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Debunking Multiversal Shin Megami Tensei

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PurgeX0

PurgeX0

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A common misconception among this community is, that the MegaTen series is multiversal, and extremely powerful. However, I am here to refute this claim, by going through a few misconceptions.

First off, there is only one Kagutsuchi for each universe. This would be at best, a universal feat. There was not just 1 Kagutsuchi that was overseeing all of the Amala network, it was only one Kagutsuchi for each universe. He didn't even kill Kagutsuchi for good, he only defeated him. Also, it said that Kagutsuchi comes to existence, matures, and falls all over one universe at a time, not an omnipresent dude where if one is destroyed, all is destroyed with it.

Other people claim that by destroying Kagutsuchi, he destroyed the multiverse. Yet somehow, Lucifer's army was totally intact, and we could see it. There is no way demons like Jack Frost are multiversal. This is an absurd claim.

All in all, I think all of MegaTen should be downgrade to 3-A. Even YHVH from SMT IV:A, as he literally says that he rules over the universe, not a multiverse. Let's also keep in mind that there was not an infinite number of YHVH heads. The number of heads was the same as the number of stars, as confirmed by Masayuki Doi.
 
Because it's so increably stupid that you can't be serious.
 
DMUA said:
Because it's so increably stupid that you can't be serious.
Click to expand...
Now, I've never been interested in SMT at all (Nor' do I know anything about it) and I stumbled across this thread in chat. All I have to say is that you guys/gals are acting a bit rough on the poster for something like this. We should actually try to propel the main topic of the thread forwards rather than constantly derailing it. Unless, of course, this is supposedly just clusterbumping it for the purpose of one of the experts on the verse to come in and smite the OP for the reasons above, then I really don't know.
 
Schroeder is the expert on SMT

I'm just waiting for him to post the mega anti-debunking reply I'm sure he's writing up.
 
Here's how these kinds of threads go:


They start with memes


Then the serious guys come in and absolutely destroy the proposed argument


Then we close the pointless thread.
 
"First off, there is only one Kagutsuchi for each universe. This would be at best, a universal feat."

False. Kagutsuchi is the overseer of the entire Amala Universe, which is composed of infinite realities with billions being created and destroyed every second.

"There was not just 1 Kagutsuchi that was overseeing all of the Amala network, it was only one Kagutsuchi for each universe"

No, Kagutsuchi can simply manifest in multiple universes as it is omnipresent.

"He didn't even kill Kagutsuchi for good, he only defeated him"

The_moon_is_dead.png


Okay.

"Also, it said that Kagutsuchi comes to existence, matures, and falls all over one universe at a time"

No my dude, that's completely out of context. The Conception / Creation of the Vortex World (Which is itself a multi-universal realm, as it is the physical universe + the demon world merged together) is an event that happens across one universe, but conceptions are happening everywhere throughout the multiverse to the point where there are billions of old universes being destroyed and billions of new universes being born every second.

"Other people claim that by destroying Kagutsuchi, he destroyed the multiverse."

He did. Upon killing Kagutsuchi, there's a gigantic explosion and then the Demi-Fiend is wondering through an empty void. Lucifer appears and tells him that he just killed time. Which is consistent with the Prophecy of Miroku in the beginning of the game, which speaks of the destruction of Sangai (Which means the three aspects of time: Past, present and future).

"There is no way demons like Jack Frost are multiversal. This is an absurd claim."

He isn't. But demons in SMT are abstract beings who reside outside space and time in the Expanse / Demon World / Atziluth World, which are created through men's thoughts, observations and languages, and can never truly be destroyed. Lucifer even explains it in SMT II in the New Game+, stating that he is impossible to truly die as he exists all throughout time.

Also, Mid-Godly Regenerationn is a thing. As well as Type 8 Immortality.

"All in all, I think all of MegaTen should be downgrade to 3-A."

Okay.

Let's completely ignore stuff like Morax, a complete fodder, arguably creating a space-time continuum. Or Surtur burning the nine worlds, which are nine universes. Or Yggdrasil which contains the nine worlds literally being a boss fight. Or Mem Aleph's Schwarzwelt which is composed of numerous alternate space-time continuums and parallel realities. Or Ouroboros which is the embodiment of infinity and eternity. Or ******* Loki and Seth having their private universes. Or Izanami and Izanagi creating the universe. Or the National Defense Divinities being unbound by the laws of physics and containing infinite power. Or higher-dimensional beings like Sanat. Or YHVH having his own multi-layered reality which exists beyond the multiverse, with its lowest layer being infinitely larger than the multiverse.

"Let's also keep in mind that there was not an infinite number of YHVH heads. The number of heads was the same as the number of stars, as confirmed by Masayuki Doi."

It is infinite. The multiverse is repeatedly confirmed to be infinite since Megami Tensei 2. Doi was obviously being metaphorical when he said that it was the number of stars. Also if it is the number of stars in the SMT world, then it is infinite stars since multiverse exists there.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Oh, so you're just trolling now?
Real mature.
Click to expand...
Let me guess

You think I was being serious at first

And then when the argument was tossed out the window, you think I lied to make myself look not as stupid


Wrong answer if that's what you think.
 
He actually mentioned this was a joke earlier in the thread

That said, Purge then put this in fun and games, you just made this difficult for everyone.
 
Wait, if this thread isn't supposed to be taken seriously... why it was even made in the first place...? (and in the damn content revisions board)
 
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