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You underestimate peeps gooning power after their female characters
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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Mister6ame6
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- devil may cry
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Afaik VA are kinda called last for any projects in works, Dante VA kinda stated about these too, so its not like they are told the moment Capcom works on any title at firstThere have been so many rumors about a remake of DMC 1, even the voice actor saying so and so, i think something might come out, he's been talking about DMC for a long time
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Depends on the characters. DMC4 Trish and Lady might have sold a game that way. Their old appearance undoubtedly made Capcom money.You underestimate peeps gooning power after their female characters
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Wasnt Lady design in 4 bad? Like wearing glasses even though a unique trait is having heterochromia?
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Wesker also wears glasses even though his unique trait is his red eyes, and his design is praised. Partly obscuring a unique trait isn't automatically bad design.
The character designs was a part of DMC5 that was widely disliked.
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Lowkey wish for Vergil to be retconned in a more meaningful manner. His early life has alot of potential after the incident—like put some subtle romance story with action or so. Just go through his life from beginning to end and it would be soo ******* cool honestly.
Really? Sauce please.
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In fairness to Tony, Dante has driven the franchise since the start, DMC1 was basically Dante only, and he is generally the character the series consistently needs. Vergil clearly adds his own popularity of course, and I do think a Ladies Night DLC could go well. Overall though, Dante is the life of the series no matter how much they try to tell you it's Nero.
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The setting was entirely unique honestly. New franchise, new story, new lore e.t.c. Also the MC itself was pretty new.
The problem with another Dante focused character would be the fact that he is the only character worth playing at this point.
There will be no Vergil, Lady, Trish, Nero and so. That's without mentioning there wouldn't any interesting storyline for Dante outside of the ones we got.
That said, the novel events can be pretty darn awesome which is why I separated it from Dante point when replying to you and Tony. The storyline is actually awesome and Dante himself is versatile asf to demand a new game on it.
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Ain't that about Punishing Gray Raven which just got released?
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And also, a big sequel with all the characters coming together and fighting some new massive enemy from somewhere else is always on the table. Chance to show Dante, Vergil and Nero all together fighting a huge threat. Chance to explore bigger stuff, and also explore and grow the characters more.
Realistically looking at Capcom lately though, they're far more likely to go the safe route with remakes.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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I disagree because there are statements that prove that the Devil Sword Sparda is not the only reason why Dante was able to defeat Mundus and that he also did it via his own newly unlocked power:
- (2:52)
- There is a statement in a guidebook that straight up says that Dante defeated Mundus via the combined power of the Devil Sword Sparda and his own unleashed power, but I don't remember which book I saw it in and I'm still looking for it.
- In another guidebook it is said that Dante was too lazy to unleash the true power inherited from his father, which implies that this is what he finally did at the end of DMC1. But again I don't know where I saw it and I'm still looking
But the most important thing is this:
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What Dante is describing here is literally what happened to him when Mundus killed Trish, what happened to Sparda when Mundus attacked humans 2k years ago, and what happened to Nero at the end of DMC5 when Dante and Vergil were about to kill each other, which made them much more powerful.
Narratively for Dante at the end of DMC1, it's the equivalent of Goku unlocking SSJ1 when Frieza kills Krillin during the Namek arc. It wouldn't make sense if Dante didn't have a significant and definitive power-up (and it would also go against the core theme) and only beat Mundus because he had the right weapon.
This was retconned by Before the Nightmare and Visions of V. In it, Dante says that all those "so-called" powerful demons and demon kings were sheer disappointments. It wouldn't make sense to say that if one of those powerful demons had defeated and literally crucified him in the first round (which is why I think retroactively Dante was never in trouble against Abigail).
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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Why are all these demons superior to the Beastheads?
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This is fine, and it does prove he gained new power in addition to the Sparda, helping to explain his greater strength later. If we were talking about whether he gained a power boost of his own and was indeed growing stronger with or without the sword, this would be good evidence to prove he did and was.
However, the subject at hand is whether he could have beaten Mundus without the Sparda. Him gaining an additional boost doesn't negate the fact that he explicitly couldn't beat a heavily damaged Mundus without the Sparda. He clearly needed it to win, and couldn't win without it, as shown in the game itself when it explicitly stops you from switching weapons and says: "you won't stand a chance against Mundus with this armament" (referring to any weapon other than Sparda). The fact that the Sparda still strengthens him in DMC5 only further supports this, since he was able to use it to break free of Urizen's tentacles when before gaining it he couldn't.
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I don't know much about the novels, but is there anything explaining who created the underworld and the living universe in the novels?
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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Which is weird because Dante obviously reached or even surpassed Sparda during this power-up (this is the whole point narratively). Why would he need the sword to defeat Mundus when he already has the power to do it without it? It looks like some kind of game mechanic or retcon.
It mostly seems like Dante was refueled (of demonic energy) with the Devil Sword Sparda after being tired and weakened by his long fight with Urizen.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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The DMC3 manga says that the Human World was created from the Underworld, which had existed for a long time. But nothing is said about whether someone created these two worlds or not, they seem to have just appeared without explanation.
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I'm imagining that Sparda is fighting against the being who creates the entire multiverse of DMC and because of his disappearance, devil may cry has many things that haven't been explained yet, I've never really seen Sparda's face without being on the devil tringer in dmc 1 and 3, I'm looking forward to a game telling the story of cosmology and Sparda.
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We already have the cosmology. It's just we messed up explaining it in detail.
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Soon we will find a way to be back as before.
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His inability to beat Mundus without the sword is explicitly stated and demonstrated in the game itself.
There isn't enough evidence to retcon it, and an explicit statement that you don't stand a chance without the Sparda isn't a gameplay mechanic.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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It still doesn't make sense.
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What information genuinely clashes with it? It couldn't be much more blatant that he needed the sword to beat Mundus. The game literally spoon-feeds us that fact.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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That Dante surpassed Sparda as soon as he got his power up after he saw Mundus kill Trish.
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What's the proof he surpassed Sparda? The scan I saw from you talked about him following his father's path.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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With the same kind of power up Nero surpassed Dante at the end of DMC5, because Nero had more potential than Dante according to Agnus. Which means that Dante surpassed Sparda at the end of DMC1 because he had more potential than him as Griffon pointed out.
The pattern here is that the more human blood a hybrid has, the more powerful they will be when they have the emotion stuff power up.
Which at least means Dante had reached Sparda's level, which still means it doesn't make sense that he needed the Devil Sword Sparda to defeat Mundus in any case.
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Big assumption here, given Nero struggled against an exhausted Vergil that was struggling to stand after fighting Dante. All evidence actually points to them still being above Nero.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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Where did you see that Nero struggled against Vergil? Also, Nero almost killed Dante with one hit according to Dante himself. And as I said, during DMC4 it was said that Nero had more potential than Dante and at the end of DMC5 he received the most powerful power up that exists in the verse. Current Nero is logically superior to Dante and Vergil just with that.
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The sword fight that takes place in their grapple shows a fight that isn't totally one-sided, and in fact Vergil wins the exchange of blows. Considering Vergil was badly exhausted and we earlier saw a less exhausted Dante get stomped by Vergil...
Dante who can recover from way worse injuries. Clearly just a figure of speech.
A similarly exhausted DMC3 Dante and Vergil were casually stomped by Arkham who admitted either could have stomped him otherwise.
You'll need an actual feat that isn't an almost even fight against an exhausted Vergil. Without that this is all just theory, and it clashes with what we actually see.
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Wasn't Dante surpassing Sparda is a common knowledge???
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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Nero won the exchange as Vergil ended up impaled by his own sword.
Not really considering Dante stayed down throughout the fight between Nero and Vergil.
It's not a theory, it's just the way the lore works with statements that prove it. It doesn't clash with what we see because we don't see Nero losing to Dante and Vergil.
The debate is mainly about when Dante surpassed Sparda, not if, and now it is about whether Nero surpassed Dante and Vergil.
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Dante and Vergil already is, but i doubt Nero is
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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All three of them far surpassed Sparda yeah.
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I mean, Nero did beat the living shit out of his dad later on regardless of his SDT soo... I suppose you can say they are on similar level of power.
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Wasn't Vergil tired after his fight with Dante?
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Depends on how much depleted he actually was. I doubt it was that much for him to be considered "weak" after the fight but I can understand the nuances around. I just personally feel like they both are slightly stronger then Nero still but seemingly pretty relevant either way soo it doesn't matter.
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Vergil won the sword fight, Nero used sheer strength to turn it around. And again, an exhausted Vergil that was struggling to stand up straight right before fighting Nero.
It clashes with Nero working harder to beat Vergil than Vergil worked to beat a less exhausted Dante. And meanwhile no evidence supports it at all, because his big victory was against a Vergil that was just as exhausted as when Arkham stomped him while admitting Vergil would normally be the one stomping Arkham.
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Close, yes. Nero being superior as some people are pushing, no. Vergil was literally struggling to stand seconds before fighting Nero, and earlier a far less worn out Dante got stomped by Vergil.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
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The debate is whether Nero is superior to Vergil and Dante in AP or not, I don't really see how Vergil managing to impale Nero proves that is superior to him when he ultimately lost the exchange.
Yes Vergil was exhausted, but that doesn't mean he would have won against Nero if he wasn't, this exchange alone doesn't prove it imo.
You seem to think that the gap between DMC5 Vergil and DMC5 Nero is the same as between DMC3 Vergil and Arkham, which is obviously false (especially since you think DMC5 Nero is close to Vergil so it would be contradictory with this argument, unless you think Arkham was close to DMC3 Vergil)
Ultimately, the only argument for thinking Vergil and Dante are even more powerful than Nero in DMC5 is literally just one interaction where a tired Vergil holds his own against Nero for a bit and ends up losing, then ultimately losing the fight.
Personally, I think Nero is now superior to Dante and Vergil because it makes more sense lorewise and it's even supported by it. I don't think we'll ever agree on this (at least not until the next game).
In any case there is still the problem of the Devil Sword Sparda in DMC1
