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DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 8, The Rebirth]

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The_Smashor said:
Mario vs Sonic 2 should be lower, as they claimed to only use properties that supported the games but then used the Super Mario Brothers Super Show and the Sonic OVA for major feats (In fact, the OVA was Sonic's main power feat they used). The gap between Mario and Hyper Sonic is also even larger than even the gap between Yang vs Tifa (While there are more tiers between High 8-C and 3-B than there are between 4-A and 2-C, the gap between 4-A and 2-C is higher, even if we don't use dimensional tiering). It also has the biggest speed gap, being Massively FTL+ vs Immeasurable. They also gave Mario power-ups that he's been shown not to be able to carry around, like SMB2's stop watch or NSMB2's Golden Flower. They also claimed that Super Sonic wouldn't scale to Solaris due to having a different power source. Even ignoring how stupid of a reason it is, this is also completely false.

I honestly think it's the #1 most wrong episode in the series. At least Bomberman technically had a small chance of accidentally killing himself with his bombs before he could blitz and one shot Dig-Dug. There is not a single situation where Hyper Sonic loses to Mario.
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There is. Aka, Sonic actually losing like he should but oh well.
 
On the serious note, this would actually be pretty close. Sonic is more powerful and as fast, but Mario’s insane resurrection and hax will give him the win
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
On the serious note, this would actually be pretty close. Sonic is more powerful and as fast, but Mario’s insane resurrection and hax will give him the win
Click to expand...
Mario's resurrections only works if his body is in tact, and he literally cannot hit someone with Immeasurable Speed. Not to mention literally all of his hax is out of character.

I'm considering 2-C and Immeasurable Super Sonic, since that's what Hyper Sonic is, and they used Hyper Sonic.
 
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The_Smashor said:
Mario's resurrections only works if his body is in tact, and he literally cannot hit someone with Immeasurable Speed. Not to mention literally all of his hax is out of character.

I'm considering 2-C and Immeasurable Super Sonic, since that's what Hyper Sonic is, and they used Hyper Sonic.
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Mario can resurrect from being erased with the dark matter lol
 
And it doesn’t really answer the problem. Mario literally cannot hurt Hyper Sonic here. And Hyper Sonic has infinite stamina. He could kill all of Mario’s lives even if it takes time
 
Apologies for the delay, work has been demanding tons of overtime. Anyway, jumping back in:

Archie Sonic vs Wally: Putting my personal feelings about the plot hole macguffin Speed Force aside, it still seems to me that Hyper Sonic wins. The best feat they gave Wally was outrunning the Speed Force, which is Base Rebirth Wally. No Manhattan, Mobius Chair, or Anti-Crisis energy was included for him. That makes him possibly Low 1-C at best. Meanwhile, Hyper Sonic is far above a safely Low 1-C Super Sonic and is constantly getting faster, no matter what. While I'm not familiar with dimensional tiering, especially for DC, the idea that the Speed Force is above everything, including those who made it apparently, makes no sense to me. I'm also not familiar with the chain for Sonic and Archie being far above other immeasurables, but it was stated before that Sonic should be above Wally. Just based on that, I still firmly believe that Archie Sonic should win.

@The_Smashor

I see where you're coming from, but I still believe that Yang vs Tifa is worse. Y v T reeks of deliberate tweaking to make Monty's character win. It seems that with Mario vs Sonic 2, actual effort was used, but they got stuck with several NLFs that they didn't notice. Also, they actually calculated for M v S 2, Tifa received none and Yang's were completely falsified. Bomberman vs Dig-Dug is the worst because with such a gap, BM would simply surround DD with bombs and bounce before he could even blink. But yeah, M v S 2 is still very incorrect and will be treated as such. That being said, with the gap you mentioned, it will get lowered
 
Btw Killer Instinct has some revisions which unless has any scaling on saberwulf its gonna have talbain as the clear winner

Also SF and MK had their revisions too, so it might be needed to take some looks at their matches too
 
Sorvoe551 said:
Apologies for the delay, work has been demanding tons of overtime. Anyway, jumping back in:

Archie Sonic vs Wally: Putting my personal feelings about the plot hole macguffin Speed Force aside, it still seems to me that Hyper Sonic wins. The best feat they gave Wally was outrunning the Speed Force, which is Base Rebirth Wally. No Manhattan, Mobius Chair, or Anti-Crisis energy was included for him. That makes him possibly Low 1-C at best. Meanwhile, Hyper Sonic is far above a safely Low 1-C Super Sonic and is constantly getting faster, no matter what. While I'm not familiar with dimensional tiering, especially for DC, the idea that the Speed Force is above everything, including those who made it apparently, makes no sense to me. I'm also not familiar with the chain for Sonic and Archie being far above other immeasurables, but it was stated before that Sonic should be above Wally. Just based on that, I still firmly believe that Archie Sonic should win.

@The_Smashor

I see where you're coming from, but I still believe that Yang vs Tifa is worse. Y v T reeks of deliberate tweaking to make Monty's character win. It seems that with Mario vs Sonic 2, actual effort was used, but they got stuck with several NLFs that they didn't notice. Also, they actually calculated for M v S 2, Tifa received none and Yang's were completely falsified. Bomberman vs Dig-Dug is the worst because with such a gap, BM would simply surround DD with bombs and bounce before he could even blink. But yeah, M v S 2 is still very incorrect and will be treated as such. That being said, with the gap you mentioned, it will get lowered
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Bomberman might get a revision sometime as
Bomberman 64 isn’t the same Continuity of Classic Bomberman as it’s later revealed that classic bomberman is Lode Runner and that it’s part of the lode runner timeline thus bomberman 64 is a different bomberman than classic bomberman
 
Sorvoe551 said:
Apologies for the delay, work has been demanding tons of overtime. Anyway, jumping back in:

Archie Sonic vs Wally: Putting my personal feelings about the plot hole macguffin Speed Force aside, it still seems to me that Hyper Sonic wins. The best feat they gave Wally was outrunning the Speed Force, which is Base Rebirth Wally. No Manhattan, Mobius Chair, or Anti-Crisis energy was included for him. That makes him possibly Low 1-C at best. Meanwhile, Hyper Sonic is far above a safely Low 1-C Super Sonic and is constantly getting faster, no matter what. While I'm not familiar with dimensional tiering, especially for DC, the idea that the Speed Force is above everything, including those who made it apparently, makes no sense to me. I'm also not familiar with the chain for Sonic and Archie being far above other immeasurables, but it was stated before that Sonic should be above Wally. Just based on that, I still firmly believe that Archie Sonic should win.

@The_Smashor

I see where you're coming from, but I still believe that Yang vs Tifa is worse. Y v T reeks of deliberate tweaking to make Monty's character win. It seems that with Mario vs Sonic 2, actual effort was used, but they got stuck with several NLFs that they didn't notice. Also, they actually calculated for M v S 2, Tifa received none and Yang's were completely falsified. Bomberman vs Dig-Dug is the worst because with such a gap, BM would simply surround DD with bombs and bounce before he could even blink. But yeah, M v S 2 is still very incorrect and will be treated as such. That being said, with the gap you mentioned, it will get lowered
Click to expand...
About Wally vs Archie, I don’t see how outrunning speed force doesn’t put Wally higher. Speedforce does provide speed for all beings that don’t transcend it, so Superman does immeasurable, it speed force, Barry goes immeasurable, it’s speed force. Wally outran it all. Plus, he has some basic upscaling too, like how he appeared invisible to his past self. And hax wise, Wally has an edge too. Even if you argue sonic can restore stolen speed passively, which I don’t see a way for him to do, Wally can, just as death battle mentioned, constantly leech of Sonic’s speed with it. With phasing, Wally can remain absolutely untouchable and invisible to Sonic and attack whenever he likes. Plus, unlike the games, Sonic’s super forms do clearly have a limit. Actually, going Ultra would be a bad move for sonic as that form runs out real fast, and as soon as Sonic goes base, he’s dead. Time travel also is really useful. Wally has a) shown to be unaffected by his time travel, while knuckles have almost erases himself with it, b)can see the future briefly while time traveling, c) plainly has more experience with it. Not to mention that speed force is a much better bfr than the zone of nothingness, as Wally could just phase from it. Sonic’s best hax options come from chaos control which Wally can phase through (lol no it’s not physical. Just that Wally has phased through anti monitor’s shit). And Wally’s has options are far more straightforward, like phasing through sonic and making him explode. Long story short, Wally just has better control over the battle, allowing him to win.
 
In a fight where both characters have immeasurable speed I think a time limit's pretty irrelevant unless Wally traveled foreword through time (Something he'd have no reason to try to do)
 
The_Smashor said:
In a fight where both characters have immeasurable speed I think a time limit's pretty irrelevant unless Wally traveled foreword through time (Something he'd have no reason to try to do)
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It’s not a time limit, but rather an energy limit. Like how Ultra Maurice ran out of energy after banishing Ixis.
 
I feel like you should read this page, a lot of the things you said go against it (not saying Sonic wins)
vsbattles.fandom.com

Chaos Energy (Archie Comics)

Chaos Energy is an unstable, yet incredibly powerful extra-dimensional energy that encompasses the cosmology in the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series and its spin-offs published by Archie Comics. This energy is wielded by many inhabitants of Mobius and worlds beyond, either through a natural link...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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Theuser789 said:
I feel like you should read this page, a lot of the things you said go against it (not saying Sonic wins)
vsbattles.fandom.com

Chaos Energy (Archie Comics)

Chaos Energy is an unstable, yet incredibly powerful extra-dimensional energy that encompasses the cosmology in the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series and its spin-offs published by Archie Comics. This energy is wielded by many inhabitants of Mobius and worlds beyond, either through a natural link...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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Could you please expand on what you said?
 
Theuser789 said:
Better for you to just read the page and see everything Archie has first
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Oh, and speaking of time travel. Pardon me if I’m wrong, but would acasualty save Sonic if Wally decides to kill him in the future? If Wally were to run to the past and kill sonic there, acasualty would save him, but if he goes to the future, won’t sonic just end up killed by Wally after the form runs out for him? Not like it’s in character for Wally to do that either way, just interested if the chaos force could protect Maurice from that.
 
Because in type 4 Sonic simply follows different casuality rules, the entire reason he even has it in the first place is because the SGW destroyed past, present, and future

Acausality (Type 4): Beings present throughout all of time, such as Solaris, have been shown to be incapable of affecting those with a Super State within the past or the future despite it being part of their very nature. Likewise, Super Sonic and Super Armor Mega Man were unaffected by the Super Genesis Wave erasing and rewriting the past, present, and future across the multiverse.
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Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others
Click to expand...
 
Theuser789 said:
Because in type 4 Sonic simply follows different casuality rules, the entire reason he even has it in the first place is because the SGW destroyed past, present, and future
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The whole timeline being rewrited and Wally just skipping a few minutes for himself are absolutely different. I don’t see how acasualty covers that, as Wally’s time fuckery affects only himself, not sonic. Precognition, on the other hand, would work, but sonic would need to try to stop Wally himself then
 
Wally skippin a few minutes would be useless because Super Sonic won't be affected by it in the end

Remember Sonic survived his future being nuked, so time travel to affect his future self would also do nothing
 
Theuser789 said:
Wally skippin a few minutes would be useless because Super Sonic won't be affected by it in the end

Remember Sonic survived his future being nuked, so time travel to affect his future self would also do nothing
Click to expand...
The reason sonic didn’t just die out by the genesis wave is cause he (somewhat) undid it. For Sonic, Wally wouldn’t be affecting his future self, but his current self. Again, the reason acasualty would do nothing here is cause Wally isn’t using time powers to affect sonic, he’s affecting himself. Acasualty would work if Wally went back in time to kill sonic there.
 
Mate, you don't understand how acasuality works, first the SGW was already done, which is why Sonic currently has his resistances, secondly going to the future to affect his future self is the same as going to the past and affecting his past self, they both affect Sonic the same way, you seem to think acausuality type 1 is the only type that exists, type 4 means he follows completely different laws of cause and effect, and thus affecting any time period wouldn't affect him, he would never fell any effect because he doesn't follow the same laws
 
Theuser789 said:
Mate, you don't understand how acasuality works, first the SGW was already done, which is why Sonic currently has his resistances, secondly going to the future to affect his future self is the same as going to the past and affecting his past self, they both affect Sonic the same way, you seem to think acausuality type 1 is the only type that exists, type 4 means he follows completely different laws of cause and effect, and thus affecting any time period wouldn't affect him, he would never fell any effect because he doesn't follow the same laws
Click to expand...
The difference between affecting past self and affecting future self is pretty big. Going back in time to kill someone would also kill them in the present, which is something that acasualty resists. Going forward to kill a future self would be the same as just killing them in the present, as there is no future to speak of yet.
 
Theuser789 said:
Mate, you don't understand how acasuality works, first the SGW was already done, which is why Sonic currently has his resistances, secondly going to the future to affect his future self is the same as going to the past and affecting his past self, they both affect Sonic the same way, you seem to think acausuality type 1 is the only type that exists, type 4 means he follows completely different laws of cause and effect, and thus affecting any time period wouldn't affect him, he would never fell any effect because he doesn't follow the same laws
Click to expand...
And again, SGW is entirely different. Yes, it must’ve killed sonic in the past, but Sonic’s acasualty saved him. It also likely killed sonic in the future. Sonic did not die in the future, because he used chaos control (even though he was interrupted by Eggman, which twisted its effects). This means that if Wally were to go in the future to kill Sonic there, Sonic could theoretically attempt to stop, but it’s not something like “lol I’ve acasualty, rekt n00b”
 
Yeah, you don't understand other types of acausuality other than type 1, based on your posts, currently in the wikia type 2, 4 and 5 make you inmune to any type of time travel, you are treating as if Sonic has type 2 (Sonic only exists in the present) as the basis, when that is not how it works

Make a Q&A about different types of acausuality
 
But isn't only killing someone in the past paradoxing them? Why are we arguing killing them in the future will paradox them?
 
Theuser789 said:
Yeah, you don't understand other types of acausuality other than type 1, based on your posts, currently in the wikia type 2, 4 and 5 make you inmune to any type of time travel, you are treating as if Sonic has type 2 (Sonic only exists in the present) as the basis, when that is not how it works

Make a Q&A about different types of acausuality
Click to expand...
I read it. Type 4 doesn’t mention anything about the situation I discussed. You can’t be immune to time travel. You can be immune to its consequences, which traveling into the future doesn’t have. We clearly aren’t at the same page though, could you please show me where is anything about resisting time travel altogether written?
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
which traveling into the future doesn’t have.
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Actually, since the SGW wiped out Sonic in the future, that means Sonic de-transformed from Super Sonic for there to be a future. Sonic shouldn’t have been able to do Chaos Control (that breaks the multiverse and the SGW’s effects), if there was a future that the SGW killed him in.
 
I mean, yeah? Sonic works with a different form of casuality, so regular attacks won't kill him, again, make the Q&A since you don't trust me
 
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