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DCEU speed revision

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Here are some of the less frequently asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are not enough knowledgeable members available:

Ryukama

SomebodyData

Darkanine

Reppuzan

Dragonmasterxyz

Celestial Pegasus

Dark649

Soldier Blue

Monarch Laciel

Kaltias

Assaltwaffle

Saikou The Lewd King

Kepekley23

Antoniofer

Gemmysaur

PaChi2

Ultima Reality

DarkDragonMedeus

AKM Sama

Dargoo Faust

MrKingOfNegativity

Theglassman12

Wokistan
 
Do we really need this? Basically, all the members here accepted the proposal. LordGriffin and Spino also accepted
 
I believe it's okay heal vision being Light Speed, but the Relativistic+ result is Outlier, also Wonder Woman didn't even reacted to it, she got hit by that
 
Relativistic+ is not an outlier, there is no reason to consider this. Watch the video in slow motion,shet blocks the HV
 
Why there is no reason to consider this ? The verse is consistent with Massively Hypersonic+ feats done by the Top Tiers of the verse like Superman and Wonder Woman, with Supes and Flash being Sub Rel

A Relativistic+ feat done by WW who's far weaker than JL Supes and far slower than the Flash is an outlier
 
I cannot believe the standards for Speed Upgrades have become so low. As I have recurrently and repeatedly explained, Heat Vision isn't Lightspeed. It does not even remotely fulfill the requirements for being lightspeed, nor is it even remotely consistent with the rest of the assorted feats, which are Massively Hypersonic+ on the High End already.

Let's start with the obvious:

1) "The Guidebook says it is a beam of light"

So. What?

Seriously, what does that - by itself - prove? Absolutely nothing. 99% of energy beams in fiction are described as beams of light, or lasers. Heat Vision being described as either or both doesn't prove it is lightspeed much less than Star Wars Blasters being called Lasers prove they are lightspeed (They only are such via explicit statements of their speed down to the number)

2) "It reflects off surfaces"

So. What?

Again, seriously, this isn't nearly sufficient proof for it to be Lightspeed. Most versions of Superman's Heat Vision reflect off glass and other surfaces, and that doesn't necessarily make it lightspeed, specially when it iisn't consistent with the rest of the feats.

People here are just leaping into conclusions so they can calculate every instance of Heat Vision dodging as either Relativistic or FTL, which is obviously wrong and shouldn't happen. It is a colossal outlier for the scale of the verse and the justifications aren't even valid to begin with.
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
Why there is no reason to consider this ? The verse is consistent with Massively Hypersonic+ feats done by the Top Tiers of the verse like Superman and Wonder Woman, with Supes and Flash being Sub Rel

A Relativistic+ feat done by WW who's far weaker than JL Supes and far slower than the Flash is an outlier
Click to expand...
Almost every MHS+ feat in the DCEU was performed very casually. I mean, Superman's very first flight was calculated as Mach 3739.

It's not like they're almost dying to perform the MHS+ feats, so there's no reason to consider relativistic+ as an outlier
 
Also, 90% of the DCEU's Speed Feats are barely Supersonic to Low Hypersonic, particularly in the Justice League and Wonder Woman movies, with only a handful of Massively Hypersonic and Massively Hypersonic+ feats, but apparently unreliable umbrella vague statements from a secondary source is enough to upgrade the whole verse to lightspeed based on shaky calcs smh
 
What you said does not even make sense.

The verse is consistent with Massively Hypersonic+ feats done by the Top Tiers of the verse like Superman and Wonder Woma

The greatest Superman's feat was when he learned to fly, casually. Wonder Woman has no feats scaled to his profile yet, she scales to Superman. The verse is not consistent with Massively Hypersonic+. There are only two Massively Hypersonic+ feats, and 2 Sub-Relativistic+ feats done casually by Cyborg and Wonder Woman and 1 Relativistic with Relativistc+ reactions done by Wonder Woman fighting with Doomsday

A Relativistic+ feat done by WW who's far weaker than JL Supes and far slower than the Flash is an outlier

This is ridiculous, does not even make sense. Higher characters need not necessarily have feats above an inferior, they just scale. Superman subjugated everyone with his normal speed and saw everyone in slow motion with his true speed, as like Flash
 
LordNephalem said:
Almost every MHS+ feat in the DCEU was performed very casually. I mean, Superman's very first flight was calculated as Mach 3739.

It's not like they're almost dying to perform the MHS+ feats, so there's no reason to consider relativistic+ as an outlier
Click to expand...
Superman's First Flight calc is factually incorrect. There's a visible scene transition cut between Superman taking flight on the artic and Superman flying over Africa, we have no idea how long it really took.

The best legit MHS+ feats are Superman going from the Indian Ocean to Metropolis in about two minutes or so, and Superman tackling Zod into space and back.
 
It is not worth discussing the validity of the heat vision here. It has already been accepted by several different members and is being used in profiles. No matter what you think of the calculation, it's just not worth anything. Two members of the calculation group accepted and even accepted the speed of light for the HV
 
It is incorrect, and should be removed from the profiles. It doesn't matter if they accepted it, they are factually wrong in accepting it as I explained. Heat Vision shouldn't be considered Lightspeed.
 
The Heat Vision should be accepted as LightSpeed. Most of yours arguments are vague using examples that you think are common in fiction and applying here, whereas Spino and the other members gave much better arguments than yours.
 
No, they are valid. "Beam of Red Light" isn't proof of lightspeed, seriously. How can you think it is? It's the most basic umbrella-statement there is and trying to pass it off as legit is ridiculous. I already debunked the two arguments used.
 
The funny thing is that you think we use the Guide's argument mentioning HV as light being the ONLY argument to consider HV as LightSpeed, just proving that it ignores the rest and uses that argument as something absolute. Your entire argument is based on "So. What?" and giving ridiculous examples thinking they are valid here
 
M3X said:
What you said does not even make sense.

The verse is consistent with Massively Hypersonic+ feats done by the Top Tiers of the verse like Superman and Wonder Woma

The greatest Superman's feat was when he learned to fly, casually. Wonder Woman has no feats scaled to his profile yet, she scales to Superman. The verse is not consistent with Massively Hypersonic+. There are only two Massively Hypersonic+ feats, and 2 Sub-Relativistic+ feats done casually by Cyborg and Wonder Woman and 1 Relativistic with Relativistc+ reactions done by Wonder Woman fighting with Doomsday

A Relativistic+ feat done by WW who's far weaker than JL Supes and far slower than the Flash is an outlier

This is ridiculous, does not even make sense. Higher characters need not necessarily have feats above an inferior, they just scale. Superman subjugated everyone with his normal speed and saw everyone in slow motion with his true speed, as like Flash
Click to expand...
You can't use feats that are not even accepted yet to back up the Relativistic+ one

If a Top Tier is surpassed in speed by a Low/Mid tier with a feat that FAR outclasses the Top Tiers, they are Outlier by the definition of Outlier

And Supes First Flight calc is wrong apparently, so yeah

Also, the Heat Vision being Light Speed is also not being accepted because it makes inflated results that contradicts the verse consistent speed feats, you know, in any verse if this is the case, even if there is enough proof of Light Speed, it's not going to be accepted, it was the case with FFXV, for example
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I cannot believe the standards for Speed Upgrades have become so low. As I have recurrently and repeatedly explained, Heat Vision isn't Lightspeed. It does not even remotely fulfill the requirements for being lightspeed, nor is it even remotely consistent with the rest of the assorted feats, which are Massively Hypersonic+ on the High End already.
Let's start with the obvious:

1) "The Guidebook says it is a beam of light"

So. What?

Seriously, what does that - by itself - prove? Absolutely nothing. 99% of energy beams in fiction are described as beams of light, or lasers. Heat Vision being described as either or both doesn't prove it is lightspeed much less than Star Wars Blasters being called Lasers prove they are lightspeed (They only are such via explicit statements of their speed down to the number)

2) "It reflects off surfaces"

So. What?

Again, seriously, this isn't nearly sufficient proof for it to be Lightspeed. Most versions of Superman's Heat Vision reflect off glass and other surfaces, and that doesn't necessarily make it lightspeed, specially when it iisn't consistent with the rest of the feats.

People here are just leaping into conclusions so they can calculate every instance of Heat Vision dodging as either Relativistic or FTL, which is obviously wrong and shouldn't happen. It is a colossal outlier for the scale of the verse and the justifications aren't even valid to begin with.
Click to expand...
Well good to know at least someone here has some logic
 
You can't use feats that are not even accepted yet to back up the Relativistic+ one

What are you talking about? All calculations used in this thread were approved by members of the calculation group, you were present and saw.

If a Top Tier is surpassed in speed by a Low/Mid tier with a feat that FAR outclasses the Top Tiers, they are Outlier by the definition of Outlier

Which Top Tier has been surpassed in speed by some Mid Tier or lower? Nobody. The only feats that Superman Post Motherbox has is to defeat the entire justice league. The one from Flash and see them all in slow motion. They were not overcome at all there.

Also, the Heat Vision being Light Speed is also not being accepted because it makes inflated results that contradicts the verse consistent speed feats, you know, in any verse if this is the case, even if there is enough proof of Light Speed, it's not going to be accepted, it was the case with FFXV, for example

This is ridiculous too. You have no opinion of your own? And who told you that these deeds contradict others? The other feats are casually bullet time feats that does not even represent the true speed of the characters
 
What are you talking about? All calculations used in this thread were approved by members of the calculation group, you were present and saw.

The math was approved, yes, but they agreeing with them in this thread is not guarantee that the calcs can already used to back up others, no offence to anyone

Which Top Tier has been surpassed in speed by some Mid Tier or lower? Nobody. The only feats that Superman Post Motherbox has is to defeat the entire justice league. The one from Flash and see them all in slow motion. They were not overcome at all there.

JL Superman only have Sub Rel feats accepted until now and was far surpassed by BVS Wonder Woman calcs presented here, which he stomps, this answer your question ? It's not the only one I can quote here, you know, but I believe you misunderstood me in this point, I'm not talking that in the movie JL Superman got outclassed by a Mid Tier like WW, for example, I'm talking about those calcs, they are feats coming from Mid Tiers, and they far exceeds Top Tiers calculated feats

This is ridiculous too. You have no opinion of your own? And who told you that these deeds contradict others? The other feats are casually bullet time feats that does not even represent the true speed of the characters

Oh, so now your best argument is saying that "this is ridiculous" ? Curious, huh ?

Why do you ask if I have oppinion of my own ? Because I agree with someone ? lol

No one need to tell me, just look at those feats and the ones we already have accepted and used here, they are MHS+ and Sub Rel at best from the top tiers. Here we have Mid Tiers with Rel+ feats, it's an outlier
 
The math was approved, yes, but they agreeing with them in this thread is not guarantee that the calcs can already used to back up others, no offence to anyone

I understood what you meant, but it still goes wrong. They agreed with math, yes, and here, several members agreed to the approval of the calculation. So yes, I can use.

JL Superman only have Sub Rel feats accepted until now and was far surpassed by BVS Wonder Woman calcs presented here, which he stomps, this answer your question ? It's not the only one I can quote here, you know, but I believe you misunderstood me in this point, I'm not talking that in the movie JL Superman got outclassed by a Mid Tier like WW, for example, I'm talking about those calcs, they are feats coming from Mid Tiers, and they far exceeds Top Tiers calculated feats

It has no Sub-Relativistic feat. This justification is due to the fact that he sees everyone in slow motion. It's based on her previous speed, which is Massively Hypersonic+, but now that she's going to be upgraded, that Sub-Relativistic rating no longer exists

No one need to tell me, just look at those feats and the ones we already have accepted and used here, they are MHS+ and Sub Rel at best from the top tiers. Here we have Mid Tiers with Rel+ feats, it's an outlier

Again, there is no feat with Sub-Relativistic result, this is because characters like Wonder Woman are scaled as MHS+. The speed of Superman and Flash only depends on the speed of the rest of the members of the Justice League. If the speed of the members of the JL is MHS+, then the speed of Superman and Flash will be Tiers above. If the speed is Relativistic or Relativistic +, then the speed will be Tiers above
 
Don't really agree with light speed heat vision. Even accounting for cinematic time, it's consistently not really close to light speed. There does seem to be a beam of light initially (we see it here on Batma), but that just seems to be light coming from its charge-up, the actual plasma-like attack (this part) is much slower.
 
I understood what you meant, but it still goes wrong. They agreed with math, yes, and here, several members agreed to the approval of the calculation. So yes, I can use.

As Ant said, you need more input from ADMs that supports this verse, one of them is Matt, the other is Kep, try to send him a message on his wall, he might give his input here

It has no Sub-Relativistic feat. This justification is due to the fact that he sees everyone in slow motion. It's based on her previous speed, which is Massively Hypersonic+, but now that she's going to be upgraded, that Sub-Relativistic rating no longer exists

Then you have a new problem here, if the verse doesn't even have a Sub Rel calculated feat, than the outlier problem is even worse than I thought, also their best feat is mach 3K apparently, and it is a wrong calc, so they are distant form Sub Rel in Feats (It starts at Mach 8K) so they shouldn't even have this Tier Jump. Also these results are coming from the assumption of Heat Vision being Light Speed, which is apparently not going to be accepted either, see:

The page states that:

"If a series is very close to lightspeed or exceeds it in several other calcs and scenarios (such as what is seen in DBZ), there is less of a burden of proof to show that the laser is a true laser."

That's why consistency is important, first we need to get accepted the Light Speed, without it the calcs are wrong, and based on the calcs we already have, none of them is near Light Speed by leagues of difference, they are MHS+ at their very best

And this leads to this:

"Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:

- It is shown at different speeds in the same material"

Since MHS+ characters, by calcs, could react to the heat Vision, this means that it doesn't travel at the speed of light, this is the same case from FFXV, being Light Speed directly contradicts the feats we already have and this goes against one of the criteria established on the wiki's page

If the results were higher end of MHS+ or Sub Rel, I believe it would be accepted. Anyway, I'm done here, I'll let the staff decide now, see ya
 
Well, given Matthew's arguments against this, I suppose that it seems unreliable to use then.
 
Shouldn't we wait until more mod weigh in before the thread is closed?
 
I suppose so.
 
But if they disagree with it as well, then the DCEU probably needs a speed CRT considering that its based on filmsy evidence.
 
@Dante

I will answer only the main point of the argument.

Our problem remains the same, in fact it never existed. Both feats calculated as Massively Hypersonic+ were made casually. A feat was Superman's when he learned to fly, if the calculation is wrong, so we can exclude this feat, since we do not have an exact value. The other feat is even smaller than this, when Superman and Zod fly to a satellite near Earth. For now, we have 2 feats and one of them calculated against 3 calculated feats and 1 that could not be calculated.

The examples you gave do not match what's on the page

  • Page: "If a series is very close to lightspeed or exceeds it in several other calcs and scenarios (such as what is seen in DBZ), there is less of a burden of proof to show that the laser is a true laser."
  • You: That's why consistency is important, first we need to get accepted the Light Speed, without it the calcs are wrong, and based on the calcs we already have, none of them is near Light Speed by leagues of difference, they are MHS+ at their very best
Answer: You've interpreted everything wrong about this page quote. Both Massively Hypersonic+ feats were made casually, as I said. These feats, therefore, do not define the true speed of the characters. The same versions that have the Massively Hypersonic+ feat casually are the versions that have reacted to the heat vision

  • Page: "Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:
- It is shown at different speeds in the same material"

  • You: Since MHS+ characters, by calcs, could react to the heat Vision, this means that it doesn't travel at the speed of light, this is the same case from FFXV, being Light Speed directly contradicts the feats we already have and this goes against one of the criteria established on the wiki's page
Answer: There is not much to be said here. The Massively Hypersonic+ feats do not represent the true speed of the characters, just things casually done as Superman's first flight. So no, the laser does not show different speeds. When the characters react to HV, they are fighting a worldwide threat, so it's totally believable that they can have that speed
 
Hmm. That complicates things then. You should preferably ask more administrators and discussion moderators to give input here.
 
I want to repeat what I said in another thread. According to our Outlier page, only most extreme cases are unusable. Sub-Relativistic isn't that extreme as there are already lots of casual MHS+ feats to back it up.
 
That is true.
 
Not sure (is it the tectonic feat?)

Also I'd recommend someone making an updated calculation of Zeus a d Themyscira instead using JL footage to measure the size (adding the link later)
 
There isn't a set specific standard. It depends from case to case.
 
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