• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DBZ Speed Revisions

Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Alright, so should I make the appropriate changes (rel+ to rel for the few it applies to, linking the FTL calc for base Goku on relevant character pages)?
Click to expand...
I think this is fairly reasonable.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I agree that this might just be some hyperbole from the editors. We do not know if it is even translated from the Japanese edition.
Click to expand...
Well I used the back cover because it is backed up with Goku training from 10x Gravity to 100x gravity, and his power level also increasing 10x exactly. And due to casually blitzing the speedster of the Ginyu Tokusentai, I think him being 10x faster is not inconsistent.
 
It is pretty inconsistent. If everyone was at least 70% SoL, they'd be able to react to Freeza's death beams, albeit with some difficulty. Which they don't.
 
In episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super, Goku does state that the Kaioken doubles your power, speed, and all other abilities.

Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Explained
This was before he pushed it up to x10.
 
That's not what this is about anymore.
 
FanofRPGs said:
I'd say they are all sub-relativistic to sub-relativistic+
Click to expand...
Low end Relativistic should also be fine (superior to Kaio-ken x3 Goku in Saiyana Saga, but still unable to properly react to Death Beams).
 
The calc puts Goku at 0,07% SOL. Then on namek when he faced the Ginue force after his training at 100 G he became 10 times faster (base form). So 0,7% SOL.

Then with Kaioken 20 he became 14 times FTL which means his combat speed is ftl + on namek if he uses kaioken 20. That's as simple as this.

Also we know the kaioken increases all stats even speed with a multiplier. So there's no need to change things, previous calcs were already very well done.
 
Jeune fou said:
Then on namek when he faced the Ginue force after his training at 100 G he became 10 times faster (base form).
Click to expand...
That's being disregarded due to not even being from the manga itself. Instead, we're going off of the actual FTL calc for base post-zenkai Goku, which puts him at pretty much the same speed, anyway. I've also already made the changes.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Jeune fou said:
Then on namek when he faced the Ginue force after his training at 100 G he became 10 times faster (base form).
Click to expand...
That's being disregarded due to not even being from the manga itself. Instead, we're going off of the actual FTL calc for base post-zenkai Goku, which puts him at pretty much the same speed, anyway. I've also already made the changes.
Click to expand...


That IS from the manga: http://www.imagebam.com/image/4c34ae480439046

Just read what volume 8 states: "Son goku arrives on planet Namek, His speed and strenght increased tenfold by training under 100 times Earth's gravity!".

Conclusion:

Saiyan Saga Goku (base form) = 0,07% SOL

Namek Saga Goku vs ginue force on namek (base form) = 0,7% SOL

Namek Saga Goku kaioken 20 = 0,7% SOL X 20 = 14 times FTL = FTL +
 
No, it's not from the manga. It's from the back cover of a volume, we don't even know if it was written by Toriyama or translated directly from Japanese.

Also, using that would technically make Goku's speed lower than just going with the ~1c x20.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
No, it's not from the manga. It's from the back cover of a volume, we don't even know if it was written by Toriyama or translated directly from Japanese.
Also, using that would technically make Goku's speed lower than just going with the ~1c x20.
Click to expand...
That is true. However that would makes sense if Goku's speed was 10 times better. Well I know we're not supposed to use power levels because speed might not evolve proportionally, but Goku's power level against Vegeta on planet Earth (base form) was 8 000.

Against Ginue, his power level (base form) was 90 000 (more than 11 times). And not only the number of the power level more or less matches with the tenfold thing, but in addition to that he trained under a gravity that was precisely 10 times the gravity of king kai's planet. So that would be logical for Goku to be 10 times faster than he was against Vegeta (especially when you consider he needed kaioken 3 to keep up with Vegeta while he could casually blitz Burter who could casually blitz a powered up Vegeta (compared to his saiyan saga self) while in his base form).

All what I said only concerns what happened before the zenkai boost. Goku's speed increased again, but we don't know exactly how much, unless ... (sorry if I come in late ... I must admit I skipped a part of the discussion) did you calculate something based on the zenkai boost?

Also sorry if I come in late but (I must admit I skipped a part of the discussion), did you calculate something based on the zenkai boost?
 
Jeune fou said:
Also sorry if I come in late but (I must admit I skipped a part of the discussion), did you calculate something based on the zenkai boost?
Click to expand...
Should be in the OP. Post-Zenkai Goku is ~1c.
 
About post-Zenkai Goku, base zenkai Goku is about 1c, correct?

So, to sum up this discussion in accordance with this thread, I think the best idea for the speed settings for these guys would be: (this is assuming that the multipliers for Kaioken is explicitly stated, correct?)

So, we will start off with 7% SoL for the beginning of DBZ. However, reacting to a beam 7% at SoL =/= character moving at 7% SoL.

Early Saiyan Saga: At least Sub-Relativsitic

-> Raditz is likely faster than Goku and Piccolo due to blitzing both of them. However, there is no proof that Goku/Piccolo/Raditz outsped the beam; they only reacted to it.


Saiyan Saga (Vegeta's Arrival): At least Sub-Relativistic, Sub-Rlativistic+ (Piccolo, Nappa, Base Goku)

-> Gohan, Krillin, and Tien/Chaotzu have reached Raditz's power levels with Piccolo coming very close to Nappa's PL. Vegeta's speed is likely higher than Nappa due to his power level being greater than Nappa.


Saiyan Saga (Goku & Vegeta): Relativistic

->This would also likely mean that Goku's speed (Kaioken x2, 3, 4) would either double, triple, or quadruple. This means that Goku's speed at Kaioken x3 would end up around being Relativistic range along with Vegeta.


Namek Saga: Relativistic (due to scaling from Saiyan Saga; being higher in PL counts as well)

-> Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, and other characters shown in series scale from this. What are their power levels btw?


Ginyu Force: At least Relativistic (high end) with Relativistic+ (low end)

->Ginyu Force members get the very first speed, with Ginyu himself getting Relativistic+ speed from having power level much higher than his members.


Frieza (form 1): Relativisitic+, likely FTL

->Frieza is shown to have much higher in PL compared to previous characters shown; it is observed that PL increase, speed increase during the progress of the series.


Piccolo (Fusing with Nail): FTL

->Did very well against Frieza's second form, although he got completely outpaced by Frieza's 3rd form.


Frieza (forms 2 and 3): FTL (for 2nd), At least FTL (for 3rd, as well as completely blitzing Nail+Piccolo)

-> When Frieza transformed from his second form to his 3rd form,


Goku (Kaioken x10 and 20): FTL+ (via calculation; if Kaioken x20 doubles speed from Kaioken x10)

-> Wasn't Goku's Kaioken x10 calculated at 12 times SoL or something? Would like a calculation source for this.


Frieza (form 4; 25% to 50% power): FTL+

-> Frieza kept up, if not blitzed Goku in this state. At 50% power, Frieza traded blow for blow with Kaioken x20 Goku.


SSJ Goku: At least FTL+

-> Much faster than before compared to Kaioken x20 Goku. I agree with this stat considering SSJ Goku casually dodged death beams from 50% power Frieza as well as completely blitzing Frieza at this state.


Frieza (100%): At least FTL+

-> Keeping pace with, if not blitzing SSJ Goku. He did significantly slow down at the end of the fight due to exhaustion, however.
 
I think that this seems reasonable. What do you think Azathoth?
 
Since there's exact calculation for post zenkai Goku and KK Goku you should also put exact number for speed if is it not too much,since then people will know exact speed for vs match
 
Crazystarf's list seems fine to me.

But I want to clear up something:

Kaio-Ken (x1, not x2) is the one that doubles stats. Kio-Ken x2 triplicates them.

Many people often get confused about this.
 
Alexcar3000 said:
Crazystarf's list seems fine to me.
But I want to clear up something:

Kaio-Ken (x1, not x2) is the one that doubles stats. Kio-Ken x2 triplicates them.

Many people often get confused about this.
Click to expand...
The regular KK is more like x1.5
 
Alexcar3000 said:
Crazystarf's list seems fine to me.
But I want to clear up something:

Kaio-Ken (x1, not x2) is the one that doubles stats. Kio-Ken x2 triplicates them.

Many people often get confused about this.
Click to expand...
I would like proof for Kaioken x1 increasing Goku's stats by x2 instead of x1.5, from an official source.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels (CTRL+F and type in Kaioken)

This wiki chart describes Kaioken x2's boost as doubling his stats, not tripling it.
 
Crazystarf said:
Alexcar3000 said:
Crazystarf's list seems fine to me.
But I want to clear up something:

Kaio-Ken (x1, not x2) is the one that doubles stats. Kio-Ken x2 triplicates them.

Many people often get confused about this.
Click to expand...
I would like proof for Kaioken x1 increasing Goku's stats by x2 instead of x1.5, from an official source.
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels (CTRL+F and type in Kaioken)

This wiki chart describes Kaioken x2's boost as doubling his stats, not tripling it.
Click to expand...
The chart says "calculated", which I assume means they did the multiplier by themselves.

Kaio-Ken is stated to multiply the user's Ki.

If "normal" Kaio-Ken multiplied the user's Ki by 1.5, and Kaio-Kenx2 multiplied it by 2... by that logic, wouldn't that mean Kaio-Kenx3 multiplies it by 2.5 instead of 3?

I know that Toriyama is not good at math, but the "normal" Kaio-Ken has been stated to be the one that doubles the user's Ki.
 
Kaio-ken is supposed to double Goku's power. If Kaio-ken x3 triples his power, then Kaio-ken x2 should...double his power. It's likely just an oversight and nothing more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ednaxel2
Dragon Ball: Minor Multiplier Fix
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
Omegas03
Weird scaling in Toei profiles.
2 3
Replies
101
Views
6K
KaizerCone
Ednaxel2
Dragon Ball: Updates (Planet Vegeta Re-Calc, DBS Manga Downgrade)
3 4 5
Replies
174
Views
12K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
Tom4t0GG789
DRAGON BALL SPEED UPGRADE :O
2
Replies
66
Views
5K
Tom4t0GG789
Tom4t0GG789
Just_Butchering
Saiyan/Namek Saga Scaling
Replies
20
Views
2K
Just_Butchering
Just_Butchering
Back
Top