmare even says that Mundus was weakened in that time, he waits the conclusion of Dante's fight against Vergil in 3 just to fight one of the Brothers in a weakened state, since in their peak, they could defeat him...and they are "8-B, likely Far Higher" in 3
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
Before the Nightmare even says that Mundus was weakened in that time, he waits the conclusion of Dante's fight against Vergil in 3 just to fight one of the Brothers in a weakened state, since in their peak, they could defeat him...and they are "8-B, likely Far Higher" in 3
Click to expand...
This ain't going where I think it's going
 
Why would it be an outlier? The feat was being performed by a magical nexus of dark energy located within the Demon World itself, so it wouldn't contradict anything nor mess up the scaling, nor would it scale to Gilver himself, Dante or Weakened Mundus. If anything it could go under the "feats performed by the Demon World's raw energy that scale to Argosax and Void Mundus" section.
 
Well, LightinAnt, the main guy to disagree with the OP, has yet to respond in a little while. Is it worth waiting for him to see if he has any more rebuttals?
 
Sounds good to me. Mind if I just make a very quick suggestion at the end here? I'll write it up in my next reply.
 
So, currently this upgrade would bring all the God-Tiers to "Possibly Low 2-C". I think we can all agree on that at this point. However, I think the "Possibly" tag deserves a bit more discussion.

First, let me just quickly elaborate that I'm not saying they should be definitively Low 2-C. There are still some small assumptions being made here and there that would make a definitive rating unreasonable.

However, I do still have a bit of a problem here. Going off of the page on Attack Potency, the "Possibly" tag defines when a character could be that tier, based off of evidence with a mostly inconclusive result (that is, it is considered reliable but still debatable). The problem I have here is that the Low 2-C feat here is hardly a heavily debatable one. Again, due to mild assumptions it can't exactly be considered definitive, but it entirely works as reliable evidence backed up quite nicely with various lore statements.

To better understand what I mean, let's take Bayonetta's character (which, yes, I'm aware her tier is getting revised soon). Currently, at her strongest she is considered "High 4-C, possibly far higher". The "Possibly far higher", going off of her profile, seems to be based on speculation that she could be comparable to Aesir, but without any solid backing. That's what would seemingly be considered evidence for a "Possibly" tag, and I'd argue that the evidence for this Low 2-C rating is far more solid than that.

In conclusion, I personally think that the justification provided here is much better evidence to suggest a "Likely Low 2-C" rating.
 
uuuhhhh, so, are we ever gonna put the numerous feats Paradox listed on dante's, mundus' and Argosax's pages? I know this doesn't really have much to do with the main topi but it's hugely important, right now in the pages the entire verse scales off of one feat, which makes the tier very precarious, if we add all those feats everything will be more solid, including the 2-c feat
 
They don't necessarily have to be added, right? Adding every single one of those feats on all of the God Tier's pages would make it quite dense and cluttered. I think having only one or two mentioned, and replacing them with other feats in the event that any of the current feats are debunked is the best way to handle it.
 
I would at least add the Mundus feats, mundus' page is pretty lackluster at the moment and weirdly enough mentions his superiority to some tier 6\7 feats as proof of his universal status. I'd add his "collpsing the underworld" feat and i'd also create a Pluto page where we can put his universe creation feat to which Mundus and Argosax scale
 
That sounds reasonable to me, though I'm not entirely sure if a Pluto page is necessary. I'd imagine Paradox would want a word in on this.
 
yeah sure. I think Pluto is an important enough piece of the scaling that he warrants his own page, but that's just my opinion
 
Well, I agree that he's pretty important. And we could get a pretty good tiering for him. The main problem I have is that his abilities section would be extremely lacklustre.
 
Wait guys

The ONLY 3-A feats that are accepted are Pluto and Argosax, any other needs a CRT or more input from Kep here

We add those scans to Argosax and scale the other God Tiers to him, Pluto's feat scales to Mundus ? We can add this in his profile
 
Were none of the feats Paradox mentioned officially accepted?
 
Kep simply said that he was 100% sold on those 2, doesn't mean the others aren't valid, but an explicit approval would be useful
 
DarkGrath said:
"likely low 2-c" thingy
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say so. The scans in the OP only specify that the approach of the Demon World is sttoping or slowing time, and that it creates a few paradoxes in spacetime,

Those are not necessarily evidence that space and time throughout the whole universe is being distorted. You could argue this solely because it's two universes being merged into one, but as far as the scans themselves go, it definitely fits the "inconclusive" part of "Possibly".
 
Hmm... that is a decent point, but I still personally think "Likely Low 2-C" is a greater bet. As mentioned by the OP, we do have explicit confirmation that time was being distorted by the coming of the Demon World, and due to it being a universe-merging feat it would certainly appear that it is on a universal scale. We know that it's affecting the "space" of the two universes definitively, and there is very heavy indication that it is affecting the "time" part of it too.

And again, I'd aught to point out the Bayonetta example. From what I've been able to find about that "Possibly far higher" measure on her page, the idea that she's comparable to Aesir while in Omne is almost entirely speculative, with occasional loose threads here and there to back it up. Even if we assume the "Bayo = Aesir" thing to be a weak Possibly argument, it's clear that this Low 2-C revision for the DMC God Tiers is far, far more solid and so a Likely tiering seems more reasonable.

This doesn't exactly matter too much; since the difference between a character being "Likely Low 2-C" And "Possibly Low 2-C" is pretty much negligible and I really don't care about it as much as it may seem. I just think that "Likely Low 2-C" better represents the reliability of the arguments.
 
Time to call some staff then.

Also, I recommend calling Matt for this one. (Personally I would leave him out of this one since he seems to be under a lot of stress/pressure as of late.)
 
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