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DC Heralds rescaling thread

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Emirp sumitpo said:
Didn't you already have several suggestions for his tiering? Would you mind placing them here?
Click to expand...

Sure. Lemme copy paste it:

Attack Potency: Varies (Conner has a strong no-Kill rule and holds back.[65][20][18] In addition, his powers require his force of will[37]) Usually Moon level (Was designed to be as close to Pre-Death Superman as possible[4], his Tactile Telekinesis derived stats are stated to be "Superman-Level[66]" Hurts Martian Manhunter possessed by Despero, and again[67], hurts Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner through his shield[68], Stronger than Cassie Sandsmark Wonder Girl, as per Harm[69], Stalemates M'onel[70] who was stated to be stronger than Pre-Death Superman[71][72], hurts Knockout[73][18][74][35], who is stronger than him[73][75] [18]), Low Multiverse level at peak (Fought and hurt Black Zero[76] who could overpower Pre-Crisis Krypto[77] and Superboy[76]. Rips down a door built to restrain Doomsday[78]) || Varies (Has gained Kryptonian powers and is stronger than before[79][80][81][45][39][40][66][41][39][82] Superboy holds back[83][84][56],) Usually Galaxy level ( Oneshots full Kryptonians and overpowers and defeats a bloodlusted Alura In-Zee, Supergirl's mother[85], Fought Kingdom Come Superman, though he eventually loses after being convinced to lose[86], Had the advantage on Match[54] who defeated Ultraman[50], Drew blood from Superman[87] Fought Gog, who hurt Superman, and even hurt him[88], staggered Brainac with his blows[89]) Low Multiverse level at his peak (Stalemates Orion[90] Hurts a young Darkseid[91], In the second fight with Superboy-Prime A motivated Conner draws blood from him and trades blows with him[92]. In their third battle, Conner fights near-equally with Prime[93]. A brainwashed Conner broke out of the hold of and overpowered Power Girl and Supergirl.[94], Blows up Black Lantern Kal-L[82] Conner is stated to be able to “do everything Superman can do”[39])

Speed: MFTL+ (Dodged an attack from an Imperiex Probe[95], Kept pace with Impulse[96]) || MFTL+: (Kept up with Supergirl[97], Kept up with Bart Allen in a race[98], could react to Kingdom Come Flash[46], Claims to be as fast as Impulse[99] Likely is as fast as any Kryptonian since he can "do everything Superman can do")

Lifting Strength: varies, up to Class G (lifted a large palace[100]) | Varies up to Stellar at peak (Scales to other kryptonians, who are comparable to Lobo)

Striking Strength: Varies Usually Moon level, Low Multiverse level at peak (could hurt M'onel, Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner, Knockout and Martian Manhunter with his strikes, at his peak he can hurt Black Zero) | Varies, usually Galaxy level, Low Multiverse level at Peak (Can oneshot Kryptonians, fought Kingdom Come Superman and hurt him, drew blood from a holding back Superman, hurt Brainiac with his strikes. At his peak, he can fight and hurt Superboy-Prime, Orion, and Darkseid)

Durability: Varies from Moon level (Can take blows from people in his tier. Aquaman can’t hurt him and had to drown and weaken him later in the same comic to effect him, with Superboy getting right back up[101], Took hits from Match[102], took hits from Despero possessing Martian Manhunter[67], ) Up to Low Multiverse level (Takes a beating from Cyborg Superman directly after witnessing him murder a blimp of people with Cyborg Superman being impressed with his durability[103] takes a beating from Pre-Crisis/Pocket Universe Superboy[104] || Varies from Galaxy level (took hits from Brainiac[89], took hits from Kingdom Come Superman and Kingdom Come Flash[86],) to Low Multiverse level at peak Takes an extended beating from Gog[88] A depressed Conner takes a beating from the Eradicator [105], (A depressed Conner is beaten nearly to death by Superboy-Prime[106][107], but in his rematches,[92] takes his attacks far better.[93], took hits from Black Lantern Kal-L[87][82])
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Sure. Lemme copy paste it:

Attack Potency: Varies (Conner has a strong no-Kill rule and holds back.[65][20][18] In addition, his powers require his force of will[37]) Usually Moon level (Was designed to be as close to Pre-Death Superman as possible[4], his Tactile Telekinesis derived stats are stated to be "Superman-Level[66]" Hurts Martian Manhunter possessed by Despero, and again[67], hurts Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner through his shield[68], Stronger than Cassie Sandsmark Wonder Girl, as per Harm[69], Stalemates M'onel[70] who was stated to be stronger than Pre-Death Superman[71][72], hurts Knockout[73][18][74][35], who is stronger than him[73][75] [18]), Low Multiverse level at peak (Fought and hurt Black Zero[76] who could overpower Pre-Crisis Krypto[77] and Superboy[76]. Rips down a door built to restrain Doomsday[78]) || Varies (Has gained Kryptonian powers and is stronger than before[79][80][81][45][39][40][66][41][39][82] Superboy holds back[83][84][56],) Usually Galaxy level ( Oneshots full Kryptonians and overpowers and defeats a bloodlusted Alura In-Zee, Supergirl's mother[85], Fought Kingdom Come Superman, though he eventually loses after being convinced to lose[86], Had the advantage on Match[54] who defeated Ultraman[50], Drew blood from Superman[87] Fought Gog, who hurt Superman, and even hurt him[88], staggered Brainac with his blows[89]) Low Multiverse level at his peak (Stalemates Orion[90] Hurts a young Darkseid[91], In the second fight with Superboy-Prime A motivated Conner draws blood from him and trades blows with him[92]. In their third battle, Conner fights near-equally with Prime[93]. A brainwashed Conner broke out of the hold of and overpowered Power Girl and Supergirl.[94], Blows up Black Lantern Kal-L[82] Conner is stated to be able to “do everything Superman can do”[39])

Speed: MFTL+ (Dodged an attack from an Imperiex Probe[95], Kept pace with Impulse[96]) || MFTL+: (Kept up with Supergirl[97], Kept up with Bart Allen in a race[98], could react to Kingdom Come Flash[46], Claims to be as fast as Impulse[99] Likely is as fast as any Kryptonian since he can "do everything Superman can do")

Lifting Strength: varies, up to Class G (lifted a large palace[100]) | Varies up to Stellar at peak (Scales to other kryptonians, who are comparable to Lobo)

Striking Strength: Varies Usually Moon level, Low Multiverse level at peak (could hurt M'onel, Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner, Knockout and Martian Manhunter with his strikes, at his peak he can hurt Black Zero) | Varies, usually Galaxy level, Low Multiverse level at Peak (Can oneshot Kryptonians, fought Kingdom Come Superman and hurt him, drew blood from a holding back Superman, hurt Brainiac with his strikes. At his peak, he can fight and hurt Superboy-Prime, Orion, and Darkseid)

Durability: Varies from Moon level (Can take blows from people in his tier. Aquaman can’t hurt him and had to drown and weaken him later in the same comic to effect him, with Superboy getting right back up[101], Took hits from Match[102], took hits from Despero possessing Martian Manhunter[67], ) Up to Low Multiverse level (Takes a beating from Cyborg Superman directly after witnessing him murder a blimp of people with Cyborg Superman being impressed with his durability[103] takes a beating from Pre-Crisis/Pocket Universe Superboy[104] || Varies from Galaxy level (took hits from Brainiac[89], took hits from Kingdom Come Superman and Kingdom Come Flash[86],) to Low Multiverse level at peak Takes an extended beating from Gog[88] A depressed Conner takes a beating from the Eradicator [105], (A depressed Conner is beaten nearly to death by Superboy-Prime[106][107], but in his rematches,[92] takes his attacks far better.[93], took hits from Black Lantern Kal-L[87][82])
Click to expand...
Aside from some minor formatting things, the only complaint I have is that holding back stuff doesn’t belong in the AP section, it goes in either Notes or Standard Tactics.
 
LordTracer said:
Aside from some minor formatting things, the only complaint I have is that holding back stuff doesn’t belong in the AP section, it goes in either Notes or Standard Tactics.
Click to expand...
That's my bad. I'd seen that note in Supergirl and Krypto's and added it to Conner's. I'll put it in notes
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Sure. Lemme copy paste it:

Attack Potency: Varies (Conner has a strong no-Kill rule and holds back.[65][20][18] In addition, his powers require his force of will[37]) Usually Moon level (Was designed to be as close to Pre-Death Superman as possible[4], his Tactile Telekinesis derived stats are stated to be "Superman-Level[66]" Hurts Martian Manhunter possessed by Despero, and again[67], hurts Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner through his shield[68], Stronger than Cassie Sandsmark Wonder Girl, as per Harm[69], Stalemates M'onel[70] who was stated to be stronger than Pre-Death Superman[71][72], hurts Knockout[73][18][74][35], who is stronger than him[73][75] [18]), Low Multiverse level at peak (Fought and hurt Black Zero[76] who could overpower Pre-Crisis Krypto[77] and Superboy[76]. Rips down a door built to restrain Doomsday[78]) || Varies (Has gained Kryptonian powers and is stronger than before[79][80][81][45][39][40][66][41][39][82] Superboy holds back[83][84][56],) Usually Galaxy level ( Oneshots full Kryptonians and overpowers and defeats a bloodlusted Alura In-Zee, Supergirl's mother[85], Fought Kingdom Come Superman, though he eventually loses after being convinced to lose[86], Had the advantage on Match[54] who defeated Ultraman[50], Drew blood from Superman[87] Fought Gog, who hurt Superman, and even hurt him[88], staggered Brainac with his blows[89]) Low Multiverse level at his peak (Stalemates Orion[90] Hurts a young Darkseid[91], In the second fight with Superboy-Prime A motivated Conner draws blood from him and trades blows with him[92]. In their third battle, Conner fights near-equally with Prime[93]. A brainwashed Conner broke out of the hold of and overpowered Power Girl and Supergirl.[94], Blows up Black Lantern Kal-L[82] Conner is stated to be able to “do everything Superman can do”[39])

Speed: MFTL+ (Dodged an attack from an Imperiex Probe[95], Kept pace with Impulse[96]) || MFTL+: (Kept up with Supergirl[97], Kept up with Bart Allen in a race[98], could react to Kingdom Come Flash[46], Claims to be as fast as Impulse[99] Likely is as fast as any Kryptonian since he can "do everything Superman can do")

Lifting Strength: varies, up to Class G (lifted a large palace[100]) | Varies up to Stellar at peak (Scales to other kryptonians, who are comparable to Lobo)

Striking Strength: Varies Usually Moon level, Low Multiverse level at peak (could hurt M'onel, Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner, Knockout and Martian Manhunter with his strikes, at his peak he can hurt Black Zero) | Varies, usually Galaxy level, Low Multiverse level at Peak (Can oneshot Kryptonians, fought Kingdom Come Superman and hurt him, drew blood from a holding back Superman, hurt Brainiac with his strikes. At his peak, he can fight and hurt Superboy-Prime, Orion, and Darkseid)

Durability: Varies from Moon level (Can take blows from people in his tier. Aquaman can’t hurt him and had to drown and weaken him later in the same comic to effect him, with Superboy getting right back up[101], Took hits from Match[102], took hits from Despero possessing Martian Manhunter[67], ) Up to Low Multiverse level (Takes a beating from Cyborg Superman directly after witnessing him murder a blimp of people with Cyborg Superman being impressed with his durability[103] takes a beating from Pre-Crisis/Pocket Universe Superboy[104] || Varies from Galaxy level (took hits from Brainiac[89], took hits from Kingdom Come Superman and Kingdom Come Flash[86],) to Low Multiverse level at peak Takes an extended beating from Gog[88] A depressed Conner takes a beating from the Eradicator [105], (A depressed Conner is beaten nearly to death by Superboy-Prime[106][107], but in his rematches,[92] takes his attacks far better.[93], took hits from Black Lantern Kal-L[87][82])
Click to expand...
Few notes

  • Considering we're likely putting MMH at 2-C, the MMH justification should probably be 2-C.
  • I'd say remove the KC Flash parts, he doesn't have a profile nor any scaling on the wiki rn. Not like Superboy needs him anyway.
  • Not entirely sure about the KC Superman and Gog parts yet as I'm kinda unsure on whether he scales to 3-C or 2-C.
  • I feel it should be mentioned Connor blew up BL Kal L with his TK powers.
  • Also him being able to do everything Superman can is a little sus but I'll look into that a bit more later on.

Good job.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Few notes

  • Considering we're likely putting MMH at 2-C, the MMH justification should probably be 2-C.
  • I'd say remove the KC Flash parts, he doesn't have a profile nor any scaling on the wiki rn. Not like Superboy needs him anyway.
  • Not entirely sure about the KC Superman and Gog parts yet as I'm kinda unsure on whether he scales to 3-C or 2-C.
  • I feel it should be mentioned Connor blew up BL Kal L with his TK powers.
  • Also him being able to do everything Superman can is a little sus but I'll look into that a bit more later on.

Good job.
Click to expand...

Working on the rest, but the idea of Conner being able to do Everything Superman can comes from Adventure Comics vol 2 #7.

Earlier in the same comic, he stated he had developed almost all full Kryptonian abilities, save Ice Breath.

Then he uses Ice Breath for the first time, and Cass refers to him as "a guy who can do everything Superman can"

This is supported by the Secret Files 2005 saying he has powers nearly identical to Superman.
 
 
Antvasima said:
Is there any progress here? Lots of characters still need to be updated from tier 4:
Click to expand...
This profiles don't need to be updated, either because they are already updated or that this are mostly Post-Flashpoint characters which for what i remember where not include since the upgraded was only reserved to Post-Crisis and Rebirth characters.
 
As far as I can tell, the only characters left to be updated are those that weren’t given new justifications in the OP.

At this point, for the remaining characters, I would say to just change the tiers according to their current justifications. Otherwise, the thread will just be stuck here.
 
LordTracer said:
As far as I can tell, the only characters left to be updated are those that weren’t given new justifications in the OP.

At this point, for the remaining characters, I would say to just change the tiers according to their current justifications. Otherwise, the thread will just be stuck here.
Click to expand...
And which ones are they?
 
LordTracer said:
As far as I can tell, the only characters left to be updated are those that weren’t given new justifications in the OP.

At this point, for the remaining characters, I would say to just change the tiers according to their current justifications. Otherwise, the thread will just be stuck here.
Click to expand...
I second this, it would take an ETERNITY to come up with new justifications for all the 4-B (and some of the 5-A) characters, granted it’ll get done eventually but this thread has lost some steam and momentum.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
And which ones are they?
Click to expand...
These are all the remaining 4-B characters that aren’t from Post-Flashpoint.
 
I'm working Martian Manhunter rn. I wanna get to at least the core characters for scaling before moving on.

Also, Tracer, you done with Wonder Woman yet? iirc, I think we approved of her already, you can place hers now.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Also, Tracer, you done with Wonder Woman yet?
Click to expand...
Her first key is more-or-less done, and her Post-Clayface key can just be scaled to Supergirl and Power Girl (both of whom already have good justifications and just need their tiers changed) until I finish my proper revision for Wonder Woman.
 
Thanks, I'll update MMH in a bit.

Can someone unlock this page btw? @Maverick_Zero_X

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Atom (Post-Flashpoint)

Nathaniel Adam was an airforce captain before he became part of Doctor Heinrich Megala's experiment to prove the M-Theory correct and discover something amazing. However, the experiment was a failure and Nathaniel Adam was considered dead for a brief period of time. In reality, Nathaniel had...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Thanks, I'll update MMH in a bit.

Can someone unlock this page btw? @Maverick_Zero_X

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Atom (Post-Flashpoint)

Nathaniel Adam was an airforce captain before he became part of Doctor Heinrich Megala's experiment to prove the M-Theory correct and discover something amazing. However, the experiment was a failure and Nathaniel Adam was considered dead for a brief period of time. In reality, Nathaniel had...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Unlocked.
 
Is all that needs to be done just replacing the tiers because the justifications are good enough? If so, I could handle it in minutes with a script.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Is all that needs to be done just replacing the tiers because the justifications are good enough? If so, I could handle it in minutes with a script.
Click to expand...
Some of the justifications need slight alterations to remove details that are unnecessary now (i.e. Supergirl’s durability justification mentioning her being able to survive an exploding star is useless for a Tier 2 character) or to just fix formatting.

But Bizzaro, Solomon Grundy, Ursa and the Parademon Alien can safely have their 4-B ratings changed to 2-C.
 
Also in the Superboy thread, 5-C should be updated to Low 5-B as Pre death Superman scales to Superboy, and Captain Atom in turn scales to Pre death Superman. Could someone unlock these two?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman (Post-Crisis)

Superman is one of the most powerful beings on Earth and its greatest hero. Born to the illustrious House of El, Kal-El is one of the last surviving members of his race as his planet was destroyed not long after his birth. He was found and raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent in Smallville...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Atom (Post-Crisis)

During the Vietnam War, Nathaniel Christopher Adam served in the United States Air Force. Under the watchful eye of Col. Wade Eiling, he was framed for a crime he didn't commit and condemned to death in 1968. He was offered the option to engage in a military experiment with a slim chance of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
In terms of character importance, the only ones left are KC Superman, Supergirl, Powergirl, MMH and Aquaman

Aquaman is probably gonna be like, Low 5-B iirc lmfao
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Also in the Superboy thread, 5-C should be updated to Low 5-B as Pre death Superman scales to Superboy, and Captain Atom in turn scales to Pre death Superman. Could someone unlock these two?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman (Post-Crisis)

Superman is one of the most powerful beings on Earth and its greatest hero. Born to the illustrious House of El, Kal-El is one of the last surviving members of his race as his planet was destroyed not long after his birth. He was found and raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent in Smallville...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Atom (Post-Crisis)

During the Vietnam War, Nathaniel Christopher Adam served in the United States Air Force. Under the watchful eye of Col. Wade Eiling, he was framed for a crime he didn't commit and condemned to death in 1968. He was offered the option to engage in a military experiment with a slim chance of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Opened.

Edit: Also unlocked Supergirl.
 
So I'm done with MMH's page "update", should I place that here for eval or just make another thread?
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
So I'm done with MMH's page "update", should I place that here for eval or just make another thread?
Click to expand...
I'd like to see the Eval, especially with how weird his scaling is (he's occasionally treated as in the Same Tier as Superman and other times below them, to the point in OWAW, he wasn't even top 4 material)
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
I'd like to see the Eval, especially with how weird his scaling is (he's occasionally treated as in the Same Tier as Superman and other times below them, to the point in OWAW, he wasn't even top 4 material)
Click to expand...
MMH kinda has a lot of anti-feats that kinda prevents from being around Superman's level proper

TimeTrapperFanBoy said:
Red King (JLA: Classified #36).
Click to expand...
Red King was off guard and MMH never really posed a threat to him for the rest of the arc.

TimeTrapperFanBoy said:
Superboy Prime (Infinite Crisis #6)
Click to expand...
SPB was kinda just messing around for a bit and likely wasn't even that serious, not to mention in that same sequence he stomps Black Adam, who's superior to MMH easily. And later on, we see SBP stomp MMH.

I think the SBP could be added, but probably not Red King. I don't think he's infinitely weaker than either but not on the same level either.
 
vsbattles.com

Martian Manhunter profile update

This isn't a proper profile revamp per say, but this is just updating several aspects of Martian Manhunter's current profile. Credit goes to Amelia Lonelyheart for a majority of the profile. Sandbox here Things that were updated: Abilities section is fleshed out more LS is redone with a...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Can ya'll hop onto here real quick?
 
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