DBS Manga Stats for Goku and Fusion Zamasu

[Bluetrekking]

Stats

Attack Potency and Durability:

• They would be very high-end 3-C because of this calc. It is also consistent with M. Zamasu stating that he was going to destroy the galaxy.

Speed:

• If this calc is accepted, they would be in the quadrillions c. Goku and Beerus' shock waves were able to travel the universe in a short amount of time as well.

Range

• The shockwaves from Beerus and Goku crossed the universe. Their range should be Universal

 

[Jobbo]

Goku and Zamasu would be 3-B due to being far superior to SSG Goku.

 

[AKM sama]

This is at least 3-B if not outright 3-A.

 

[Eminiteable]

What about this for speed feat?


e

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I don't get why the Goku vs Beerus clash isn't accepted as 3-A in the manga when it's literally the same as the anime.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Interesting.

 

[DodoNova2]

The speed is valable only for angels and not God, too bad

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

IIRC, shaking the universe without causing any collateral damage is 4-B. But yeah, there's still the whole shockwaves got stronger the further away from the clashing point is; which would make the feat in question 3-B at least. But then it's stated their next clash would have destroyed all physical matter. It would be baseline assuming they were in the center of the universe, but Earth is located in the North quadrant, so they're roughly 1.5x the radius from the universe's southern point; making the feat 1.5^3 or 3.375x the baseline of 3-A. Would still be 3-A if we gave Beerus half the credit 1.6875x to be specific.

But that discludes the fact that the afterlife is even larger than the physical universe. Assuming they're in the center of the physical universe would at least make the blast radius 3x the radius of the observable universe and make the feat 27x the baseline of 3-A. Or 13.5 if we give casual Beerus half the credit.

 

[Golden_Void]

I don't get why the Goku vs Beerus clash isn't accepted as 3-A in the manga when it's literally the same as the anime.

Same exact thing I said. Especially when Goku destroyed Beerus's blast, and both Champa and Beerus used that same attack on each other while saying "I don't care about this universe anymore", which at absolute lowball is 3-B. Then CSSB Goku was capable of going head-to-head with Merged Zamasu


Also why would you be using the shockwaves from punches as a speed? nononononnonononono

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, the shockwaves thing as speed is calc stacking.

 

[Antoniofer]

@DarkDragonMedeus, not quite calc stacking, but is getting speed from AP, something that isn't allowed.

Again, I wouldn't say that the Beerus that fought Champa is the same that fought SSG Goku, Beerus doesn't need to hold back against his brother, but he held back a lot against Goku. Anyway, current SSB Goku is already way above baseline 3-B.

 

[Bluetrekking]

I would like to address some points

• We have to lowball things. Unlike the anime, there is a singular statement with many different translations. Herms translated it to mean "universe in jeopardy" while Viz translated it to mean "universe destroyed". Most admins told me that using the universe shaking is a more solid rating.

• The speed feat scales to the Gods as Champa was with Vados performing the feat.

• I will remove the shockwaves for a speed justification.

 

[AKM sama]

The basic intention of that statement is still pretty clear. While one translation is a little vague, the other is spot on. The feat is almost identical to the anime. The basic idea which is "SSG vs GoD is going to destroy the universe" is still retained in both the anime and manga.

We don't have to lowball just for the sake of lowball. Saying that the manga only has 1 line about it is such a lazy excuse when we all know how rushed the manga was in the start that they completed the SSG ritual and transformation in 1 panel, completed the SSG vs GoD fight in a few panels and the whole arc in a few chapters. Hell, it even skipped the entirety of RoF arc.

 

[Jobbo]

The universe shaking feat isn't what made anime Goku 3-A.

 

[Bluetrekking]

@AKM

It doesn't matter how rushed the manga was. That's still Death of the Author. We can't relate manga feats to anime feats and vice versa.

 

[AKM sama]

I was not talking about the "universe shaking" feat. I was talking about the statement which blatantly states that the universe was going to be destroyed.

The idea of "well there is one statement only so it's automatically false, it needs to be repeated a zillion times, only then it will become true" is very disturbing.

 

[Ryukama]

Assuming that a direct adaptation of a universe busting feat in which that exact same attack is shown isn't Universe level, only because the adaptation said it'd destroy the universe one time as opposed to the anime saying it 4 times is a bit silly in my opinion.

"Merged Zamasu said he could destroy a galaxy"

Okay let's just downgrade the anime since Frieza said his strongest attack could destroy a planet, and because U6 Arc Goku was impressed by casual planetbusting.

 

[Antoniofer]

I don't think that someone used M. Zamasu statement as debunk, if not as supporting feat.

 

[Jobbo]

That feat was 3-B when it was done in the anime, though, so even if we assume it's the exact same as the anime it still wouldn't be 3-A.

 

[Golden_Void]

Why was it 3-B?

 

[Jobbo]

Because it would take multiple hits to fully destroy the universe, and Goku and Beerus were each putting in half the energy. Back then it was considered around 5x below baseline universal.

What got them to 3-A was that energy ball that was stated to be able to oneshot the universe and Beerus saying that Goku surpassed it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Shaking the universe is 3-B but, actually, the final strike was the only one that's relevant. SSG Goku was described as growing stronger and stronger by the second; it started as 3-B but eventually grew to 3-A and remained that strong and grew stronger throughout the series.

 

[Jobbo]

Except that wasn't the logic used at all. Even SSB Goku was rated 3-B for the longest time before someone mentioned the universe destroying energy ball.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, it wasn't that exclusively, it was also for those other reasons that I mentioned above. Yes, Goku used to be 3-B but that was mostly because we pretty much lowballed Goku as much as possible. And even then, it was still "At least Multi-Galaxy level+". There was also the fact that the afterlife was even larger than the physical universe was another justification for 3-A later on.

 

[Jobbo]

Those reasons were constantly rejected in several revision threads. They only became supporting arguments after someone linked to some scans of the universe destroying energy balls and Goku surpassing them.

 

[DMB_1]

Every officila translation that I've seen says that they would have destroyed the Universe. The only one that says otherwise is a fan-transaltion which was made when the chapter had just come out in Japan.

 

[Jobbo]

I'd be fine with 3-B SSG Goku based on that.

 

[Jobbo]

Goku does surpass his limits at the end of that fight, so I suppose manga SSG Goku really would be 3-A after all. And if he isn't, every version of him after that would definitely be 3-A.

 

[DMB_1]

Alos, Berus and Goku were on the Earth's stratosphere when they performed the Universe shaking feat, which expanded troughout the Universe. SInce the manga uses the original universe model of Dragonball Z, they should have been here, where Earth is. Maybe it can help at quantifying the potency a bit.

 

[Jobbo]

It's stated in both the anime and the manga that Earth is at the edge of the universe, so that's consistent. Yeah, universe busting from that range would definitely be 3-A even if you only supply half the power. Alright, he'd be 3-A even before breaking his limits.

 

[BlackeJan]

Now the question is....does he honestly stay 3-A through the arcs? meaning will he get an "At Least" or "High" w/ his Tier

 

[DMB_1]

Now the question is....does he stay 3-A through the arcs? meaning will he get an "At Least" or "High" w/ his Tier

Of course he does. Now we just have to wait of UI Goku to appear, and he might get an High 3-A feat, if he shakes the world of void.

 

[Jobbo]

The gap between 3-A and High 3-A is literally infinite, so no. But he's got to be an absurdly high end of 3-A by now.

 

[BlackeJan]

The gap between 3-A and High 3-A is literally infinite, so no. But he's got to be an absurdly high end of 3-A by now.

IMO he already should have been at a high end for 3-A like either during RoF or during/after Fututre Trunks arc

 

[Jobbo]

There are 3-As that are still far superior to him, for instance Amitabha from Touhou.

 

[TheRustyOne]

There are 3-As that are still far superior to him, for instance Amitabha from Touhou.

Is there any finite 3-A stronger then Amitabha in terms of AP?

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Quick question, would Fused Zamasu surviving Goku's Hakai count as resistance to existance erasure, mid-godly regen, or is the manga version of the hakai not existance erasure?

 

[Jobbo]

It's a weakness of the technique, Beerus says it can't kill immortals.

 

[AKM sama]

And we saw it working on Zamasu. The only way it wouldn't have killed Zamasu is that Zamasu would have regenerated from it.

 

[DodoNova2]

Quick question, would Fused Zamasu surviving Goku's Hakai count as resistance to existance erasure, mid-godly regen, or is the manga version of the hakai not existance erasure?

Because of Zamasu Immortality