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DCEU speed revision

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So wait, we're leaving it at Relativistic+ instead of Relativistic? If we aren't downgrading them to relativistic, Superman and Flash should be bumped to FTL for being at the very least twice as fast as the rest of the league.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
So wait, we're leaving it at Relativistic+ instead of Relativistic? If we aren't downgrading them to relativistic, Superman and Flash should be bumped to FTL for being at the very least twice as fast as the rest of the league.
Click to expand...
Yeah, idk why people disagree with FTL.
 
Personally, I disagree because I see the slower League Members to be Relativistic instead of relativistic+.

But if my opinion is going to be overriden, then logically Superman and Flash should be faster than light.
 
I also feel that Relativistic+ seems high, but the calcs calculated that so shrug.

Perhaps something like at least Relativistic, possibly Relativistic+?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I cannot believe the standards for Speed Upgrades have become so low. As I have recurrently and repeatedly explained, Heat Vision isn't Lightspeed. It does not even remotely fulfill the requirements for being lightspeed, nor is it even remotely consistent with the rest of the assorted feats, which are Massively Hypersonic+ on the High End already.
Let's start with the obvious:

1) "The Guidebook says it is a beam of light"

So. What?

Seriously, what does that - by itself - prove? Absolutely nothing. 99% of energy beams in fiction are described as beams of light, or lasers. Heat Vision being described as either or both doesn't prove it is lightspeed much less than Star Wars Blasters being called Lasers prove they are lightspeed (They only are such via explicit statements of their speed down to the number)

2) "It reflects off surfaces"

So. What?

Again, seriously, this isn't nearly sufficient proof for it to be Lightspeed. Most versions of Superman's Heat Vision reflect off glass and other surfaces, and that doesn't necessarily make it lightspeed, specially when it iisn't consistent with the rest of the feats.

People here are just leaping into conclusions so they can calculate every instance of Heat Vision dodging as either Relativistic or FTL, which is obviously wrong and shouldn't happen. It is a colossal outlier for the scale of the verse and the justifications aren't even valid to begin with.
Click to expand...
reposting. Haven't seen this succesfully adressed yet.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
Pretty sure Composite Human has subsonic reactions but superhuman combat speeds because they are different stats.

Reactions scale to combat, but not vice versa.
Click to expand...
But in fiction usually characters keep up with each other in combat.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
It is sufficient proof for lightspeed as our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats states that a few criteria have to be met.
Make a CRT if you think our wiki's standards are incorrect.
Click to expand...
Great answer, doesn't address my point in the slightest.

It outright doesn't meet any of the criteria as I have gone over in detail. The problem lies with people such as yourself, or the OP, being far too generous on what can count as Lightspeed. A few random statements of attacks being "light" are not remotely enough for Lightspeed particularly when nothing else in the entire verse matches it.
 
Yes, I agree with that. But that's combat you're talking about, so their combat speeds would scale to their combat speeds, and their reactions speeds would scale to their reaction speeds. Just because they keep up with each other doesn't mean that their combat speed scales up to their reaction speeds.
 
Seriously, what does that - by itself - prove? Absolutely nothing. 99% of energy beams in fiction are described as beams of light, or lasers. Heat Vision being described as either or both doesn't prove it is lightspeed much less than Star Wars Blasters being called Lasers prove they are lightspeed (They only are such via explicit statements of their speed down to the number)

This falls within our criteria of lasers and light attacks. According to this page, one of the criteria is to be called light or laser

  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
So yes, being called light proves something here

Again, seriously, this isn't nearly sufficient proof for it to be Lightspeed. Most versions of Superman's Heat Vision reflect off glass and other surfaces, and that doesn't necessarily make it lightspeed, specially when it iisn't consistent with the rest of the feats.

It does not matter much if in other versions, the Heat Vision does this or that, what matters is what it does and did in DCEU. And again, another criteria is to be reflected in some material other than a magic mirror. The heat vision reflects on the Cyborg shield, which is made of metal.

  • The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
 
Matthew it fits a good amount of the criteria, we have had this exact same conversation in every thread related to the subject. It's honestly tiresome at this point when even fellow staff have agreed with it
 
"This falls within our criteria of lasers and light attacks. According to this page, one of the criteria is to be called light or laser."

No it doesn't. It needs to be described as such by believable, scientific-sources in a context that it makes it clear they are using those terms in the same way it applies to the real world. 99,9% of laser and light beams in fiction aren't Lightspeed.

"It does not matter much if in other versions, the Heat Vision does this or that, what matters is what it does and did in DCEU. And again, another criteria is to be reflected in some material other than a magic mirror. The heat vision reflects on the Cyborg shield, which is made of metal."

It actually matters, and Heat Vision is both described as being heat / light and shown reflecting from glass in virtually every media, but that has never been considered enough proof that it is lightspeed when that vastly outclasses all other feats in the verse. We don't rate DCAU Superman as Relativistic because of this scene.

"It's honestly tiresome at this point when even fellow staff have agreed with it"

Appeal to authority. Just because Spino agrees doesn't mean it's correct.
 
99,9% of laser and light beams in fiction aren't Lightspeed, when they aren't supported by properties of light.

It is said to be made out of light, called to be light by a reliable source (guidebook), and reflects off a non-magical property (Cyborg's shield). If it is only said to be made out of light, only called light and only reflects, then Matthew makes sense. However in this case, 3 criteria is meted.
 
Those first two are actually just one criteria, Spin, not two, not sure how you're dividing them there.

Secondly, it has only reflected off something once and probably because Cybog's armor is made of the same material as the Mother Boxes. It has never reflected off of anything in any other circumstance.

Thirdly, of all of those criteria, being described or referred to as light is by far the least credible of the requirements. It by itself proves nothing.
 
No it doesn't. It needs to be described as such by believable, scientific-sources in a context that it makes it clear they are using those terms in the same way it applies to the real world. 99,9% of laser and light beams in fiction aren't Lightspeed.

This was described by an original movie guide, which here, is accepted as a believable or scientific-sources. I'm sure your word is worth more than that of the guide

It actually matters, and Heat Vision is both described as being heat / light and shown reflecting from glass in virtually every media, but that has never been considered enough proof that it is lightspeed when that vastly outclasses all other feats in the verse. We don't rate DCAU Superman as Relativistic because of this scene.

No, it does not matter. They are completely different media, with producers and ideas different from each other. I do not care why not to rate Superman (DCAU) in such a way, really, irrelevant here as I explained above. One media treats heat vision in a different way, this kind of treatment does not interfere with others. The heat vision of the DCEU can be SoL while the heat vision of the DCAU may not be, they are different franchises, made by different people

It has never reflected off of anything in any other circumstance.

But that has nothing to do. Did you want it to reflet in cement or houses? The only material it was supposed to reflect on, it was Cyborg's shield, and it did.
 
this calculation shouldn't have been applied either. Pew Pew Sci-Fi guns shouldn't be automatically assumed to be lightspeed.

Again, no it shouldn't if it only meets one to two criteria, unlike Heat Vision meeting 3 criteria.
 
@Spin

Glad you agree that the Aquaman calc shouldn't apply. This should be brought up in another thread if it is on the profile. Probably the actual DC thread.
 
@Matthew I understand this but we have shown this to several users (Spino's not the only staff who's seen it btw) and they seem supportive. You meanwhile are parroting the same arguments in an attempt to debunk his current rating

For what it's worth I also disagree with the Aquaman calc (As you've said it fits one criteria and it's a needless lowball anyway since Arhur has kept up with Kryptonians)
 
Matthew, DMUA and others (Including myself) find that the tectonic plate feat is unusable considering luiterally everything about the calc is an assumption
 
Well, I made the calc and those assumptions were pulled out of the ass. I can't actually find the sources for the claims in it at all.
 
@Spino I don't think we can use it for lifting strength if the feat's rejected

That said I'd suggest recalcing DD's feat as well as Zeus'
 
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