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Flash should scale to whatever the rest of them do since his charge took Aquaman out of the fight.
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DC Extended Universe Revisions
- Thread starter Hellbeast
- Start date
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I'm neutral about whether Superman was at full power fighting Doomsday (scaling indicates he's not however), but I do think he's stronger in BvS than MoS plus disregarding that he's definitely in worse shape with the World Engine than versus Doomsday imo.
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Yes, he is way stronger in BvS.
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Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be weaker after the effects of the Kryptonite? I say that because the World Engine definitely weakened him significantly, but it didn't take him down to the point of getting pummeled by Armored Batman lol. I personally think the Kryptonite weakened him more tbh.
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I'm talking about after the Sun charging
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I know, but his performance against the 7-A Doomsday wasn't really improved Post-Sun Charging. I rationalize this through the possibility that maybe the Sun Charging just undid the ill effects of the nuke, and essentially brought him back to where he was Pre-nuke more or less.
So basically my thought process is: Full power BvS Supes >= MoS Supes > Post-Sun Charge Supes >= Pre-Nuke/Post-Kryptonite >>> Kryptonite Supes
So basically my thought process is: Full power BvS Supes >= MoS Supes > Post-Sun Charge Supes >= Pre-Nuke/Post-Kryptonite >>> Kryptonite Supes
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I disagree, with some details, but I completely agree with the sun point, supes was kinda in a rush, wasn't gonna wait around to recharge.
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Also in agreement that the Sun Charge didn't bring him back at full power. Just made him stronger than before he got nuked.
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This ignores the fact that base DD >= Zod = MoS Supes.
BvS/JL >>> Stepp > Final DD > base DD >= Zod = MoS Supes > WE Supes >>> World Engine >>> High 7-A.
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This is wrong on a lot of things. JL Supes is way above BvS Supes, BvS Supes is relative to base Steppenwolf, the Base DD fought a super weakened Kal.
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Not for the SnyderCut he isn’t. The very blatant implication is that Supes was always way stronger than the rest, the Mother Box was used to reset him back to when he was alive, everyone treats him as the key to winning against Stepp even though they have two people on the level of Doomsday and Barry who can blitz and hit as hard as them.
Supes post nuke wasn’t at his full power and Diana even considers Superman to be more powerful than Doomsday despite witnessing DD overpower post nuke Supes. You have to be purposefully ignoring context and the fact that Superman gets stronger overtime to argue your stance.
Supes post nuke wasn’t at his full power and Diana even considers Superman to be more powerful than Doomsday despite witnessing DD overpower post nuke Supes. You have to be purposefully ignoring context and the fact that Superman gets stronger overtime to argue your stance.
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That isn't the implication though. The implication is that BvS Supes isn't THAT much stronger than Steppenwolf.
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No. Diana says that Stepp is the most powerful being she has ever seen with the possible exception of Supes. She herself did better against DD than Supes, Supes got directly overpowered by DD multiple times, and Superman was previously weakened twice before getting some sun. The fact that he was clearly weaker than DD but she still considers him to potentially be above Stepp means that she didn’t see his full power. It’s either you accept that she hasn’t seen his full power (he wasn’t full power post nuke) or assert the opinion that Diana is a raging moron who lacks basic deduction skills.
The above also ignores all of the other context clues in the movie that support Supes having always been stronger.
The above also ignores all of the other context clues in the movie that support Supes having always been stronger.
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Ok, so POSSIBLE is key word. Diana is a combat genius, she can deduct he wasn't at full power. Also, the Steppenwolf Supes bullied was amped by the Unity, context matters. Like, he goes from going relative with Diana to being above her, Victor, and Arthur combined.
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So you agree that Diana didn’t see his full power and doesn’t know his limits? Because the moment you agree to that, there is nothing that limits Supes to Stepp’s tier when he specifically comes back in a previous state without the possibility to be weakened and instantly bodies the whole League before pulling up to Stepp and planting him in the ground.
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Ok, Steppenwolf was amped. I'm not saying BvS Superman is not in the same tier as base Steppenwolf but not Unity Steppenwolf.
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But he clearly isn’t. Unity Stepp isn’t any stronger than base when you look at their feats. Base gets tackled by Diana when he has no weapon but once he has his axe, he dominates her and she can only land a glancing hit to his calf because of how she is positioned below him on the wall. Unity dominates Diana from the beginning because he already has his axe in hand and Arthur barely even hops in which gets negged anyway with neither doing a thing to him unless he is doing something else. Want to say he is stronger? Sure. He becomes some inconsequential amount stronger which makes no difference as Diana still fights him just like base.
If you agree Supes is already above base Stepp, you agree he is also already above Unity Stepp.
If you agree Supes is already above base Stepp, you agree he is also already above Unity Stepp.
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No I don't. Like, rewatch that fight. He also wasn't dominating Diana in the tunnel.
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Yeah you are.
I have seen the tunnel fight more than enough to know I am correct. Stepp starts in a side room without his axe and has to go for it while Diana tackles him just as he gets a hold of it which is how they get to the tunnel. Cue Stepp constantly pressuring her without her being able to do a thing before he slams her into the wall and jumps to get her but she dodged down and tags his left calf with her sword. She jumps down to the bridge and loses her sword where he is about to slam her before the Crawler starts firing on him and he goes to bop Bats instead. The end of the fight with Diana. He dominated that fight.
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Part of the fight was also off screen, so and their clash wasn't a domination.
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So you are trying to argue a possibility over what we actually see? Bro. We see Diana losing the whole tome besides the very beginning when Stepp didn’t have a weapon and you want to argue the offscreen stuff (which is nigh non existent) didn’t also have her taking an L?
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Has this been confirmed anywhere? If so, then I don't mind the scaling chain you proposed.
In any case, I do agree that Full power Superman is significantly above both Steppenwolf and Doomsday. I never said he wasn't iirc.
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If it is confirmed, that would be nice since Zod is the best DCEU villian.
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Oh he definitely is, by far. Great character, and brilliantly portrayed by Michael Shannon.
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There are no conclusions. The Superman scaling is whack. He should honestly not been as far above the league, especially Diana, as he was.
It should have been fine with comic scaling where he's marginally stronger but JL made it seem as if he's tiers stronger than Diana hence putting into question characters like Doomsday (who people thought was > Superman before JL) and now even Zod.
Superman in MOS was just as physically strong as other Kryptonians who had been on Earth for a few hours while he was soaking in the sun for 33 years.
Basically, how long a Kryptonian has been on Earth doesn't affect their physical strength but mostly other abilities (senses, flight, etc).
So for him to get that much stronger in BvS then JL when he didn't for the past 36 years in this case makes no sense.
There shouldn't be a huge strength gap between MOS, BvS and JL Superman, otherwise MOS Kryptonians even being able to contend physically with Superman makes no sense if time is factor in their strength.
It should have been fine with comic scaling where he's marginally stronger but JL made it seem as if he's tiers stronger than Diana hence putting into question characters like Doomsday (who people thought was > Superman before JL) and now even Zod.
Superman in MOS was just as physically strong as other Kryptonians who had been on Earth for a few hours while he was soaking in the sun for 33 years.
Basically, how long a Kryptonian has been on Earth doesn't affect their physical strength but mostly other abilities (senses, flight, etc).
So for him to get that much stronger in BvS then JL when he didn't for the past 36 years in this case makes no sense.
There shouldn't be a huge strength gap between MOS, BvS and JL Superman, otherwise MOS Kryptonians even being able to contend physically with Superman makes no sense if time is factor in their strength.
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Well, that's not entirely true, I agree there are no conclusions, but Superman didn't test out his powers all too much really in combat, while the other Kryptonians were bred for combat.
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This^. Jor-El even tells Clark that he needs to push his limits to get anywhere which he never did before since he was always hiding and trying to stay low. Just from a few jumps he was even able to learn to fly and was progressively jumping higher and further with each hop skip in the Arctic. Supes even went from getting folded by Faora or Nam-Ek individually to fighting both at the same time and actually managing to fend them off.
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Anyway, did Kieran accept calculations for feats that we can apply?
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Yes, he accepted both the calcs.
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Yes, we are discussing the scaling for the characters
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Has anyone taken a crack at the HV breaking the scout ship calc yet? It’s a pretty good feat and would be better than the WE calc for tiering MoS Level characters since it would be a non weakened version of Supes who can do this.
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Tbf now that I think about it it's a fair point that a Kryptonite weakened Superman could still fight Doomsday
although he could have grown stronger
although he could have grown stronger
Hellbeast
He/Him- 5,074
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- Thread starter
- #277
I dont think he's ever described as amped
He has shiny blue eyes but his performance is about the same and he doesn't have any statements for growing stronger and I don't think the Unity is described as empowering people in the Snyder Cut
Which calc is this?
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Ryan Choi mentions that the ship material can absorb a crazy amount of Kelvin and still remain solid so Clark breaking through the ship with his HV should be an equally crazy amount of energy.
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There is a new page for Darkseid that seems based on the inofficial Snyder cut of the Justice League movie. Should I delete it?
vsbattles.fandom.com
Darkseid (DC Extended Universe)
Darkseid, born as Uxas, is the main antagonist of the DC Extended Universe, serving as an unseen antagonist in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and the overarching antagonist of the 2021 director's cut Zack Snyder's Justice League. Darkseid is an ancient and all-powerful cosmic warlord who...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Well, we were planning on giving him a profile based on the Snyder Cut anyway, but I don't think we've discussed the specifics about his ratings and P&A yet.There is a new page for Darkseid that seems based on the inofficial Snyder cut of the Justice League movie. Should I delete it?
Darkseid (DC Extended Universe)
Darkseid, born as Uxas, is the main antagonist of the DC Extended Universe, serving as an unseen antagonist in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and the overarching antagonist of the 2021 director's cut Zack Snyder's Justice League. Darkseid is an ancient and all-powerful cosmic warlord who...
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