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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

Random-Helper323 said:
Although there were also multiple statements that he rivalled him.

If not, then that needs to be reconsidered.
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Sid said Abigail had power that rivaled the Demon King yeah, but I don't know if that refers to Mundus or Argosax, because Demon King could also refer to Pluto (who was killed by Mundus).
 
When I think about it, it's less likely that Madhouse was referring to Pluto since he's an obscure character in the lore and much less well-known than Mundus.
 
Pluto is mentioned in some text in game which im not sure if the average players may find it often, along the game guide which just says being a former demon god and such, over just name dropping, Argosax also cant be either since Capcom wanna pretend that game didnt exist either
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Pluto is mentioned in some text in game which im not sure if the average players may find it often, along the game guide which just says being a former demon god and such, over just name dropping, Argosax also cant be either since Capcom wanna pretend that game didnt exist either
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Pluto is mentioned in first DMC and Kamiya even confirmed Pluto isn't Mundus, as people still believe they are the same person
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Values are already linked in the profiles. There's no need for anything like that.
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Was there a CRT for multipliers and values to be accepted?

Also they are missing values on the profile. DMC5 Dante is currently 5 quintillion times FTL and 50 quintillion times FTL in SDT, if my blog is accepted it will be upgrade to 502 quintillion times FTL and 5 sextillion times FTL in Sin Devil Trigger.
 
Actually, there are some scaling issues there. Dante with the Sparda could still fight Mundus, and his Sparda DT was noticeably faster than Mundus, so I'd scale Dante with Sparda to Mundus' speed while placing DT 2 times faster. Anime Dante had just grown to equal his DMC1 self with Sparda, and base DMC2 Dante was shown to be comparable to the anime DT/DMC1 Sparda DT.

There's also no proof DMC4 Dante is stronger than DMC2 Dante at all, let alone by that much. Same with DMC5 before unlocking Devil Sword Dante. I'd remove those two jumps.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Dante with the Sparda could still fight Mundus, and his Sparda DT was noticeably faster than Mundus, so I'd scale Dante with Sparda to Mundus' speed while placing DT 2 times faster.
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If so I just have to fix that in my blog but it won't change much, also where do you see that Dante Sparda DT is noticeably faster than Mundus?

Random-Helper323 said:
Anime Dante had just grown to equal his DMC1 self with Sparda
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Yes, I already fixed that yesterday.

Random-Helper323 said:
and base DMC2 Dante was shown to be comparable to the anime DT/DMC1 Sparda DT.
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The speed value of DMC2 Dante is already the same as Anime Dante DT in my blog

Random-Helper323 said:
There's also no proof DMC4 Dante is stronger than DMC2 Dante at all, let alone by that much.
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Dante gets more powerful over the years as evidenced by the gap between DMC3-1 and between DMC1-Anime. There is no reason to think that Dante suddenly stagnated in power between DMC2-4 and between DMC4-5 where a few years have passed.
 
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Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
If so I just have to fix that in my blog, but where do you see that Dante Sparda DT is noticeably faster than Mundus?
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For starters, they continue their fight in base form, but the obvious part is in their flight scene.unduw starts flying first, Dante flies after him, and Dante gets ahead of Mundus. We explicitly see Mundus fly, then Dante fly, then Dante stop, then Mundus catch up.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
The speed value of DMC2 Dante is already the same as Anime Dante DT in my blog
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Anime base would equal Sparda base, not Sparda DT.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Dante gets more powerful over the years as evidenced by the gap between DMC3-1 and between DMC1-Anime. There is no reason to think that Dante suddenly stagnated in power between DMC2-4 and between DMC4-5 where a few years have passed.
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Probably true, but there's nothing shown of it. Not enough to scale his base to his earlier DT in both 4 and 5.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
For starters, they continue their fight in base form, but the obvious part is in their flight scene.unduw starts flying first, Dante flies after him, and Dante gets ahead of Mundus. We explicitly see Mundus fly, then Dante fly, then Dante stop, then Mundus catch up.
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More specifically Dante outpaces Mundus when he's just in his human form so that would mean Base Dante w/Devil Sword Sparda is already faster than Mundus. But later we see Dante in Sparda DT getting hit by Mundus.

Random-Helper323 said:
Anime base would equal Sparda base, not Sparda DT
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Indeed, my bad

Random-Helper323 said:
Probably true, but there's nothing shown of it. Not enough to scale his base to his earlier DT in both 4 and 5.
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It would have been true if Dante had training between DMC3-1 and between DMC1-Anime to justify his upgrades, but that's not the case. Between each game Dante does no special training other than killing demons.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
Anime Dante scales to Abigail who was confirmed in DMC5's background video. The blog isn't really needed though.
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He... actually wasn't. I looked through the JP version, it talked only about one demon king on par with Mundus, and that was Argosax. We have only Sid's words for the "rivalling Mundus" stuff.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
More specifically Dante outpaces Mundus when he's just in his human form so that would mean Base Dante w/Devil Sword Sparda is already faster than Mundus. But later we see Dante in Sparda DT getting hit by Mundus.
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In DMC1 Dante looks human while standing still in DT. He was already at least partly in DT.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
It would have been true if Dante had training between DMC3-1 and between DMC1-Anime to justify his upgrades, but that's not the case. Between each game Dante does no special training other than killing demons.
Click to expand...
That's why the current statistics just treat him as being about the same as previous entries unless demonstrated otherwise.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
That's why the current statistics just treat him as being about the same as previous entries unless demonstrated otherwise.
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It's up to you to prove that DMC4 Dante isn't more powerful than DMC2 for the reason I just explained. Dante became much more powerful between DMC3-1 and DMC1-Anime by doing nothing special, he was just killing demons. There's no reason to think that Dante suddenly stagnated between DMC2-4 and DMC4-5.

Random-Helper323 said:
In DMC1 Dante looks human while standing still in DT. He was already at least partly in DT.
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Yes, but you said he was significantly faster than Mundus in DT, even though he was actually hit.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
It's up to you to prove that DMC4 Dante isn't more powerful than DMC2 for the reason I just explained. Dante became much more powerful between DMC3-1 and DMC1-Anime by doing nothing special, he was just killing demons. There's no reason to think that Dante suddenly stagnated between DMC2-4 and DMC4-5.
Click to expand...
He should be stronger, but without a solid level of difference, we either have to scale him the same or just regard him as higher to an unknown extent. We can't assume he's equal to his earlier DT without a demonstration of such. It's not an unreasonable theoretical jump given the precedent, but we don't have any proof to index it in the profiles.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Yes, but you said he was significantly faster than Mundus in DT, even though he was actually hit.
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Twice as fast doesn't stop hits from landing if he fires a barrage like he is shown doing. And he most definitely is faster in DT as we literally see him get ahead of Mundus in their flight. I guess the alternative would be to list base Sparda Dante as lower to an unknown extent and Sparda DT as higher to an unknown extent with notes that DT is twice as fast as base.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
He should be stronger, but without a solid level of difference, we either have to scale him the same or just regard him as higher to an unknown extent. We can't assume he's equal to his earlier DT without a demonstration of such. It's not an unreasonable theoretical jump given the precedent, but we don't have any proof to index it in the profiles.
Click to expand...
In DMC5 tho he has, DT Dante lost Urizen, then matches and fatally wounds a stronger Urizen later, DMC4 though i dont remember anything to suggest it
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
In DMC5 tho he has, DT Dante lost Urizen, then matches and fatally wounds a stronger Urizen later, DMC4 though i dont remember anything to suggest it
Click to expand...
I'm only talking about the assumption that base DMC4 Dante is equal to DMC2 DT Dante, and that base DMC5 Dante at the very start is equal to DMC4 DT.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
base DMC2 Dante was shown to be comparable to the anime DT/DMC1 Sparda DT.
Click to expand...
I don't even think base DMC 2 is comparable to Sparda DT, considering how he humiliated Void Mundus who stated by Dante which is stronger than OG, while we have Sparda DT vs Mundus who isn't very much one sided.

Dante got absurdly stronger after anime event. Irrc mission 18 is stated that like "Hunter Shall Surpass Who Came Before Him" meaning Dante possibly surpassed prime Sparda here
 
Thehunter077 said:
I don't even think base DMC 2 is comparable to Sparda DT, considering how he humiliated Void Mundus who stated by Dante which is stronger than OG, while we have Sparda DT vs Mundus who isn't very much one sided.
Click to expand...
That's fair. He scales higher.
Thehunter077 said:
Dante got absurdly stronger after anime event. Irrc mission 18 is stated that like "Hunter Shall Surpass Who Came Before Him" meaning Dante possibly surpassed prime Sparda here
Click to expand...
Yeah. Problem is we don't have a specific multiplier. We're limited to the established multipliers here. It'd be higher, but hard to apply any multiplier to.
 
Something, something, Abigail is demon king tier but doesn't scale to any king directly for obvious reasons, the blog is not only unnecessary but also DT values change from game to game it has no solid number of amp power so it cant't be used as a consistent amp, Dante actually grows in power by doing nothing and eating as seen multiple times through the series so base 2Dante should obviously be faaaar stronger than Sparda DT Dante or 4Dante who should also be faaaaar stronger than DT 2Dante etc something, something
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Something, something, Abigail is demon king tier but doesn't scale to any king directly for obvious reasons, the blog is not only unnecessary but also DT values change from game to game it has no solid number of amp power so it cant't be used as a consistent amp, Dante actually grows in power by doing nothing and eating as seen multiple times through the series so base 2Dante should obviously be faaaar stronger than Sparda DT Dante or 4Dante who should also be faaaaar stronger than DT 2Dante etc something, something
Click to expand...
I agree the blog isn't needed. Still, we work with the multipliers we have.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
He should be stronger, but without a solid level of difference, we either have to scale him the same or just regard him as higher to an unknown extent. We can't assume he's equal to his earlier DT without a demonstration of such. It's not an unreasonable theoretical jump given the precedent, but we don't have any proof to index it in the profiles.
Click to expand...
Just 4 years passed between DMC1-Anime, DMC2 novel/game takes place months after the anime (because Anime and DMC2 both take place roughly 10 years before DMC5 according to Before the Nightmare), so there was also roughly 4 years between DMC2-4, and then 6 years between DMC4-5 according to Before the Nightmare again.

So I don't see the problem with giving Dante these values.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Just 4 years passed between DMC1-Anime, DMC2 novel/game takes place months after the anime (because Anime and DMC2 both take place roughly 10 years before DMC5 according to Before the Nightmare), so there was also roughly 4 years between DMC2-4, and then 6 years between DMC4-5 according to Before the Nightmare again.

So I don't see the problem with giving Dante these values.
Click to expand...
Theoretically it's reasonable, but we don't see it demonstrated. We can't attribute multipliers that we don't see demonstrated.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Abigail is demon king tier but doesn't scale to any king directly for obvious reasons
Click to expand...
What obvious reasons btw?

Tony_di_bugalu said:
the blog is not only unnecessary
Click to expand...
Random-Helper323 said:
I agree the blog isn't needed.
Click to expand...
It's not strictly necessary, yes, but I was directly inspired by this which is pretty cool so I prefer to keep it.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
but also DT values change from game to game it has no solid number of amp power so it cant't be used as a consistent amp
Click to expand...
To my knowledge 2x and 10x are the only multipliers that are given and in other games the DT still increases the speed so it is enough to still use 2x and 10x.

Random-Helper323 said:
Theoretically it's reasonable, but we don't see it demonstrated. We can't attribute multipliers that we don't see demonstrated.
Click to expand...
There's no need to show it. DMC4 Base Dante is necessarily more powerful than DMC2 DT Dante, because that's how it's always worked. Even if we lowball, at the very least DMC4 Base Dante should have the same power as DMC2 DT Dante, so they should still have the same speed values.
 
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Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
There's no need to show it. DMC4 Base Dante is necessarily more powerful than DMC2 DT Dante, because that's how it's always worked. Even if we lowball, at the very least DMC4 Base Dante should have the same power as DMC2 DT Dante, so they should still have the same speed values.
Click to expand...
It could be true, it's just likely to be rejected.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Yeah. Problem is we don't have a specific multiplier. We're limited to the established multipliers here. It'd be higher, but hard to apply any multiplier to.
Click to expand...
Yeah as for multiplier is kinda problem for DMC, as DMC 5 team says even DT multiplier changes which vague to begin with
 
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