- 121
- 6
Read the books of the movies lack orbital bombardments and good capital ship combat
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Death Star Possible Upgrade
- Thread starter ByAsura
- Start date
- Status
- 3,074
- 676
But it does seem to contradict the movies. Like the TLJ Dreadnought being considered super powerful when random ISDs in the comics can outperform it easily.
- 121
- 6
the last jedi breaks cannon with the hyperspace ram and the dead has 34 weapons and imperial star destroyer has over 130 emplacements. The dreadnought is a plot device.
- 228
- 158
Well, unless you support theories such as the asteroids in empire strikes back not being vaporized and being made of something that's not nickel iron, you're going to get triple digit kilotons to double digit megatons going by that. Not to mention the ISDs were being pelted by said asteroids for an unknown but long time frame and asteroids in space move at roughly 30 kilometers per second. Even a 10 meter asteroid which we see hit an ISD and did no damage would yield triple digit kilotons easily.
There is also Slave 1 in episode 2 destroying asteroids and ofc the explosion seen in the last Jedi which has been calculated being gigatons.
Maybe we should look at those scenes and see if we can come to a consensus?
There is also Slave 1 in episode 2 destroying asteroids and ofc the explosion seen in the last Jedi which has been calculated being gigatons.
Maybe we should look at those scenes and see if we can come to a consensus?
- 121
- 6
likey much higher as maybe weapons take time to generate more powerful and the asteroid belt was unusually dense to galactic standards yes please
- 121
- 6
please do that would appreciate greatly
- 384
- 119
TheMerchant66 said:
The asteroids in Empire are modeled on C-type asteroids, which are made of clay and silicate rock. Even if they were nickel-iron, that still won't get you anywhere near the gigaton yields needed to melt a planetary crust. Also, the mere idea of the Slave 1 having gigaton weapons is ludicrous: the asteroids it blasted in that scene were these little 10-30~ foot pieces, and they only fragmented.
- 121
- 6
Gigatons woiuld not tdo that it would take petatons millions of times more.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Spacebattles Invasion.
- 121
- 6
No they were hundreds of meters in diameter slave one is bigger than most fighters today. and that is not ludicrous slave one not having of those weapons are.
- 228
- 158
The only weapon I proposed being gigatons is the FO dreadnought from TLJ. I am fine with Kiloton to Megaton weaponry for weaker ships.
Iirc there is time frame one can work with for an upper limit to ISDs in Empire. We do see the bridge of an ISD get taken out by a 70 meter asteroid after said ISDs were in the field for some time. The time frame from when the ISDs got in the field seem to have lasted as long as when Luke met Yoda and later was walking with Yoda to Yodas hut, so I propose using movie time frame for that.
Also interesting never knew the asteroids were modeled after C types, I'm fine with using that for a lower limit then.
Iirc there is time frame one can work with for an upper limit to ISDs in Empire. We do see the bridge of an ISD get taken out by a 70 meter asteroid after said ISDs were in the field for some time. The time frame from when the ISDs got in the field seem to have lasted as long as when Luke met Yoda and later was walking with Yoda to Yodas hut, so I propose using movie time frame for that.
Also interesting never knew the asteroids were modeled after C types, I'm fine with using that for a lower limit then.
- 32,359
- 20,298
The Big Brain Arguments and the claims that the EU was never canon to the films and dismissing any higher wield scene such as the one in the Vader Comic as visual exaggeration is top tier kekking material.
- 121
- 6
We dor not know what type just because it looks like one does not me is is causation is not always correlation that is a logical fallacy.
- 121
- 6
yes and uplifting the side you want to win.
- 32,359
- 20,298
EU is part of the universe, that has always been the case and trying to change everything out of nowhere to downplay Star Wars is silly.
- 121
- 6
he also called lightsabers laser sword witch is contradicted multiple times in the movies. They are visible soild shorted beams of electromagnetic radiation and plasma.
- 121
- 6
stupid and incredibly dumb to reduce the material that is thanks
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
Didn't Disney expunge the EU as well? I am perfectly fine with it existing as profiled and whatnot but the stuff that's Canon to thr movies isn't exactly part of thr extended universe, to my knowledge.
- 20,549
- 17,463
The profiles in use (on this site) are Legends EU and the Disney Canon EU. Even under the assumption that the films consider Legends non-canon, the wiki would still include them since there isn't a "Film only" key.
- 32,359
- 20,298
He is also complaining about everytime there's any differences between the original movies and the expanded media that came later and using it as a way to say it isn't canon, and winging about everytime a high-wield weapon doesn't do massive destruction with its shots.
Like him raging about the stated 1 Kiloton Wield of the Slave-I's cannons and how it should have "vaporized Obi-Wan!!!" (Instead of, say, Obi Wan being Town level?). Even ignoring that in the movie proper the Slave-I has blown up asteroids in feats which wielded more than one Kiloton in calcs.
Basically, everytime there's any feat higher than Star Wars Rebels' stupid, low-end, kiddified Orbital Bombardment scene he's acting like it magically isn't canon.
Like him raging about the stated 1 Kiloton Wield of the Slave-I's cannons and how it should have "vaporized Obi-Wan!!!" (Instead of, say, Obi Wan being Town level?). Even ignoring that in the movie proper the Slave-I has blown up asteroids in feats which wielded more than one Kiloton in calcs.
Basically, everytime there's any feat higher than Star Wars Rebels' stupid, low-end, kiddified Orbital Bombardment scene he's acting like it magically isn't canon.
- 384
- 119
"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, (but) they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe. (...) I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world." - George LucasMatthew Schroeder said:
Lucas "downplayed" his own universe, then.
- 22,390
- 18,593
- Thread starter
- #145
I'm pretty sure canon and things like media licensing wouldn't just go to Lucas himself, @Idazmi. There's other people who worked on Star Wars, and Lucasfilm and other corporates would not just leave the decision to him. In the same year as that quote you posted, they had this to say:
"Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology."
@Wok All of those feats were well after 2014, when they created Legends, and these haven't been placed under that banner. So they're 100% canon to the films. Many of them are even about characters like Phasma.
"Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology."
@Wok All of those feats were well after 2014, when they created Legends, and these haven't been placed under that banner. So they're 100% canon to the films. Many of them are even about characters like Phasma.
- 32,359
- 20,298
That quote doesn't say what you think it does. And Lucas was never the sole source of Star Wars. Period.
The fact that you just drop here out of nowhere to advocate for shit like Room level Star Destroyer beams being the acceptable canon and making fun of everything like EU Jedi Power levels and whatnot is highly suspect.
The fact that you just drop here out of nowhere to advocate for shit like Room level Star Destroyer beams being the acceptable canon and making fun of everything like EU Jedi Power levels and whatnot is highly suspect.
- 20,549
- 17,463
I'm fine with a film only key, it would require some effort however to get everything down rating wise. But in terms of this thread the Death Star is just.... canon to everything. So the argument is sorta moot.
- 32,359
- 20,298
I have no issue with General Grievous scaling to Obi-Wan's feat. In fact this site treats him as such. I don't see the big deal.
It's far from the craziest feat in the series. How about Luke Skywalkwer from the Extended Universe being outright stated to have "destructive powers that dwarfed those of the Death Star", and using the Force to reach out to distant stars and form mental connections with them, feeling as they flare and burst and influencing them whilst the narration outright states that the power of his Force shines brighter than those flaring and exploding stars.
Hell, even in Disney Canon we have shit like Yoda lifting mountain-sized aliens whose voices can deflect meteors, A New Hope Luke shaking a Star Destroyer with a force push, The Last Jedi Luke making a mountain quake with his meditation, and an amped Darth Vader manipulating a Force-channeling device causing dark clouds, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions across an entire planet as a side-effect.
It's far from the craziest feat in the series. How about Luke Skywalkwer from the Extended Universe being outright stated to have "destructive powers that dwarfed those of the Death Star", and using the Force to reach out to distant stars and form mental connections with them, feeling as they flare and burst and influencing them whilst the narration outright states that the power of his Force shines brighter than those flaring and exploding stars.
Hell, even in Disney Canon we have shit like Yoda lifting mountain-sized aliens whose voices can deflect meteors, A New Hope Luke shaking a Star Destroyer with a force push, The Last Jedi Luke making a mountain quake with his meditation, and an amped Darth Vader manipulating a Force-channeling device causing dark clouds, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions across an entire planet as a side-effect.
- 384
- 119
No, it isn't. This discussion (if you read it in it's entirety) devolved into this due to ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded. I pointed out that that would be ridiculous, things escalated, and here we are.Qawsedf234 said:
- 32,359
- 20,298
Film Only canon is silly because it would completely ignore stuff like Clone Wars, Rebels and other media which are directly tied to the films, and either Expanded Universe which are both 100% canon to their respective continuities.Qawsedf234 said:
- 31,466
- 34,329
I agree with Matt here. I also agree that Idazmi is trolling.
- 384
- 119
Thank you for illustrating my point. Movie Obi-Wan is clearly wall-level, and you're amping him to town level based on things that never, ever occur or are implied in any Lucasfilm creation, and amping Luke over solar system level using the same questionable sources. That's definitely not the kind of practice this wiki should be endorsing if we want to be taken seriously as a VS wiki.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 22,390
- 18,593
- Thread starter
- #154
@Idazmi You argued it with anti-feats and your own opinions of canon. That's ridiculous.
In canon, actual crafts have falled from orbit undamaged. Star Destroyers being that weak is heavily contradicted by the sheer durability of other spacecrafts. In A New Hope, for example, an unshielded escape pod easily survives a fall from orbit with no damage. In The Force Awakens, Finn's already disabled TIE Fighter is largely undamaged by an orbital fall and blasters. This doesn't even account for the strength of deflectors, and it's already into the Large Building level range.
In canon, actual crafts have falled from orbit undamaged. Star Destroyers being that weak is heavily contradicted by the sheer durability of other spacecrafts. In A New Hope, for example, an unshielded escape pod easily survives a fall from orbit with no damage. In The Force Awakens, Finn's already disabled TIE Fighter is largely undamaged by an orbital fall and blasters. This doesn't even account for the strength of deflectors, and it's already into the Large Building level range.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Movie Obi-Wan isn't Wall level when he has higher feats in the movie proper. You clearly are the type of guy who wants all Jedi and Sith to be Subsonic and Wall level and whatnot, ignoring all sources that contradict your preconceived notions of that universe as non-canon. Even when they clearly are.
These "Movie Only" keys are idiotic. And funny enough, you are totally okay with Expanded Universe lore when it fits your narrative (The Rebels bombardment).
These "Movie Only" keys are idiotic. And funny enough, you are totally okay with Expanded Universe lore when it fits your narrative (The Rebels bombardment).
- 20,549
- 17,463
Film Only canon is silly because it would completely ignore stuff like Clone Wars, Rebels and other media which are directly tied to the films, and either Expanded Universe which are both 100% canon to their respective continuities.
I don't see that as silly really, just an extra key with a more limited scope on things.
ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded
That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.
I don't see that as silly really, just an extra key with a more limited scope on things.
ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded
That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.
- 384
- 119
I don't see that as silly really, just an extra key with a more limited scope on things.
ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded
That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.
Exactly. You're making sense.
ByAsura's belief that a Rebel fleet (MC-90s and the like) could destroy the entire Death Star One superstructure with turbolasers if it wasn't energy shielded
That is different. Yeah I don't anything but an entire armada could bring down a completed Death Star. Certainly not blow up the entire thing easily.
Exactly. You're making sense.
- 31,466
- 34,329
Disney Canon Jedi are Tier 7, they've consistently used Force Powers to destroy Tie Fighters and can use the Force to enhance their abilities with more power than the Tie Fighter lasers. And they can use the Force to enhance striking strength and durability with precision strikes. The ESU Jedi and Sith are easily far above that given the consistent Planetary, or better yet stellar stuff done by Sidious and Luke. And Luke eventually becoming literally becoming a Galactic God sort of thing in one of the ESU Comics.
- Status
Similar threads
