DBZ Speed Revisions

[Lina_Shields]

I would just like to comment that Frieza's death beam does not explicitly have to be lightspeed; it can be even faster than that.

The calc that was done for base Goku's speed against Frieza (I believe) was done assuming Freiza's death beams were lightspeed. What if those death beams were faster?

EDIT: Hold on, there was a panel shown in the manga at one point where King Kai stated that Goku was already at Kaio-Ken x10 by the time he fought Freiza at 25% power. I will try to find that panel, but if Goku was already at Kaio-ken x10 against Frieza, this would mean that Freiza's death beam wasn't at 1C, but rather 10+ C instead.

So much searching for pages. Will get back to this tomorrow or something.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What if those death beams were faster?

Then we lose the one FTL DBZ calc we currently have, which is bad.

But there's no need to, because official sources treat it as light, so it is fine at lightspeed, and everyone beyond that is fine at FTL+.or "At least FTL+".

 

[Kavpeny]

The critical issue in question, after browsing through the entirety of this (sizeable) thread is this:

"Does Ki increase also translate to a linear boost of speed?"

We all know Ki output in DB is equivalent to a linear boost for AP, Durability and Striking Strength (possibly even lifting strength).

The point of contention remains: If ki increase causes a linear Speed boost, then the application of multipliers for speed is valid. It is not calc stacking, since the multiplier is not defined via a calc, but through an in-Verse mechanic (of Kaio-ken increasing ki output).

Given the quite obvious speed boost provided by SS (also a ki boosting technique), I am inclined to think that the speed is also boosted (and in all likelihood, linearly).

Two assumptions:

• The Kaio-ken technique also follows the same speed boost principle (not explicitly stated, but a logical deduction nonetheless, given the equivalent premises of Kaio-ken and SS) => Likely true
• The Speed boost is linear => Unknown (there is no way to prove as much)

Holding both of these assumptions to be true, the rest of the pieces fall in place, with the stats remaining more or less unchanged.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So, a KKx50 will be faster than a SSJ?

 

[LordXcano]

IIRC there's a quote saying it multiplies all stats, which I can try to find

 

[Roun12]

IIRC there's a quote saying it multiplies all stats, which I can try to find

Goku states this in episode 39. I posted a screenshot earlier in this thread.

 

[LordXcano]

http://i.imgur.com/OjnR8OO.png

Here's the quote from the manga. Vegeta explicitly states it multiplied Goku's speed.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The one thing I'm wondering is if I should go ahead and upgrade Post-Zenkai Vegeta, Nailcolo, and Frieza's two middle forms to Rel+.

 

[Strmi]

So, a KKx50 will be faster than a SSJ?

No,it will be equal

 

[Jeune_fou]

The one thing I'm wondering is if I should go ahead and upgrade Post-Zenkai Vegeta, Nailcolo, and Frieza's two middle forms to Rel+.

Sounds like a good idea. Ah also one thing: I think Frieza used 2% of his final form's full power to beat Vegeta.

frieza full power: 120 000 000

2%: 2 400 000

Frieza owned Vegeta, but just after that when he tried to use his death beams (btw: the technique's speed obviously depends on Frieza's from and the % of power he is using) against Goku's base form who dodged them easily (which makes sense because Goku's base form at that moment was 3 000 000 (so 2% frieza has 80% of base for goku's strenght/speed etc ...).

 

[SunWukong1986]

I had a question: how far was Frieza when he shot his Death Beams at Goku (though he reacted and deflected them) and Vegeta (who was shot to the chest when badly beaten)?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

well can some one crooed me if i am wrong but in the mang it said goku landed on the opisit side of namic and fly too gohan krilins add in sekens but i may be wrong it has been some time senes i have seen that page

sorry for spelling

 

[Lina_Shields]

I had a question: how far was Frieza when he shot his Death Beams at Goku (though he reacted and deflected them) and Vegeta (who was shot to the chest when badly beaten)?

Speaking of which, if we wanted to calculate the distance for this, you think the anime version of this scene could be used? The manga doesn't seem to have any proper scans of the picture that displays this...

 

[SunWukong1986]

I had a question: how far was Frieza when he shot his Death Beams at Goku (though he reacted and deflected them) and Vegeta (who was shot to the chest when badly beaten)?

Speaking of which, if we wanted to calculate the distance for this, you think the anime version of this scene could be used? The manga doesn't seem to have any proper scans of the picture that displays this...

What if it was in separate calcs between the manga and anime (maybe 4:3 screenshot/s would suffice)?

 

[Lina_Shields]

No. Even if I did two calculations for both manga and anime, the manga takes priority over the anime, and that one will be used.

 

[SunWukong1986]

well can some one crooed me if i am wrong but in the mang it said goku landed on the opisit side of namic and fly too gohan krilins add in sekens but i may be wrong it has been some time senes i have seen that page
sorry for spelling

From that, I did my own personal calculation, and it kinda looks like travel speed to me when he dashed from point A (where he was fully healed) to point B (where the fight is taken place between Frieza and Vegeta). I assume that Namek is like Earth since it's breathable for Krillin, Gohan and Bulma when they landed on Namek (just using it for an example), and it has the same gravity (if it were stronger, Bulma would've been crushed under that amount of weight and Krillin and Gohan would struggle and such). So the Earth's diameter is 12,742 km (7,917.5 mi), the circumference of the planet is about 40,075 km (24,901 mi). Goku streaks or rushed (otherwise flew at a high speed), he reached from one point to the end just before Frieza was about to finish off Vegeta. If I could say that it took Goku one second to cross halfway around the planet, then he'd be traveling about 72,135,000 km/h (44,822,610.952 mph), or Mach 58,418.367347. The speed of light travels at 299,792,458 m/s or Mach 874,030.4897959 in the vacuum. That's like 14.96 times faster than Goku. That's how I got it.

 

[Strmi]

Namek is bigger than EARTH,

 

[ShutUp123]

http://i.imgur.com/OjnR8OO.png
Here's the quote from the manga. Vegeta explicitly states it multiplied Goku's speed.

If what Vegeta said is true then ki and speed have the linear relation in case of kaioken and more likely in the case of ssj as well if body size remains the same.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

well can some one crooed me if i am wrong but in the mang it said goku landed on the opisit side of namic and fly too gohan krilins add in sekens but i may be wrong it has been some time senes i have seen that page
sorry for spelling

From that, I did my own personal calculation, and it kinda looks like travel speed to me when he dashed from point A (where he was fully healed) to point B (where the fight is taken place between Frieza and Vegeta). I assume that Namek is like Earth since it's breathable for Krillin, Gohan and Bulma when they landed on Namek (just using it for an example), and it has the same gravity (if it were stronger, Bulma would've been crushed under that amount of weight and Krillin and Gohan would struggle and such). So the Earth's diameter is 12,742 km (7,917.5 mi), the circumference of the planet is about 40,075 km (24,901 mi). Goku streaks or rushed (otherwise flew at a high speed), he reached from one point to the end just before Frieza was about to finish off Vegeta. If I could say that it took Goku one second to cross halfway around the planet, then he'd be traveling about 72,135,000 km/h (44,822,610.952 mph), or Mach 58,418.367347. The speed of light travels at 299,792,458 m/s or Mach 874,030.4897959 in the vacuum. That's like 14.96 times faster than Goku. That's how I got it.

i thout it took light 7 secans too go arand the crcnfrins of the earth

 

[Darkmon_cns]

i just looked i had it back words light can go arand the earth 7 times in 1 sekent

 

[SunWukong1986]

Namek is bigger than EARTH,

Just assuming.

 

[SunWukong1986]

well can some one crooed me if i am wrong but in the mang it said goku landed on the opisit side of namic and fly too gohan krilins add in sekens but i may be wrong it has been some time senes i have seen that page
sorry for spelling

From that, I did my own personal calculation, and it kinda looks like travel speed to me when he dashed from point A (where he was fully healed) to point B (where the fight is taken place between Frieza and Vegeta). I assume that Namek is like Earth since it's breathable for Krillin, Gohan and Bulma when they landed on Namek (just using it for an example), and it has the same gravity (if it were stronger, Bulma would've been crushed under that amount of weight and Krillin and Gohan would struggle and such). So the Earth's diameter is 12,742 km (7,917.5 mi), the circumference of the planet is about 40,075 km (24,901 mi). Goku streaks or rushed (otherwise flew at a high speed), he reached from one point to the end just before Frieza was about to finish off Vegeta. If I could say that it took Goku one second to cross halfway around the planet, then he'd be traveling about 72,135,000 km/h (44,822,610.952 mph), or Mach 58,418.367347. The speed of light travels at 299,792,458 m/s or Mach 874,030.4897959 in the vacuum. That's like 14.96 times faster than Goku. That's how I got it.

i thout it took light 7 secans too go arand the crcnfrins of the earth

Actually, light travels around the Earth 7.5 times in 1 second to be exact. I looked it up.

 

[Strmi]

http://i.imgur.com/OjnR8OO.pngHere's the quote from the manga. Vegeta explicitly states it multiplied Goku's speed.

If what Vegeta said is true then ki and speed have the linear relation in case of kaioken and more likely in the case of ssj as well if body size remains the same.

Ofc they have,it's just that for some reason here it's not accepted that SSJ also increase speed x50

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

^^^

It's because we don't use the SSJ multipliers.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

^^^
It's because we don't use the SSJ multipliers.

why is that?