DC Hold back revision

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I just want to make sure here. You say that IMP is a specific attack for Flash, and while it is, Zoom could survive one, even if it knocked him out.

 

[Teezar]

I just want to make sure here. You say that IMP is a specific attack for Flash, and while it is, Zoom could survive one, even if it knocked him out.

Shouldn't he also have IMP, tho he hasn't do it before.

 

[The_Impress]

I just want to make sure here. You say that IMP is a specific attack for Flash, and while it is, Zoom could survive one, even if it knocked him out.

Yeah don't you remember all the time supervillain skulls explode once the heroes hit them? Very common comics trope.

Surviving shouldn't be treated as a reliable metric for anything, if you're knocked out cold, that's not scaling, dependent on the ratings most comics WILL not let superheroes kill supervillains on screen.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Yeah don't you remember all the time supervillain skulls explode once the heroes hit them? Very common comics trope.

Surviving shouldn't be treated as a reliable metric for anything, if you're knocked out cold, that's not scaling, dependent on the ratings most comics WILL not let superheroes kill supervillains on screen.

Yes, so maybe Wally didn’t punch Zoom with his all, his peak is 2-C. Zoom did survive the exact attack that was 4-B tho

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

It being a trope doesn’t debunk Zoom surviving an attack specifically calced at 4-B. Again, since without using full speed force Wally’s peak is 2-C, he did hold back nonetheless

 

[Antvasima]

Theyre important, but their pages are also horribly unreliable and in some cases, composites. If someone made a horrible Hawkman page, the page wouldn't be kept just because Hawkman is a iconic(ish) character, I don't see why the same logic would be applied to keep the pages. If it helps, I'm already planning on making a better page for Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, and Brainaic, and I can just go ahead and finish my Solomon Grundy rework this week.

Okay. That is probably fine then.

 

[The_Impress]

Yes, so maybe Wally didn’t punch Zoom with his all, his peak is 2-C.

Derialing topic, Wally get upgraded to 2-C at peak isn't relevant to this thread.

And for MOST relevant plot purposes, Infinite Mass Punch is supposed to be his best shit in most writers' minds, not everyone reads wank cosmic comics

Zoom did survive the exact attack that was 4-B tho

Again, surviving alone isn't relevant for scaling

It being a trope doesn’t debunk Zoom surviving an attack specifically calced at 4-B.

It debunks it being a relevant feat to represent showcase, as the only reason he IS surviving it, is meta bullshit.

This is what PIS is.

Also don't multipost.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I think that we already rate Wally as far higher than 2-C at his peak.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Just a note that I think that we already rate Wally as far higher than 2-C at his peak.

We rate Wally 2-C, possibly 2-A with the entire speed force, his emotional peak is rated at solid 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

If Zoom is 4-B regularly, then it'd create a weird scaling loop where Wally's regular punches are 4-B since he regularly trades blows with Zoom, meaning the IMP is kind of worthless.

 

[Teezar]

And for MOST relevant plot purposes, Infinite Mass Punch is supposed to be his best shit in most writers' minds, not everyone reads wank cosmic comics

I think full power speed force especially in rebirth it's only post-crisis I can say so but rebirth I don't even remember when last I heard of IMP.

Again, surviving alone isn't relevant for scaling

If I survive a solar system attack it isn't relevant in scaling? Good to know.

If Zoom is 4-B regularly, then it'd create a weird scaling loop where Wally's regular punches are 4-B since he regularly trades blows with Zoom, meaning the IMP is kind of worthless.

Wally did say at relativistic speeds he punches at a force equal to a white dwarf star.

But one thing I know when comic book characters(especially marvel and DC maybe also archie)say they wanna move immeasurable or too fast they say they have to move at light speed.

 

[The_Impress]

I think full power speed especially in rebirth it's only post-crisis I can say so but rebirth I don't even remember when last I heard of IMP.

Sucks. Rip. Relevance?

If I survive a solar system attack it isn't relevant in scaling? Good to know.

Are you a fictional DC character? Didn't know.

In general is my point tough to understand or are you purposely simplifying it to shit to further your own agenda? Knowing who it's coming from I genuinely don't know.

Wally did say at relativistic speeds he punches at a force equal to a white dwarf star.

This sounds like the dumbest and the most inconsistent shit ever.

But one thing I know when comic book characters(especially marvel and DC maybe also archie)say they wanna move immeasurable or too fast they say they have to move at light speed.

???

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Wally has also sad at realistic, his kicks are (can be) equal to that of a small moon, but has often purposefully been far weaker in the past. The small moon statement seems far more consistent with not only his, but his colleagues typical showings.

 

[Teezar]

Are you a fictional DC character? Didn't know.

In general is my point tough to understand or are you purposely simplifying it to shit to further your own agenda? Knowing who it's coming from I genuinely don't know.

Totally different reply from what I stated above.

This sounds like the dumbest and the most inconsistent shit ever.

Why not go tell that to comic book writers who make ***** with mass move at light speed.

???

You won't get it so I won't waste my time explaining.

Wally has also sad at realistic, his kicks are (can be) equal to that of a small moon, but has often purposefully been far weaker in the past. The small moon statement seems far more consistent with not only his, but his colleagues typical showings.

Also jenny Quantum(don't really remember her name in final crisis) at light speed could rip the universe open.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best if we focus on the main topics instead.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Also jenny Quantum(don't really remember her name in final crisis) at light speed could rip the universe open.

And Green Lantern Corps members regularly fly from one end of the universe to the other in a couple of hours. These things happen, we just have to pick the ones that are most consistent with each other.

 

[Teezar]

This is exactly how thing's are in most fictional franchise. E.g dragon ball characters move at MFTL+ speeds yet they see light speed dyspo impressive even seth the programmer talked about this. Also in DC we have characters who move MFTL+ feats based on calcs then later in the same comic the character begins to wank just to move at light speed.

 

[The_Impress]

Totally different reply from what I stated above.

Because you replied to MY message by completely misunderstanding it, I am addressing that. Basic stuff.

Why not go tell that to comic book writers who make ***** with mass move at light speed.

Writer*

And I can just not use it because it's inconsistent. Simpler.

You won't get it so I won't waste my time explaining.

Must not be important to begin with then, thanks for wasting my time instead.

Also just gonna say you might wanna improve your tone by this point, mate, and 99% of your arguments are either you misconstruing my words, OR gibberish.

 

[Teezar]

Writer*

Cause dc comics has only 1 writer?

Must not be important to begin with then, thanks for wasting my time instead.

Also just gonna say you might wanna improve your tone by this point, mate, and 99% of your arguments are either you misconstruing my words, OR gibberish.

Anyhow you see it mate.

 

[Antvasima]

Impress, as usual you are probably correct, but you still need to use a more polite tone of writing.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what is left to do here?

 

[The_Impress]

Cause dc comics has only 1 writer.

Is english your first language? Want a clarification, otherwise alot of these misunderstandings don't add up

 

[The_Impress]

Anyway, what is left to do here?

Individual character discussions, and then applying the modified list to the whole verse

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I think we should let individual character discussions be their own threads. I'm currently writing one for GL characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Individual character discussions, and then applying the modified list to the whole verse

Okay. Thanks for the summary.

 

[The_Impress]

I think we should let individual character discussions be their own threads. I'm currently writing one for GL characters.

If this is agreed upon, we can just begin applying the revision

 

[Antvasima]

Can you remind us what you intend to do here with an explanation first please?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Derialing topic, Wally get upgraded to 2-C at peak isn't relevant to this thread.

And for MOST relevant plot purposes, Infinite Mass Punch is supposed to be his best shit in most writers' minds, not everyone reads wank cosmic comics

Again, surviving alone isn't relevant for scaling

It debunks it being a relevant feat to represent showcase, as the only reason he IS surviving it, is meta bullshit.

This is what PIS is.

Also don't multipost.

Wally is low multiversal at peak, so solar system isn’t his peak, so zoom scaling wouldn’t contradict anything. And if your head doesn’t explode or anything, that means you could take, I dunno, 3x less energy and be fine. So how is surviving a specific 4-B attack not scalable is beyond me

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

The actual revision was agreed on yesterday and was (mostly) applied then...

Again Fish the logic makes no sense. If the IMP was a special attack (like it is), it wouldn't scale to his regular punches, which it would if we applied it the way you're suggesting. The writers wouldn't go "oh yeah he's actually casually hitting with the force f a dwarf star, it's just this one time we highlighted it for no reason", it would completely devalue the scene and make no sense.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The actual revision was agreed on yesterday and was (mostly) applied then...

Again Fish the logic makes no sense. If the IMP was a special attack (like it is), it wouldn't scale to his regular punches, which it would if we applied it the way you're suggesting. The writers wouldn't go "oh yeah he's actually casually hitting with the force f a dwarf star, it's just this one time we highlighted it for no reason", it would completely devalue the scene and make no sense.

Yes, it’s stronger than average blows since it one shots RF, but not by a cosmic difference

 

[Hellbeast]

I think we should let individual character discussions be their own threads. I'm currently writing one for GL characters.

I'm planning the same for Ares and Darkseid too

 

[The_Impress]

Can you remind us what you intend to do here with an explanation first please?

Applying the suggested ratings in Amelia's blog to all the characters :V

Wally is low multiversal at peak, so solar system isn’t his peak, so zoom scaling wouldn’t contradict anything.

Low Multiversal isn't a conventional peak, for most comic purposes he is 4-B peak

And if your head doesn’t explode or anything, that means you could take, I dunno, 3x less energy and be fine.

Missing the point.

So how is surviving a specific 4-B attack not scalable is beyond me

Because folks can survive Darkseid's attack with the same amount of damage dealt. Surviving isn't a relevant enough method to scale.

Your argument currently should be proving that this isn't a trend, and characters die often enough with hits that hard, for my claim to be invalid :V

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Applying the suggested ratings in Amelia's blog to all the characters :V

Low Multiversal isn't a conventional peak, for most comic purposes he is 4-B peak

Missing the point.

Because folks can survive Darkseid's attack with the same amount of damage dealt. Surviving isn't a relevant enough method to scale.

Your argument currently should be proving that this isn't a trend, and characters die often enough with hits that hard, for my claim to be invalid :V

Surviving an attack from Darkseid is one thing. Surviving an attack from Darkseid that also blew up a universe is another. That’s, why, for instance, is Spider-Man tanks a causal attack from sentry that destroys a building, he wouldn’t scale to Sentry himself but to the building destroying attack he did

 

[The_Impress]

That’s, why, for instance, is Spider-Man tanks a causal attack from sentry that destroys a building, he wouldn’t scale to Sentry himself but to the building destroying attack he did

This isn't something we do tho :V, a serious Sentry has punched Carnage to yield a tier 7 feat, and a pissed off Hulk has thrown a rock at Sandman to yield a High 8-C+ feat, we don't consider that. The only remotely close example you can give, is the Luke Cage nuke calc, which we list as his ABSOLUTE PEAK unscaleable to his core physicals (and likely to be removed), and the Mettle feat, which is a shockwave so it'll be REALLY sus that's 4-B.

Because, this is cherrypicking yields to hide the laughable outliers, if we're going this route, show me the scan of him tanking the Infinite Mass Punch, I can GUARANTEE there are MORE ways to calc that feat in ways that don't reach 4-B.

Oh also, can you real quick prove that Zoom is consistently tanking these 4-Bs hits and it's not a one-off thing?

 

[Antvasima]

Applying the suggested ratings in Amelia's blog to all the characters :V

@Firestorm808

Can you try to verify that all of it seems acceptable please? It is very important.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I noticed that Wonder Woman (Post-Crisis) is currently scaled from her later Flashpoint incarnation, so that, and any similar retroactive cross-scaling, needs to be removed.

 

[Hellbeast]

Also, I noticed that Wonder Woman (Post-Crisis) is currently scaled from her later Flashpoint incarnation, so that, and any similar retroactive cross-scaling, needs to be removed.

That's canon tho and I believe is where the 5-A for Flash comes from

 

[Antvasima]

Well, reality was rewritten, and usually when that happens, the power levels of the characters change drastically.

 

[Eficiente]

Minor, but I believe the pages should say "5-A normally, 4-B at peak" rather than just "5-A, 4-B at peak".