Destroying Nasuverse Earth is only 5-B, Moon Cell is only 4-B.

[Estephano4243]

Destroying Nasuverse Earth Means Destroying Avalon Which Is 6D Therefore It Is A Low 1C Feat
Avalon is a construct outside of time and is only tied to ONE EARTH as Romani noted that all Merlin can do from there is watch over THE WORLD. If Avalon were to be 5D that would entail its existence compares to Imaginary Number and therefore can see multiple parallel worlds which Merlin can’t do, being 6D entails being above Imaginary Number space which would suggest Merlin can see multiple parallel multiverses which he can’t. And destroying Earth doesn’t mean one’s potency is directly messing with Avalon since Avalon’s existence just happens to tie with humanity’s history. Which would mean just by killing all of humanity is enough to trigger Avalon’s destruction. To sum everything up, basically 6D Avalon is contradicted by verse cosmology and destroying Earth doesn't mean one has the potency to destroy Avalon. Destroying Earth comes with the bonus of killing all humans which is the trigger to Avalon's destruction.

The Moon Cell Core Is 8D Therefore Anyone Who Scales To It Is Automatically 1C
The Moon Cell Core is where the Moon Cell stores all of its data in the form of light. Which Sakura confirms is in the Near Side of the Moon given it is the polar opposite of the Far Side’s nature. The Near Side of the Moon is called SERAPH and it is made out of spiritrons which humans would need to turn into spiritrons to be able to enter. And these details are important because spiritrons by nature are incapable of even breaking through the walls of space-time (4D) much less an 8D wall… especially when the character in question is made out of spiritrons and is trying to break a barrier which is also made out of spiritrons. To sum everything up, the 8D barriers thing is contradicted by the sheer fact that both BB and the barrier are made out of spiritrons which by default can't be 8D.

There Are Infinite Possibilities Stored Inside The Moon Cell Therefore Everyone Who Scales To It Is Multiversal+
For starters those simulations are merely recorded in the form of light which already downgrades its significance. Not only that, there is also the fact that the Moon Cell has a system similar to the Quantum TIme Lock as stated by Archimedes who is an admin of the Moon Cell. The Quantum Time Lock functions under the general idea that the universe has finite energy so to compensate it prevents the infinite expansion of number of parallel worlds. Also when characters use “parallel worlds” in the Extraverse series all it means is branching timelines which would mean those “parallel worlds” are literally the same world. Also BB pretty much confirms that the Moon Cell’s power is only Solar System tier. To sum everything up, basically the notion of the Moon Cell's supposedly infinite possibilities that makes it Multiversal+ is contradicted by not only being straight up told it only has finite energy and has finite possibilities, those possibilities are merely in the form of light and not actual separate space-times. Also we are straight up told that the Moon Cell only has Solar System tier energy.

 

[Estephano4243]

bump

 

[Lormac_CC]

What

 

[Estephano4243]

What

Which part is confusing?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Alright, Gilgamesh and co were rated low 1-C for been able to destroy the world. If destroying the world mean just ending humanity and stuff like that without actually destroying the main planet. Then I agree with the 6D downgrade. It is left for supporters to drop scans that destruction of the world means destruction of the planet

 

[Estephano4243]

Alright, Gilgamesh and co where rated low 1-C for been able to destroy the world. If destroying the world mean just ending humanity and stuff like that without actually destroying the main planet. Then I agree with the 6D downgrade. It is left for supporters to drop scans that destruction of the world means destruction of the planet

Destroying Avalon specifically is triggered by ending humanity. It just so happens that destroying the world also kills all humans. Essentially the idea is that the destruction of Avalon has nothing to do with the energy output that destroys Earth.

 

[Estephano4243]

It's like pressing a button to blow up a wall. The destruction of the wall has nothing to do with the energy exerted by the finger that pressed the button.

 

[Regidian]

Dont give much about this. But one thing Avalon have nothing to do with ending humanity. Humanity in LB6 is dead the race entierly erased and Avalon still exist. Avalon existed before humanity and existed after it.

The history part of the scan nevers had any correlation to human History

 

[Lormac_CC]

Destroying Avalon specifically is triggered by ending humanity. It just so happens that destroying the world also kills all humans. Essentially the idea is that the destruction of Avalon has nothing to do with the energy output that destroys Earth.

So it is more like a chain reaction

 

[Estephano4243]

So it is more like a chain reaction

Yea

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

And destroying Earth doesn’t mean one’s potency is directly messing with Avalon since Avalon’s existence just happens to tie with humanity’s history. Which would mean just by killing all of humanity is enough to trigger Avalon’s destruction.

What are you even talking about lmao, the very scan you just posted just contradicts this, Goetia incinerated all of humanity in the past, present and future and Avalon was still standing.

There's also the fact that in LB6 humanity itself has been erased, yet Avalon still stands.

The rest I'll get to later.

 

[Estephano4243]

Dont give much about this. But one thing Avalon have nothing to do with ending humanity. Humanity in LB6 is dead the race entierly erased and Avalon still exist. Avalon existed before humanity and existed after it.

The History part Nevers had any correlation to human History

Lostbelts are trimmed events, anything that happens there doesn't affect anything regarding compiled events.

 

[Estephano4243]

What are you even talking about lmao, the very scan you just posted just contradicts this, Goetia incinerated all of humanity in the past, present and future and Avalon was still standing.

There's also the fact that in LB6 humanity itself has been erased, yet Avalon still stands.

The rest I'll get to later.

I provided a second scan as to why that's the case. Avalon was indeed getting affected but Merlin was rejuvenating it.

 

[Estephano4243]

I provided a second scan as to why that's the case. Avalon was indeed getting affected but Merlin was rejuvenating it.

 

[Regidian]

Lostbelts are trimmed events, anything that happens there doesn't affect anything regarding compiled events.

Well you seem to not follow JP fgo but lb6 is not a lostbelt. It's a lostworld. Litteraly the premise of the story

 

[Regidian]

You scan is about chaldea reactor, can't you read " to Kindle chaldea reactor" ?

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

What the hell, I was making a joke about nasu downgrades hours earlier with a buddy. This is evidence that I can see da future.
I'll wait for knowledgeable members to come in, but this will probably be rejected.

 

[Estephano4243]

You scan is about chaldea reactor, can't you read " to Kindle chaldea reactor" ?

No, Da Vinci was saying that Merlin was rejuvenating Avalon through means similar to Chaldea's reactor.

 

[Estephano4243]

Well you seem to not follow JP fgo but lb6 is not a lostbelt. It's a lostworld. Litteraly the premise of the story

Ok, still trimmed event which still doesn't affect anything in the compiled events.

 

[Paul_Frank]

No, Da Vinci was saying that Merlin was rejuvenating Avalon through means similar to Chaldea's reactor.

Please read this scan again

"You've been using a replenishing method similar to Rayshifting to kindle Chaldea's reactor"

She's literally saying that since Avalon is standing and he's fine, he's been able to power the reactor for them, not that he's powering Avalon, the sentence wouldn't even make sense if that's what she was saying since Rayshifting wouldn't power Chaldea's reactor if they did it

Ok, still trimmed event which still doesn't affect anything in the compiled events.

The rules are all the same however, the difference that makes a lostbelt is they irrevocably diverge from normal history after a certain points. In other words, the difference is in the events, not the rules

 

[Estephano4243]

Even if you guys want to go with the idea that Avalon isn't linked to humanity's history, the fact still stands that Goetia nuked Earth and Avalon for a fact still stands which still suggests destroying Nasuverse Earth is only planetary.

 

[WHYNAUT]

No, Da Vinci was saying that Merlin was rejuvenating Avalon through means similar to Chaldea's reactor.

No, she's obviously stating he was replenishing Chaldea's reactor. This can be concluded from the sentence that follows.

"You've been doing it in secret, and only when we really needed it, without the King of Mages finding out."

Anyway, I'm going to disagree in advance for the reasons that will be given by Crimson and others. Nothing really new is being presented.

 

[Regidian]

No, Da Vinci was saying that Merlin was rejuvenating Avalon through means similar to Chaldea's reactor.

Huh no? How do you even got this conclusion? The texte is litteraly is incinération of humanity destroyed the World but Avalon still here.
And that merlin created the fire of prometheus to Kindle the chaldea reactor.... Do you even have read really this part?

Ok, still trimmed event which still doesn't affect anything in the compiled events.

It's litteraly not, it's the whole premise of the event that lb6 affect the PH World.

 

[Regidian]

Even if you guys want to go with the idea that Avalon isn't linked to humanity's history, the fact still stands that Goetia nuked Earth and Avalon for a fact still stands which still suggests destroying Nasuverse Earth is only planetary.

Goetia nuked only the Earth your scan say Avalon still stand you can't read?

And in what it would mean that nasuverse Earth is planetary... Like even without that. We know that the layer of man is composed of the universe that the human perceive.

 

[Estephano4243]

Please read this scan again

"You've been using a replenishing method similar to Rayshifting to kindle Chaldea's reactor"

She's literally saying that since Avalon is standing and he's fine, he's been able to power the reactor for them, not that he's powering Avalon, the sentence wouldn't even make sense if that's what she was saying since Rayshifting wouldn't power Chaldea's reactor if they did it

I concede on that point, perhaps I was reading it to fast.

The rules are all the same however, the difference that makes a lostbelt is they irrevocably diverge from normal history after a certain points. In other words, the difference is in the events, not the rules

The rules has nothing to do with how trimmed events affect compiled events. Yes fundamentally they are the same world but trimmed events stuff still doesn't affect what happens in compiled events. If Earth is nuked in a trimmed event, it won't affect Avalon that is on the compiled events.

 

[Estephano4243]

Goetia nuked only the Earth your scan say Avalon still stand you can't read?

And in what it would mean that nasuverse Earth is planetary... Like even without that. We know that the layer of man is composed of the universe that the human perceive.

So you're telling me that destroying Earth means destroying the observable universe? In what case has this ever happened?

 

[Estephano4243]

just to make things clear:

I concede on the point regarding Avalon, even then it still means destroying Earth =/= exerting energy that destroys Avalon itself. Goetia nuked Earth yet Avalon is still fine.

 

[Lormac_CC]

I want to ask, is there any scan of a character actually destroying the Planet

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Goetia destroyed the planet's surface, and as we know from Merlin's CE, Avalon is the inner sea of the planet, housing it's soul. With a fully charged AAS, Avalon would have been a goner.

So you're telling me that destroying Earth means destroying the observable universe? In what case has this ever happened?

Earth's surface actually.

Here's Holmes explaining how the human world, which contains our laws of physics, is in the surface of the planet.

Here is Arcueid's astral body, which came to exist due to her recording the planet's surface on herself, being described as an infinite conceptual universe.

And these details are important because spiritrons by nature are incapable of even breaking through the walls of space-time (4D)

This never says anything about Spiritrons being unable to pass through space-time walls. In fact, the very scan you posted says that the Umbra Star's spiritron cells are what allows you to pass through it.

Nevermind how space-time isn't even inhenrently 4-D anyway.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I want to ask, is there any scan of a character actually destroying the Planet

Arjuna doing so in LB4. Many other characters are stated to be capable of destroying the planet as well.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Destroying Nasuverse Earth Means Destroying Avalon Which Is 6D Therefore It Is A Low 1C Feat
Avalon is a construct outside of time and is only tied to ONE EARTH as Romani noted that all Merlin can do from there is watch over THE WORLD.

Roman is straight up wrong here, since Merlin can see the past present and future and everything as well, he just didn't know. Merlin had explicitly watched Chaldea from start to end

If Avalon were to be 5D that would entail its existence compares to Imaginary Number and therefore can see multiple parallel worlds which Merlin can’t do, being 6D entails being above Imaginary Number space which would suggest Merlin can see multiple parallel multiverses which he can’t.

N-no? It being 6d doesn't automatically mean he gets to see multiple parallel universes, considering, well, that's down to his Clairvoyance, not the abilities of Avalon, so this argument makes no sense. Avalon is a prison for him, where he was locked up, his clairvoyance is his own ability unrelated to it.

And destroying Earth doesn’t mean one’s potency is directly messing with Avalon since Avalon’s existence just happens to tie with humanity’s history. Which would mean just by killing all of humanity is enough to trigger Avalon’s destruction. To sum everything up, basically 6D Avalon is contradicted by verse cosmology and destroying Earth doesn't mean one has the potency to destroy Avalon. Destroying Earth comes with the bonus of killing all humans which is the trigger to Avalon's destruction.

We already talked about how this intepreation of Avalon is backed by quite literally nothing. Destroying the entire Earth would entail destroying Avalon as that's part of it, Goetia however, did not do that, he has the ability to punch a hole through the Earth which would destroy it, however he never did fire that focused version into the Earth, Mash blocked it and died

The Moon Cell Core Is 8D Therefore Anyone Who Scales To It Is Automatically 1C
The Moon Cell Core is where the Moon Cell stores all of its data in the form of light. Which Sakura confirms is in the Near Side of the Moon given it is the polar opposite of the Far Side’s nature. The Near Side of the Moon is called SERAPH and it is made out of spiritrons which humans would need to turn into spiritrons to be able to enter. And these details are important because spiritrons by nature are incapable of even breaking through the walls of space-time (4D)

Normal people are unable to normally travel through parallel worlds because of the rules preventing this, yes, there's a special authority to allow this within the mooncell

much less an 8D wall… especially when the character in question is made out of spiritrons and is trying to break a barrier which is also made out of spiritrons.

This argument only works if you assume they can't do anything 4d because of power, even assuming this, it's irrelevant because the wall isn't what was 8d, the mooncell is. This is because the wall cuts through 8 dimensions, meaning the space it occupies is 8 dimensional, i.e the mooncell, so those who scale are 8d

To sum everything up, the 8D barriers thing is contradicted by the sheer fact that both BB and the barrier are made out of spiritrons which by default can't be 8D.

As I said above, the thing you posted as evidence they can't even reach 4d is outright incorrect. The materials specified that the reason it wasn't possible wasn't exactly a lack of strength, but rather a lack of privilege. It is specified to be a system administrator privilege, and the materials say "As in the events of the present work, existences such as Archimedes and Dark Eliza were submitted to record by Moon Cell, Sliding will be prospectively disallowed to them as well."

Meaning it's not their level of power that was the issue, or allowing them to do it, it's the mooncell not allowing it normally, and them being able to slip past that when corrupted, for a limited time, because they weren't recorded by it, and thus not subject to the rules it has. But when they are recorded, they'd be stopped.

Now, even if you ignore this, and say "Well the mooncell being 8d doesn't count because reasons" it being able to produce such a thing means it observed it in the rest of the World (universe or multiverse not planet), because that's what the mooncell can reproduce, observed things. So the possibly 8d would stay even if you disregard all evidence about the mooncell

There Are Infinite Possibilities Stored Inside The Moon Cell Therefore Everyone Who Scales To It Is Multiversal+
For starters those simulations are merely recorded in the form of light which already downgrades its significance. Not only that, there is also the fact that the Moon Cell has a system similar to the Quantum TIme Lock as stated by Archimedes who is an admin of the Moon Cell. The Quantum Time Lock functions under the general idea that the universe has finite energy so to compensate it prevents the infinite expansion of number of parallel worlds.

Before even getting into the rest of this, to address a few things here.

1. They're stored as light so they're less impressive.

Incorrect, it says the results of the simulations are stored as light there, however the actual universes do still exist, those are merely the records, something talked about in the Extra games. This is shown by the very fact that sliding is possible for Archimedes and co, and that parallel worlds for the events of Seraph exist (Foxtail, CCC, etc). This is in addition to things like Last Encore, where it was going to specifically shut down and prune all parallel worlds, which means they do exist at any given time. The light is the so called records, as said there, the results.

2. "There can't be infinite because muh energy".

I've said this numerous times, but this is both not actually what the Japanese text says, and not what the English text even says.

What the text says is "The energy to account for the proliferation of unnecessary worlds, exists nowhere within this Dimension"

This point about proliferation is repeated a few times there, the issue is not the number, but the process of creating more and more starting from said number, when those new worlds don't have any potential to branch anymore. Which means if we already have infinite as an established fact (FGO Goetia line, Zelretch in FSN, etc), infinite is still fine, as the number was never the issue, only the process continuing on dead end worlds, the ones that get pruned because they can't produce more worlds due to whatever factors (too advanced, humanity died, Arjuna Alter does a cycle every week, etc)

Another piece to support the fact its the process it doesn't want to expend energy on uselessly is that the Compiled Events section of the materials mentions that the entire reason they're pruned is because the outcome is certain, and only wants to reach an outcome that no one knows yet, so taking that into account, this even further shows the number isn't a problem, but that it's a waste of time and energy to create worlds where you already know what will happen

Also when characters use “parallel worlds” in the Extraverse series all it means is branching timelines which would mean those “parallel worlds” are literally the same world.

This doesn't suggest they're the same world though? Merely that they branch off from the same events. We're also shown they outright aren't the same, with again, the entire sliding thing, and Last Encore. The entire point of sliding was to slide to another world that wasn't as far ahead so as to avoid the mooncell's pruning of the worlds Archimedes failed in, because he could go to a point before the QTL would be put in place, something that's not possible if they're in the same world/timeline

Also BB pretty much confirms that the Moon Cell’s power is only Solar System tier.

Its computational power is what's being talked about here, which is, if you didn't know, is impossible to quantify for AP, specifically because planets are all massive in Fate (as stated in lb 5.2, Earth's top texture alone includes the known universe as a part of it because that's what humans understand, and that's just one of the planets, oh and even moons are alive and likely massive, as shown by there being a Type Moon, and a Type for the Oort cloud)

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is so very wrong with scans heavily misinterpreted and text that only makes sense if we also misinterpret these scans in that way. It also ignores Holmes, a guy who is ridiculously reliable, literally telling us how the world works with Avalon.

To make a downgrade like this for something like Nasuverse you have to have highly in-depth knowledge of literally everything from F/SN to FGO to Tsukiheme and everything in-between. I'm sorry but you were ill prepared for making this.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

My view aligns basically perfectly with CrimsonStarFallen and Paul Frank. The OP is very little beyond extremely weird interpretations of statements that make no sense or being straight up wrong about the contents of a scan.

One thing that really stuck out to me is the Moon Cell light argument. Even disregarding everything else, which should not be done might I add, that makes no sense because people can die inside of the simulations and be actually dead. That is simply not possible if those simulations were as you say they are.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Ngl.. I'm comfused..

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ngl.. I'm comfused..

I think we all were when we read that disaster of an OP with prior knowledge on Nasuverse

 

[Estephano4243]

Goetia destroyed the planet's surface, and as we know from Merlin's CE, Avalon is the inner sea of the planet, housing it's soul. With a fully charged AAS, Avalon would have been a goner.

The incineration of humanity destroyed the world, no? Should that not entail that the world is straight up nuked? Therefore destroying the world =/= destroying Avalon.

Here is Arcueid's astral body, which came to exist due to her recording the planet's surface on herself, being described as an infinite conceptual universe.

I reckon that is absolutely meaningless. That quite frankly isn't the only time Nasu wrote something to be "infinite whilst small". The Chaos Tide is described to be an infinite sized 4D construct but got decimated by flames from the sun.

This never says anything about Spiritrons being unable to pass through space-time walls. In fact, the very scan you posted says that the Umbra Star's spiritron cells are what allows you to pass through it.

Spiritron bodies are called "Cyber Frames" which are described to be incapable going through space-time walls without getting decimated. So yes it does say Spiritrons are unable to pass through space-time walls.

Roman is straight up wrong here, since Merlin can see the past present and future and everything as well, he just didn't know. Merlin had explicitly watched Chaldea from start to end

N-no? It being 6d doesn't automatically mean he gets to see multiple parallel universes, considering, well, that's down to his Clairvoyance, not the abilities of Avalon, so this argument makes no sense. Avalon is a prison for him, where he was locked up, his clairvoyance is his own ability unrelated to it.

I concede on these points because I realized that Saber Artoria can literally be summoned across different worlds that has straight up different rules.

We already talked about how this intepreation of Avalon is backed by quite literally nothing. Destroying the entire Earth would entail destroying Avalon as that's part of it, Goetia however, did not do that, he has the ability to punch a hole through the Earth which would destroy it, however he never did fire that focused version into the Earth, Mash blocked it and died

Goetia however did destroy the world. What Goetia failed to do is destroy Earth from genesis but he did accomplish destroying Earth across every moment of 3000 years.

As I said above, the thing you posted as evidence they can't even reach 4d is outright incorrect. The materials specified that the reason it wasn't possible wasn't exactly a lack of strength, but rather a lack of privilege. It is specified to be a system administrator privilege, and the materials say "As in the events of the present work, existences such as Archimedes and Dark Eliza were submitted to record by Moon Cell, Sliding will be prospectively disallowed to them as well."

Meaning it's not their level of power that was the issue, or allowing them to do it, it's the mooncell not allowing it normally, and them being able to slip past that when corrupted, for a limited time, because they weren't recorded by it, and thus not subject to the rules it has. But when they are recorded, they'd be stopped.

Now, even if you ignore this, and say "Well the mooncell being 8d doesn't count because reasons" it being able to produce such a thing means it observed it in the rest of the World (universe or multiverse not planet), because that's what the mooncell can reproduce, observed things. So the possibly 8d would stay even if you disregard all evidence about the mooncell

It is a matter of strength, the whole purpose of being corrupted by the Umbral Star Spiritrons is to strengthen someone's existence which will allow them to send their cyber frame across parallel worlds.

This argument only works if you assume they can't do anything 4d because of power, even assuming this, it's irrelevant because the wall isn't what was 8d, the mooncell is. This is because the wall cuts through 8 dimensions, meaning the space it occupies is 8 dimensional, i.e the mooncell, so those who scale are 8d

The space it occupies (which is SERAPH) is made out of spiritrons which are again, incapable of even touching anything 4D related. Yea sure Umbral Star Spiritrons exists but BB isn't one of the people corrupted by it though so there's still no reason to assume she actually performed an 8D feat.

1. They're stored as light so they're less impressive.

Incorrect, it says the results of the simulations are stored as light there, however the actual universes do still exist, those are merely the records, something talked about in the Extra games. This is shown by the very fact that sliding is possible for Archimedes and co, and that parallel worlds for the events of Seraph exist (Foxtail, CCC, etc). This is in addition to things like Last Encore, where it was going to specifically shut down and prune all parallel worlds, which means they do exist at any given time. The light is the so called records, as said there, the results.

• Sliding via sending a strengthened spiritron cyber frame. This essentially just means that the Moon Cell is capable of doing something similar to rayshifting which makes sense given rayshfting is done via Trismegestus which is based off of Trihermes, a Pseudo-Spiritron engine, that is based off of the Moon Cell which is also a Pseudo-Spiritron engine. Also don't get things twisted, rayshifting is done to time travel, what spiritrons are incapable of doing is straight up going through the walls of space-time. Very different things. Point being made is that Archimedes slides through parallel worlds not because they're inside the Moon Cell, but because he is getting rayshifted to the parallel worlds.
• Those parallel worlds are not what's inside the Moon Cell though so I don't see the purpose of bringing them up. What's inside the Moon Cell is possibilities recorded in light. The possibilities being pruned in Last Encore are merely the Moon Cell's simulations which again are only light.

2. "There can't be infinite because muh energy".

I've said this numerous times, but this is both not actually what the Japanese text says, and not what the English text even says.

What the text says is "The energy to account for the proliferation of unnecessary worlds, exists nowhere within this Dimension"

This point about proliferation is repeated a few times there, the issue is not the number, but the process of creating more and more starting from said number, when those new worlds don't have any potential to branch anymore. Which means if we already have infinite as an established fact (FGO Goetia line, Zelretch in FSN, etc), infinite is still fine, as the number was never the issue, only the process continuing on dead end worlds, the ones that get pruned because they can't produce more worlds due to whatever factors (too advanced, humanity died, Arjuna Alter does a cycle every week, etc)

Another piece to support the fact its the process it doesn't want to expend energy on uselessly is that the Compiled Events section of the materials mentions that the entire reason they're pruned is because the outcome is certain, and only wants to reach an outcome that no one knows yet, so taking that into account, this even further shows the number isn't a problem, but that it's a waste of time and energy to create worlds where you already know what will happen

So you're telling me that I spent $50 for the collector's edition of Fate/Extella and receive a mistranslated material book? Because it is quite literally straight up spoon fed to us that the general idea behind the Quantum Time Lock is that the universe has a finite amount of energy, any justification to at least make it seem the Moon Cell does have infinite energy is outright false through sheer virtue that the universe indeed has finite energy. Also whether the issue is the simulations or the processing power of creating more is irrelevant since both still suggests finite energy. And arguing that because the Moon Cell records history it means each simulation goes on forever won't work given that the Moon Cell's recordings are explicitly about human history. Also, "The Moon Cell is highly adept to predicting the future (in most situations)" all the more suggests only having finite energy.

This doesn't suggest they're the same world though? Merely that they branch off from the same events. We're also shown they outright aren't the same, with again, the entire sliding thing, and Last Encore. The entire point of sliding was to slide to another world that wasn't as far ahead so as to avoid the mooncell's pruning of the worlds Archimedes failed in, because he could go to a point before the QTL would be put in place, something that's not possible if they're in the same world/timeline

They are branched off from the same events meaning they are only branch timelines but are fundamentally the same world. An example of an actual straight up parallel world situation would be the Illyaverse and the Miyuverse, both straight up don't have the same history and they aren't branches from one timeline. Also again, the whole sliding thing has nothing to do with the Moon Cell's simulations. The Moon Cell simulations are merely possibilities of the same world recorded as light. The sliding thing is straight up rayshifting from one space-time to the other.

Its computational power is what's being talked about here, which is, if you didn't know, is impossible to quantify for AP, specifically because planets are all massive in Fate (as stated in lb 5.2, Earth's top texture alone includes the known universe as a part of it because that's what humans understand, and that's just one of the planets, oh and even moons are alive and likely massive, as shown by there being a Type Moon, and a Type for the Oort cloud)

The notion of the man texture including the known universe is literally refuted by the fact that after Goetia nuked Earth the known universe is quite frankly still intact.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The incineration of humanity destroyed the world, no? Should that not entail that the world is straight up nuked? Therefore destroying the world =/= destroying Avalon.

Provably false with Chaldea, which is in Antartica, not being destroyed.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The notion of the man texture including the known universe is literally refuted by the fact that after Goetia nuked Earth the known universe is quite frankly still intact.

Are you serious? Are you joking me right now? Is David Chapelle gonna jump into this thread and say "gotcha bitch"?

Chaldea is in Antartica, not some alternate dimension not connected to Earth, but Antartica. This was revealed in the Prologue of the lostbelts. You are very ill prepared for this

The space it occupies (which is SERAPH) is made out of spiritrons which are again, incapable of even touching anything 4D related. Yea sure Umbral Star Spiritrons exists but BB isn't one of the people corrupted by it though so there's still no reason to assume she actually performed an 8D feat.

You see, while when talking about fiction you need to have context down. Tell me why we should assume Nasuverse's space-times are 4-D when Avalon, which is indeed effected by time to my knowledge, is 6-D?

 

[Paul_Frank]

The incineration of humanity destroyed the world, no? Should that not entail that the world is straight up nuked? Therefore destroying the world =/= destroying Avalon.

No, he surface wiped, that's why AAS was high 6-A for a while

I reckon that is absolutely meaningless. That quite frankly isn't the only time Nasu wrote something to be "infinite whilst small". The Chaos Tide is described to be an infinite sized 4D construct but got decimated by flames from the sun.

Decimated by the full output divine authority of Quetzlcoatl, which scales, pretty big difference there

Goetia however did destroy the world. What Goetia failed to do is destroy Earth from genesis but he did accomplish destroying Earth across every moment of 3000 years.

As I said above, he surface wiped, he didn't blow up the planet, otherwise the threat of being able to punch a hole through the planet made in Solomon would make 0 sense

It is a matter of strength, the whole purpose of being corrupted by the Umbral Star Spiritrons is to strengthen someone's existence which will allow them to send their cyber frame across parallel worlds.

Incorrect, please read the section where it mentions the mooncell removing their ability to slide when they're finally recorded. This shows that it's not a strength issue, it's a rules issue, and the only reason they're able to is because they're not recorded, and the instant they are, they'll be subject to the rules. This is why in game, they had to try and slide the instant an outcome was reached, so there would be no recording or QTL

The space it occupies (which is SERAPH) is made out of spiritrons which are again, incapable of even touching anything 4D related. Yea sure Umbral Star Spiritrons exists but BB isn't one of the people corrupted by it though so there's still no reason to assume she actually performed an 8D feat.

I've explained this above, but even humoring the incorrect idea of "its exclusively a power thing stopping them from breaking through worlds", the landscapes of the Serial Phantasm is what's made of spiritons, not the entire mooncell, so the wall would still be able to be passing through 8 dimensions if it was made this way even with this erroneous interpretation, which shows the mooncell itself is still 8d.

• Sliding via sending a strengthened spiritron cyber frame. This essentially just means that the Moon Cell is capable of doing something similar to rayshifting which makes sense given rayshfting is done via Trismegestus which is based off of Trihermes, a Pseudo-Spiritron engine, that is based off of the Moon Cell which is also a Pseudo-Spiritron engine. Also don't get things twisted, rayshifting is done to time travel, what spiritrons are incapable of doing is straight up going through the walls of space-time. Very different things. Point being made is that Archimedes slides through parallel worlds not because they're inside the Moon Cell, but because he is getting rayshifted to the parallel worlds.

This is a lot of explanation to say a whole lot of nothing at all, so I'm not sure what to address here. Rayshifting is projecting the soul into the past since time travel is normally impossible, okay?

Although if you want to mention rayshifting, this directly goes against your ideas of spiritons being unable to cross some space time barrier and leave their time axis, because, funnily enough, singularities are explicitly not in the same temporal axis as us. What does this mean? It means that they're crossing these supposed impenetrable space time barriers every time they rayshift, which provides even more proof, ontop of the text outright saying this, that it's a rules issue in the mooncell, not a power one.

• Those parallel worlds are not what's inside the Moon Cell though so I don't see the purpose of bringing them up. What's inside the Moon Cell is possibilities recorded in light. The possibilities being pruned in Last Encore are merely the Moon Cell's simulations which again are only light.

I explained this in my response, but seeing as you missed it, the text you posted as evidence for this point says the results are stored
The results, or as other parts of Extra mention, records, are just that. The completed records/results of a finished world, not the actual, very visibly present, universes, but the ended one and the compilation of its events.

So you're telling me that I spent $50 for the collector's edition of Fate/Extella and receive a mistranslated material book?

Yes

Because it is quite literally straight up spoon fed to us that the general idea behind the Quantum Time Lock is that the universe has a finite amount of energy, any justification to at least make it seem the Moon Cell does have infinite energy is outright false through sheer virtue that the universe indeed has finite energy.

What is spoonfed to you is that the universe doesn't want to waste energy producing more dead end worlds, the proliferation, the process of making them, is repeatedly said to be the issue, and the other thing I mentioned from the Compiled Events section of the mats further says this, basically saying that it just doesn't want to waste energy on making outcomes which are certain. It's not the number, and thus the numerous statements that give us an infinite number can hold up, as they're never said to be the issue.

Also whether the issue is the simulations or the processing power of creating more is irrelevant since both still suggests finite energy. And arguing that because the Moon Cell records history it means each simulation goes on forever won't work given that the Moon Cell's recordings are explicitly about human history. Also, "The Moon Cell is highly adept to predicting the future (in most situations)" all the more suggests only having finite energy.

The recordings being about human history says nothing about the amount of energy, nor does it being able to predict the future in most situations. Even for a second assuming it has finite energy and thus can't have infinite universes because reasons, the mats you linked explicitly tell us it can affect the outside world when wished on.

Do you remember Twice's use of it in Last Encore? To end all parallel worlds, which would affect the outside too, as per his goal. So it would be able to affect the infinite parallel worlds outside the mooncell as well, which proves it does have enough energy for infinite universes.

Do you see why your argument here doesn't hold up?

They are branched off from the same events meaning they are only branch timelines but are fundamentally the same world.

No, this is supported by quite literally nothing. They are different worlds, that have the same or similar events leading up to their divergence, this is explicitly stated to be the case for parallel worlds, or similar ones, as when Nasu said this was the case for Stay Night (the same until Shirou makes certain choices), Clock Tower and FGO (same until Lev kills himself), etc. They aren't one timeline, they're multiple ones with similar events, which funnily enough, is shown by our good friend Archimedes sliding, or Zelretch hopping between them or observing them, or the numerous other examples of this stuff

An example of an actual straight up parallel world situation would be the Illyaverse and the Miyuverse, both straight up don't have the same history and they aren't branches from one timeline. Also again, the whole sliding thing has nothing to do with the Moon Cell's simulations. The Moon Cell simulations are merely possibilities of the same world recorded as light. The sliding thing is straight up rayshifting from one space-time to the other.

I explained the light thing twice now, so I won't do it again, but not having a similar history is not a requirement for parallel worlds, otherwise you're saying that anything with MWI is all one timeline/universe because they have similar histories up to a point

The notion of the man texture including the known universe is literally refuted by the fact that after Goetia nuked Earth the known universe is quite frankly still intact.

Because he didn't blow up the planet, correct, there's no refutation of it. Goetia surface wiped and started his ritual, then he was stopped

Lostbelt 5.2 then tells us about the known universe being part of the texture, there are no issues here unless you purposely misinterpret what Goetia did in a completely illogical fashion

 

[DaReaperMan]

Chaldea being in Antartica kind of just contradicts AAA surface wiping but then again that wasn't solidified at the time lol