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Death Star Possible Upgrade

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But it does seem to contradict the movies. Like the TLJ Dreadnought being considered super powerful when random ISDs in the comics can outperform it easily.
 
the last jedi breaks cannon with the hyperspace ram and the dead has 34 weapons and imperial star destroyer has over 130 emplacements. The dreadnought is a plot device.
 
Well, unless you support theories such as the asteroids in empire strikes back not being vaporized and being made of something that's not nickel iron, you're going to get triple digit kilotons to double digit megatons going by that. Not to mention the ISDs were being pelted by said asteroids for an unknown but long time frame and asteroids in space move at roughly 30 kilometers per second. Even a 10 meter asteroid which we see hit an ISD and did no damage would yield triple digit kilotons easily.

There is also Slave 1 in episode 2 destroying asteroids and ofc the explosion seen in the last Jedi which has been calculated being gigatons.

Maybe we should look at those scenes and see if we can come to a consensus?
 
TheMerchant66 said:
Well, unless you support theories such as the asteroids in empire strikes back not being vaporized and being made of something that's not nickel iron, you're going to get triple digit kilotons to double digit megatons going by that. Not to mention the ISDs were being pelted by said asteroids for an unknown but long time frame and asteroids in space move at roughly 30 kilometers per second. Even a 10 meter asteroid which we see hit an ISD and did no damage would yield triple digit kilotons easily.

There is also Slave 1 in episode 2 destroying asteroids and ofc the explosion seen in the last Jedi which has been calculated being gigatons.

Maybe we should look at those scenes and see if we can come to a consensus?
Click to expand...
Hoth_Asteroid_Belt_TESB.png


The asteroids in Empire are modeled on C-type asteroids, which are made of clay and silicate rock. Even if they were nickel-iron, that still won't get you anywhere near the gigaton yields needed to melt a planetary crust. Also, the mere idea of the Slave 1 having gigaton weapons is ludicrous: the asteroids it blasted in that scene were these little 10-30~ foot pieces, and they only fragmented.
 
The only weapon I proposed being gigatons is the FO dreadnought from TLJ. I am fine with Kiloton to Megaton weaponry for weaker ships.


Iirc there is time frame one can work with for an upper limit to ISDs in Empire. We do see the bridge of an ISD get taken out by a 70 meter asteroid after said ISDs were in the field for some time. The time frame from when the ISDs got in the field seem to have lasted as long as when Luke met Yoda and later was walking with Yoda to Yodas hut, so I propose using movie time frame for that.


Also interesting never knew the asteroids were modeled after C types, I'm fine with using that for a lower limit then.
 
The Big Brain Arguments and the claims that the EU was never canon to the films and dismissing any higher wield scene such as the one in the Vader Comic as visual exaggeration is top tier kekking material.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Big Brain Arguments and the claims that the EU was never canon to the films and dismissing any higher wield scene such as the one in the Vader Comic as visual exaggeration is top tier kekking material.
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Not when Lucas outright said the EU wasn't a part of his universe. That quote has been posted already.
 
EU is part of the universe, that has always been the case and trying to change everything out of nowhere to downplay Star Wars is silly.
 
he also called lightsabers laser sword witch is contradicted multiple times in the movies. They are visible soild shorted beams of electromagnetic radiation and plasma.
 
Didn't Disney expunge the EU as well? I am perfectly fine with it existing as profiled and whatnot but the stuff that's Canon to thr movies isn't exactly part of thr extended universe, to my knowledge.
 
The profiles in use (on this site) are Legends EU and the Disney Canon EU. Even under the assumption that the films consider Legends non-canon, the wiki would still include them since there isn't a "Film only" key.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The profiles in use (on this site) are Legends EU and the Disney Canon EU. Even under the assumption that the films consider Legends non-canon, the wiki would still include them since there isn't a "Film only" key.
Click to expand...
With the direction this thread has gone in, there should be a "Film only" key. The feats in the comics are consistently out-of-scale to the films by orders of magnitude..
 
He is also complaining about everytime there's any differences between the original movies and the expanded media that came later and using it as a way to say it isn't canon, and winging about everytime a high-wield weapon doesn't do massive destruction with its shots.

Like him raging about the stated 1 Kiloton Wield of the Slave-I's cannons and how it should have "vaporized Obi-Wan!!!" (Instead of, say, Obi Wan being Town level?). Even ignoring that in the movie proper the Slave-I has blown up asteroids in feats which wielded more than one Kiloton in calcs.

Basically, everytime there's any feat higher than Star Wars Rebels' stupid, low-end, kiddified Orbital Bombardment scene he's acting like it magically isn't canon.
 
 
I'm pretty sure canon and things like media licensing wouldn't just go to Lucas himself, @Idazmi. There's other people who worked on Star Wars, and Lucasfilm and other corporates would not just leave the decision to him. In the same year as that quote you posted, they had this to say:

"Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology."

@Wok All of those feats were well after 2014, when they created Legends, and these haven't been placed under that banner. So they're 100% canon to the films. Many of them are even about characters like Phasma.
 
That quote doesn't say what you think it does. And Lucas was never the sole source of Star Wars. Period.

The fact that you just drop here out of nowhere to advocate for shit like Room level Star Destroyer beams being the acceptable canon and making fun of everything like EU Jedi Power levels and whatnot is highly suspect.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Like him raging about the stated 1 Kiloton Wield of the Slave-I's cannons and how it should have "vaporized Obi-Wan!!!" (Instead of, say, Obi Wan being Town level?).
Click to expand...
Star Wars Episode III Obi-Wan vs
Star Wars Episode III Obi-Wan vs. General Grievous

So General Grievous is also town-level, along with E-5 blaster rifles?

Matthew Schroeder said:
The fact that you just drop here out of nowhere to advocate for shit like Room level Star Destroyer beams being the acceptable canon (...)
Click to expand...
I never said any such thing.
 
I'm fine with a film only key, it would require some effort however to get everything down rating wise. But in terms of this thread the Death Star is just.... canon to everything. So the argument is sorta moot.
 
I have no issue with General Grievous scaling to Obi-Wan's feat. In fact this site treats him as such. I don't see the big deal.

It's far from the craziest feat in the series. How about Luke Skywalkwer from the Extended Universe being outright stated to have "destructive powers that dwarfed those of the Death Star", and using the Force to reach out to distant stars and form mental connections with them, feeling as they flare and burst and influencing them whilst the narration outright states that the power of his Force shines brighter than those flaring and exploding stars.

Hell, even in Disney Canon we have shit like Yoda lifting mountain-sized aliens whose voices can deflect meteors, A New Hope Luke shaking a Star Destroyer with a force push, The Last Jedi Luke making a mountain quake with his meditation, and an amped Darth Vader manipulating a Force-channeling device causing dark clouds, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions across an entire planet as a side-effect.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I'm fine with a film only key, it would require some effort however to get everything down rating wise. But in terms of this thread the Death Star is just.... canon to everything. So the argument is sorta moot.
Click to expand...
No, it isn't. This discussion (if you read it in it's entirety) devolved into this due to ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded. I pointed out that that would be ridiculous, things escalated, and here we are.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I'm fine with a film only key, it would require some effort however to get everything down rating wise. But in terms of this thread the Death Star is just.... canon to everything. So the argument is sorta moot.
Click to expand...
Film Only canon is silly because it would completely ignore stuff like Clone Wars, Rebels and other media which are directly tied to the films, and either Expanded Universe which are both 100% canon to their respective continuities.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It's far from the craziest feat in the series. How about Luke Skywalkwer from the Extended Universe being outright stated to have "destructive powers that dwarfed those of the Death Star", and using the Force to reach out to distant stars and form mental connections with them, feeling as they flare and burst and influencing them whilst the narration outright states that the power of his Force shines brighter than those flaring and exploding stars.
Click to expand...
Thank you for illustrating my point. Movie Obi-Wan is clearly wall-level, and you're amping him to town level based on things that never, ever occur or are implied in any Lucasfilm creation, and amping Luke over solar system level using the same questionable sources. That's definitely not the kind of practice this wiki should be endorsing if we want to be taken seriously as a VS wiki.
 
@Idazmi You argued it with anti-feats and your own opinions of canon. That's ridiculous.

In canon, actual crafts have falled from orbit undamaged. Star Destroyers being that weak is heavily contradicted by the sheer durability of other spacecrafts. In A New Hope, for example, an unshielded escape pod easily survives a fall from orbit with no damage. In The Force Awakens, Finn's already disabled TIE Fighter is largely undamaged by an orbital fall and blasters. This doesn't even account for the strength of deflectors, and it's already into the Large Building level range.
 
Movie Obi-Wan isn't Wall level when he has higher feats in the movie proper. You clearly are the type of guy who wants all Jedi and Sith to be Subsonic and Wall level and whatnot, ignoring all sources that contradict your preconceived notions of that universe as non-canon. Even when they clearly are.

These "Movie Only" keys are idiotic. And funny enough, you are totally okay with Expanded Universe lore when it fits your narrative (The Rebels bombardment).
 
ByAsura said:
@Idazmi You argued it with anti-feats and your own opinions of canon. That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I argued it with common sense, revealing a clear and consistent contradiction between Lucasfilm and non-Lucasfilm sources.
 
Film Only canon is silly because it would completely ignore stuff like Clone Wars, Rebels and other media which are directly tied to the films, and either Expanded Universe which are both 100% canon to their respective continuities.

I don't see that as silly really, just an extra key with a more limited scope on things.

ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded

That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.
 
I don't see that as silly really, just an extra key with a more limited scope on things.

ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded

That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.

Exactly. You're making sense.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
(...) These "Movie Only" keys are idiotic. And funny enough, you are totally okay with Expanded Universe lore when it fits your narrative (The Rebels bombardment).
Click to expand...
Rebels is officially canon to Disney, as is the Clone Wars TV series. Unlike the comics, they don't inflate the yields beyond the film canon because they - like the movies - are made by Lucasfilm.
 
Disney Canon Jedi are Tier 7, they've consistently used Force Powers to destroy Tie Fighters and can use the Force to enhance their abilities with more power than the Tie Fighter lasers. And they can use the Force to enhance striking strength and durability with precision strikes. The ESU Jedi and Sith are easily far above that given the consistent Planetary, or better yet stellar stuff done by Sidious and Luke. And Luke eventually becoming literally becoming a Galactic God sort of thing in one of the ESU Comics.
 
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