Devil May Cry: Dante Adjustments

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I have two proposals. We remove the 5-B stuff from Dante's page. No clue why thats there and not just the 3-A ranking by itself, and since what Hideki said is a clarification statement more than anything else I also suggest that "possibly" change to "likely".

 

[Cropfist]

Wasn't there another thread about this?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I think there was, but we compared this statement to the Rick one. And after some thought I realized that they're not really compareable with eachother, and as a result I made this thread.

 

[Tivanenk]

Highly disagree. Given the vagueness of the feat, and Hideki's notoriety on Twitter, there is definitely not enough evidence to put this higher than it already is.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"Given the vagueness of the feat"

Ah, because you know. Clarification of the events going on within a cutscene is definately vague.

"Hideki's notoriety on Twitter"

Already discussed about plenty, and it's not a good point at all.

 

[LordAizenSama]

We already had a fullon discussion thread on this before. I also disagree.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

A thread in where we compared Hideki's statement to one where a fan just asked whether or not x could destroy a multiiverse; when you take into account that the former is just clarification on what goes down within a cutscene, is it really logical to bunch up the statements in the same boat?

 

[MaestroMalus]

I'd have to agree with Austrian-Man-Meat on this one. Hideki Kamiya's reputation doesn't automatically rule out any response of his as anything less than legitimate.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mixed on this one half of me I agree with Aizen and Tiv. But AMM's reasoning seems also feasible. I think the current ratings should likely stay the same just to be safe as this does have a lot of contoversy due to the nature of the upgrade.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"as this does have a lot of contoversy due to the nature of the upgrade."

I don't think this is a valid reason at all, you're saying we should treat statements in where the author brings clarity onto a specific scene of his game. Similarly to a statement where the author answers a question on whether or not x can destroy y, just so we can be safe of controversy? Something does not sound right here.

And I don't think anyone can provide me a good reason on why the 5-B stuff should stay on the page, I have no idea why it's still there either to be frank.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"as this does have a lot of contoversy due to the nature of the upgrade."
I don't think this is a valid reason at all, you're saying we should treat statements in where the author brings clarity onto a specific scene of his game. Similarly to a statement where the author answers a question on whether or not x can destroy y, just so we can be safe of controversy? Something does not sound right here.

And I don't think anyone can provide me a good reason on why the 5-B stuff should stay on the page, I have no idea why it's still there either to be frank.

Jesus calm down. I was just detailing the safe option and giving a reason for the safe option. Like I said what you've stated and the others have stated both seem feasible, No need to get so angry over something like this.

 

[Tivanenk]

I think many people are missing the fact that this question was asked after the Dante vs Bayonetta Death Battle, so it's definitely not a neutral opinion.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think many people are missing the fact that this question was asked after the Dante vs Bayonetta Death Battle, so it's definitely not a neutral opinion.

Which question, the original one sent to kamiya?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Tivanenk]

I think many people are missing the fact that this question was asked after the Dante vs Bayonetta Death Battle, so it's definitely not a neutral opinion.

Which question, the original one sent to kamiya?

The one asking about the universe.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Does that effect the situation here?

 

[Tivanenk]

Does that effect the situation here?

It would influence his decision. Many people would be asking him about it, so he would be annoyed. And, once more, his notoriety on Twitter isn't exactly the best either.

 

[Promestein]

I'd rather leave the stats how they are.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Provide reasoning for this please. Actual reasoning, none of the already discussed "Hideki is a troll" stuff or the nonsensical "controversial topic" stuff either. I've gone into detail far too much on both topics and I feel a majority of users here are simply refusing due to incredulity. Which I find quite astonishing.

 

[Promestein]

I'd rather leave the stats how they are just to be safe, not due to controversy and stuff. While the statement is fairly reliable and I wouldn't say it is vague, I still believe we should account for low ends and high ends. I don't particularly mind if people agree to change it, though.

 

[Tivanenk]

Sufficient reasoning already. I don't think it is a wise desicion to take an already vague feat in the first place with a dimension of no known size (as far as the game itself goes), then apply an entire upgrade based on not an interview statement, but rather a short Twitter statement from a man who is known not to be serious half of the time, and then call it irrefutable proof. It certainly is not credible in any sense of the word. Rather, it is a mere possibility at this point.

If Hideki wants to create a game to follow up on the statement, then there would be credibility. But at this point, there isn't.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Sufficient reasoning already.

No it's not, all you've said can be basically summed up with: Hideki Kamiya is a troll (to people who try to flame him/ask him questions he's already answered dozens of times prior) which has already been discussed here, the feat is vague as the game itself goes (makes no sense, especially considering that the creator of the game stated exactly what it was) and lastly asking for incredibly unreasonable standards such as how the answer itself has to come from an interview; that Hideki has to make another follow up game for there to have credibility. I'll repeat myself, do you know how unreasonable that is? Just spare me the downplay and admit you're arguing with nothing but incredulity.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@AMM Dude just calm down.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

@AMM Dude just calm down.

I'm debating civilly, I have not thrown any insults nor have I used any form of curse words. In either case, I hope you don't continue with this and end up derailing the thread.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

" I'll repeat myself, do you know how unreasonable that is? Just spare me the downplay and admit you're arguing with nothing but incredulity"

Sounds very agressive...And angry.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Okay chill and take a deep breath. @Dragon Stop making AMM angry or what seems to be provoking him. I honestly see him just being under a lot of stress from what he has been through.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Okay chill and take a deep breath. @Dragon Stop making AMM angry or what seems to be provoking him. I honestly see him just being under a lot of stress from what he has been through.

I'm not provoking him. I simply asked him to calm down. That's all I want. Nothing more.

 

[Ryukama]

Whether AMM's tone is ideal or not, I agree with what he is saying. As I've said in the previous thread.

Using unrelated cases of Hideki trolling to discredit a situation where he wasn't, conformist arguments worrying about "controversy," and using different interpretations despite the author directly saying those interpretations aren't true do not seem to be valid arguments in my opinion.

And I too believe that wanting this to come from an interview or for him to make a follow up game just to elaborate on a feat already established by him in the previous games and by WoG to be unreasonable expectations.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Dragon At the point and cost it will derail the original purpose of this thread. Asking in this very tense situation could lead to something a bit more worse. However asking him in PM to take a break will be nice.

 

[Tivanenk]

Whether AMM's tone is ideal or not, I agree with what he is saying. As I've said in the previous thread.
Using unrelated cases of Hideki trolling to discredit a situation where he wasn't, conformist agruments worrying about "controversy," and using different interpretations despite the author directly saying those interpretations aren't true do not seem to be valid arguments in my opinion.

And I too believe that wanting this to come from an interview or for him to make a follow up game just to elaborate on a feat already established by him in the previous games and by WoG to be unreasonable expectations.

Proof?

 

[Promestein]

There's nothing suggesting that he was trolling. What kind of trolling would that be, answering a legitimate question with a legitimate answer?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Obviously Twitter will be the explanation, but anyway I suppose I will take the middle ground since I not so sure.

 

[Ryukama]

There's nothing suggesting that he was trolling. What kind of trolling would that be, answering a legitimate question with a legitimate answer?

@Tiv this was pretty much what I was about to say

Anyways while I do not think a straight up 3-A is entirely unreasonable, if most people disagree, then I believe a compromise of changing the "possibly" to a "likely" would be good as well.

That's my final thoughts on this manner.

 

[Tivanenk]

There's nothing suggesting that he was trolling. What kind of trolling would that be, answering a legitimate question with a legitimate answer?

@Tiv this was pretty much what I was about to say
Anyways while I do not think a straight up 3-A is entirely unreasonable, if most people disagree, then I believe a compromise of changing the "possibly" to a "likely" would be good as well.

That's my final thoughts on this manner.

He could have been influenced by the Death Battle at this point, even if he did not intend for the dimension to be universe level at first.

 

[Promestein]

We could talk about the hypotheticals of Kamiya's motivations and thoughts all day but we'll never know so it's completely irrelevant and not supported by anything anyways. He answered the question bluntly and simply. If he was trolling, he'd have done what he always does when he's trolling, which is blatantly be a jerk.

 

[Ryukama]

@Tiv you're accusing others of making assumptions, yet you keep making a bunch of them yourself.

"What if Hideki was trolling by giving a legitamate answer in a way completely different from all his other trollings?" "What if an irrelevant online video that Hideki went on record saying he doesn't care about influenced his decision?" "What if the universe he created wasn't the size of a universe?"

WhiIe can see why some would have doubts about this upgrade, however, as much as I'd hate to typically say this to someone, your massive expectations for this feat to be proven while asserting entirely baseless assumptions yourself, is honestly starting to seem like plain downplay.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

While I still have my doubts about this as a whole i guess solid 3-A could be fine.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I guess solid 3-A could be fine.

I agree with this notion, and to pre emptivley combat any claims that Hideki contradicts himself via saying "Maybe" to other questions. I would like to use this established editing rule as my defence.

"We do not use statements that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera.".

 

[RadicalMrR]

I'm siding with Prom, its good to have a low end.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I'm siding with Prom, its good to have a low end.

Seeing as there is no other way to interpret Mundus' feat as being anything but universal due to Hideki's clarification and our rules allowing for any possible contradictory statements to be made null, I see nothing suitable to use as a lowball. And having lowballs just for the sake of having them is something I won't really reccomend either, it's like calcing the distance of x from y and then slapping a value ten times lower with a sprinkle of "possibly" on it.

However, if any other direct answers do contradict Hideki's clarification I'm fine with introducing low balls and various other things into the mix.