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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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FinePoint said:
It's sort of implied it needs to finish hatching before it starts destroying the world, and they only can't beat it because it's hatching fast.

"How the hell are we supposed to... beat it?"

"I... I don't think we can... it's hatching so fast."

And this is right before him coming up with the idea that Kris could be able to seal it (as an unless), implying he considered fighting it possible provided it was hatching slower, implying it must be much stronger when fully hatched.
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I mean the implications of the "I... I don't think we can... it's hatching so fast" statement is also applying to the current status of the Titan as well. I agree Ralsei did not think that they could defeat the Titan without the seal, but I think sealing it to seal the deal (no pun intended) for defeating the Titan would be present regardless of the current state the Titan was in.

And I mean, that’s the only two lines of dialogue that point to the Titan (s) having to form their power overtime. The monologue Ralsei has about the Roaring in Chapter 2 points to them simply forming and devastating the land almost instantly as that’s their only purpose. Coupled with the dialogue in Chapter 4, it would only make sense to me that after creation, they develop and start to fulfill their only purpose without conscious or a moral compass to hold back against the Lightners. And even then, I would think it was all but fully formed the time it found the Fun Gang.


FinePoint said:
So do you think 8-C, Likely 4-A is reasonable?

With Gerson just straight-up 4-A?
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I wouldn’t be too upset with that if that ends up being the tiering, I just wouldn’t want the implications to be that the Titan is not 4-A at all, because it just points to it being that being the case.

I mean I guess the argument then is that Gerson can hold back so much in his boss fight with Susie (and ig Kris) to the point of being 8-C…. Idk I just find 4-A for main cast at least making a lot more sense narratively. And yes, I’m a firm 4-A advocate for Gerson the absolute GOAT

But no, I wouldn’t be against a “8-C, Likely 4-A” tier for everyone if that ends up being the overall consensus
 
On another note, I don’t know what everyone’s perspective is for scaling back to Chapters 1-2, but doesn’t Rouxls unironically provide consistency there? There’s no reason to presume he’s gotten physically stronger between 2-3, and while he has more hax this time around…. He’s still portrayed as inferior to Tenna and Queen. He can damage the Fun Gang/comparable to others, and hell he even gets chased off and attacked by the Shadow enemies in Chapter 3.

Unless you wanna make the argument that Rouxls in Chapter 3 > Queen, Spamton NEO, Jevil….. idk. It’s hilarious to me that Rouxls unironically could make the tiering consistent
 
The_Almighty_Wholesome said:
But no, I wouldn’t be against a “8-C, Likely 4-A” tier for everyone if that ends up being the overall consensus
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I mean, I wouldn't die on this hill either.
A lot of my arguments are vibes-based at the end of the day.

I do give a lot of credit to vibes since fiction does too, but I wouldn't hold up the CRT or anything over it.
 
FinePoint said:
If it's not using its full power in its attacks.

We know it's not actually conscious, currently 'hatching' and a lot of its attacks are throwing its babies at you.

It doesn't really feel thematically correct for the Fun Gang to scale to it.
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Nah.

We do not assume that being mindless means not going all out, why would it mean having a restrain? Animals do not know the concept of going soft, especially if extremely destructive ones like this know just how to kill and destroy.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Nah.

We do not assume that being mindless means not going all out, why would it mean having a restrain? Animals do not know the concept of going soft, especially if extremely destructive ones like this know just how to kill and destroy.
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Well my argument hinges more on it not being hatched and doing some kind of preparation.

It being mindless is just reason it wouldn't go out of its way to attack the Fun Gang with full power if it's not also doing that to all of its surroundings.
 
FinePoint said:
It being mindless is just reason it wouldn't go out of its way to attack the Fun Gang with full power if it's not also doing that to all of its surroundings.
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Why would an entity which as Ralsei states primarily exists for nothing but destruction hold back it's full power against anything, living or not? It holding back it's power kinda goes against it's own existence.
 
I think maybe the Titan isn't in its full form, which would make it weaker than a "normal" Titan
But I still believe this Titan is 4-A, perhaps the fuller form would be even more powerful

But that's my interpretation
 
LittleGuy99 said:
I think maybe the Titan isn't in its full form, which would make it weaker than a "normal" Titan
But I still believe this Titan is 4-A, perhaps the fuller form would be even more powerful

But that's my interpretation
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If i had to guess, eventually the chapter 4 titan page will be turned into a general species page for The Titans and it'll get a good ol' varies tier for when Toby Fox for no particular reason begins writing tier 1-2 type shit.
 
I think we have Annoying dog in 8-C, possibly 4-A as well because in his secret scenes he is able to kill Kris quickly with the cart in the bell room and possibly give a one-shot/rewind time during the piano scene when the player plays megalovania (Also added flight via the cart because it came towards Kris flying)
 
EnderLord8 said:
I think we have Annoying dog in 8-C, possibly 4-A as well because in his secret scenes he is able to kill Kris quickly with the cart in the bell room and possibly give a one-shot/rewind time during the piano scene when the player plays megalovania (Also added flight via the cart because it came towards Kris flying)
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We don't have an annoying dog profile anymore.
 
Comiphorous said:
Why would an entity which as Ralsei states primarily exists for nothing but destruction hold back it's full power against anything, living or not? It holding back it's power kinda goes against it's own existence.
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I'm not saying it would do so consciously, but it might be weaker or have other priorities before it hatches.
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not saying it would do so consciously, but it might be weaker or have other priorities before it hatches.
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Perhaps.

If only it wasn't a buzzkill with that whole "destroy the planet in the apocalyptic event" thing it had going on and just had a conversation with the fun gang.
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not saying it would do so consciously, but it might be weaker or have other priorities before it hatches.
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Sorry, but this is way too speculative. What priorities would a being that only knows to destroy have other than to destroy? Until we have further information, we should assume that it is not holding back and isn't weakened by default due to lack of evidence.
 
LightSoul8 said:
Sorry, but this is way too speculative. What priorities would a being that only knows to destroy have other than to destroy? Until we have further information, we should assume that it is not holding back and isn't weakened by default due to lack of evidence.
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To be fair, I think it's a pretty reasonable and almost universally supported assumption that a baby or hatchling of any species is generally weaker than when fully grown/hatched, so without elaboration I don't think it's 'way too speculative' to think that.

And by other priorities I'm referring to finishing hatching and "spawning", which we do see it do.
 
Comiphorous said:
Perhaps.

If only it wasn't a buzzkill with that whole "destroy the planet in the apocalyptic event" thing it had going on and just had a conversation with the fun gang.
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Our lives would be a lot easier if more villains still ranted about their entire evil plan and backstory to the heroes before doing anything. 😞
 
Agnaa said:
I mean, if we're assuming that they're mindlessly unleashing their full power, why is the scale of destruction it dishes out far smaller? We probably couldn't pull something above Tier 8 from the stuff we see in Chapter 4, and the Roaring involves multiple of them "enveloping the land in devastation", visually shown as them coating it with fire.

Seems a bit lower than 4-A.
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Well, at least three of them, though Ralsei seems generally as afraid of one ending the world.

You're right though that the power showcased while hatching is very underwhelming from that perspective, which probably gives more credit to my "it's weaker because it's still hatching" theory.
 
FinePoint said:
Though Ralsei seems generally as afraid of one ending the world.
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I don't have all the statements in my mind right now, could you dig that one up?

I wonder if he's worried about a threat to the real world, or more to them in that dark world.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't have all the statements in my mind right now, could you dig that one up?

I wonder if he's worried about a threat to the real world, or more to them in that dark world.
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Chapter 2, in reference to Berdly opening one additional fountain (so unaffected by the argument the Knight used many swords):

"You'll bring the Roaring."

And now we know that one fountainception = one Titan, implying one would've been enough.
 
Agnaa said:
I mean, if we're assuming that they're mindlessly unleashing their full power, why is the scale of destruction it dishes out far smaller? We probably couldn't pull something above Tier 8 from the stuff we see in Chapter 4, and the Roaring involves multiple of them "enveloping the land in devastation", visually shown as them coating it with fire.

Seems a bit lower than 4-A.
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Is that visual really that reliable considering Ralsei is giving it to us, when they're still trying to hide as much information about The Roaring as possible? (and still is by Chapter 4)
 
Comiphorous said:
Is that visual really that reliable considering Ralsei is giving it to us, when they're still trying to hide as much information about The Roaring as possible? (and still is by Chapter 4)
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He's trying to hide the whole prophecy, but he's pretty open about the Roaring and how it's the end of the world.

Regardless I agree we shouldn't put too much credit on those little visuals, especially since we don't see the Titan do anything remotely fire related.
 
FinePoint said:
Chapter 2, in reference to Berdly opening one additional fountain (so unaffected by the argument the Knight used many swords):

"You'll bring the Roaring."

And now we know that one fountainception = one Titan, implying one would've been enough.
Click to expand...
Ahh that's what you mean.

Yeah I find it a bit odd how he's always worried about one additional fountain bringing the Roaring. Yet in Chapters 1 and 4 we saw multiple fountains right near each other without that occurring.

I might be misremembering but I think there's also a statement where he's worried about the extra fountain in Chapter 1 merely staying around for a while.

Maybe he's acting out of an abundance of caution? (If I give them the go-ahead to keep/make more, then they'll continue doing this until the Roaring occurs, or make it easier for others to create the Roaring).
Comiphorous said:
Is that visual really that reliable considering Ralsei is giving it to us, when they're still trying to hide as much information about The Roaring as possible? (and still is by Chapter 4)
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Not too reliable. I think that evidence is fairly weak, but it's something.

Although that does make me wonder if any of the prophecy stuff in Chapter 4 has indications about this.
 
Agnaa said:
Ahh that's what you mean.

Yeah I find it a bit odd how he's always worried about one additional fountain bringing the Roaring. Yet in Chapters 1 and 4 we saw multiple fountains right near each other without that occurring.
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Well I think multiple fountains can be opened in the Light World without spawning a Titan, but not if they're opened in the Dark World.

For example, the multiple fountains in the church were all opened in different rooms in the Light World.

He could just be cautious though, that would also make sense.
 
Oh, and theory with no actual evidence, but I just thought of it:

It could be due to the nature of "darkness" having different levels even past pitch black in Deltarune.

Opening more fountains in the Light World = more of the same darkness.

Opening a fountain in the Dark World = an even darker darkness, presumably what the Titan is made of.
 
FinePoint said:
He's trying to hide the whole prophecy, but he's pretty open about the Roaring and how it's the end of the world.
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Susie gets on Ralsei's case about not explaining The Roaring until berdly almost started it. Ralsei is very weird about info unless it'll literally get them all killed. (and then act like an asshole to everyone as if he isn't the only one who knows this shit i hate this stupid ass goat)

I think until Ralsei gets his act together, a lot of the info he says should be taken with a grain of salt, since he's more than likely leaving context out to hide something from the others.
Agnaa said:
Not too reliable. I think that evidence is fairly weak, but it's something.

Although that does make me wonder if any of the prophecy stuff in Chapter 4 has indications about this.
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Isn't most of the prophecy stuff talking about the roaring mostly just rehashes of what Ralsei says? I don't remember all that well but i don't recall any new info being revealed about it.
 
Stepping a bit back to the earlier conversation, is there only the one statement about the Titan "hatching"? Because if it's just after they climb off the pillar for the first time, the Titan's still encased in the pillar at that point. GodlyCharmander mentioned to me that the hatching could refer to breaking from that, which would imply it had hatched by the time the fight starts. And I find that idea quite compelling, tbh.
Comiphorous said:
Isn't most of the prophecy stuff talking about the roaring mostly just rehashes of what Ralsei says? I don't remember all that well but i don't recall any new info being revealed about it.
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Yeah, but if we get concrete wording from that more reliable source, or perhaps even an illustration, that could solidify things.
 
Comiphorous said:
Susie gets on Ralsei's case about not explaining The Roaring until berdly almost started it. Ralsei is very weird about info unless it'll literally get them all killed. (and then act like an asshole to everyone as if he isn't the only one who knows this shit i hate this stupid ass goat)
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He tells them that imbalance between light and dark will end the world as soon as he meets them, he's just not as specific about it.
 
Agnaa said:
Stepping a bit back to the earlier conversation, is there only the one statement about the Titan "hatching"? Because if it's just after they climb off the pillar for the first time, the Titan's still encased in the pillar at that point. GodlyCharmander mentioned to me that the hatching could refer to breaking from that, which would imply it had hatched by the time the fight starts. And I find that idea quite compelling, tbh.
Click to expand...
We do watch it break open a part of the stone pillar with it's arm as it's first summoned. "hatching" is meant to be taken literal. It probably released itself from the casing before the fight.
 
Agnaa said:
Stepping a bit back to the earlier conversation, is there only the one statement about the Titan "hatching"? Because if it's just after they climb off the pillar for the first time, the Titan's still encased in the pillar at that point. GodlyCharmander mentioned to me that the hatching could refer to breaking from that, which would imply it had hatched by the time the fight starts. And I find that idea quite compelling, tbh.
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I can't find another one.
 
Agnaa said:
GodlyCharmander also brought up an interesting speed-related point.

The Gerson Statue attacks about as quickly as the sound waves it creates during a cutscene, limiting its speed to around Supersonic.

That doesn't singlehandedly demolish Relativistic ratings or anything, but it's a piece of evidence against.
Click to expand...
Well, the sound waves appear to move really slowly even when nobody is moving. Plus Susie dodges that attack while blind.

So either: Susie views sound waves as very slow (which would make sense if she's relativistic), or these aren't really sound waves.
 
burgerpants (dark world variant, thus amplifying their travel speed because other lightners can dodge sound or something) blitzing gerson via sheer travel speed be like:

41d5na.gif
 
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