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- #81
Android 17's disappearance was never mentioned, he just gave an emotional speech. Zeno didn't even try to eliminate Android 17
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DBS Goku hax revision
- Thread starter DonkeySlayer06
- Start date
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- Tags
- @dragon ball @goku
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Georredannea15
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Angels or people?
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Elder Kai said that he put up a barrier to protect Goku and Vegeta and then self-destructed to cancel out Jiren's blast
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- #84
Frankly, it was said by people like Grand Priest, Vados that Goku was gone, and Zeno was about to eliminate Goku. But Android 17's situation is different. Android 17's disappearance has never been said by anyone. And Zeno didn't even think about eliminating him.
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- #85
Elder Kai is ignorant unlike other Kai and gods. When Beerus said that Goku's form was Ultra Instinct, while all Kais knew what it was, the Kais of Universe 7 did not know about Ultra Instinct.
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This video leaves out the fact that the Grand Priest said the exact same thing he said about Goku when he supposedly died from his Spirit Bomb, except for Android 17: "We can assume that Android 17 destroyed himself. Universe 11's Jiren shall suffer no penalties"
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False equivalence. Not knowing about Ultra Instinct doesn't suddenly mean they know nothing
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Wtf there is a whole 30 second scene from
Grand Priest telling us Jiren won’t be penalized for killing his opponent because 17 blew himself up, the implication is very clear here, they all thought he died.
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- #89
That still doesn't explain why Zeno didn't eliminate him.
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Simply put: It's for plot sake, since we know that 17 did end up surviving.
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- #91
Are you saying he wasn't eliminated just for the plot? Sorry it doesn't make sense. How normal is it that Zeno doesn't eliminate Android 17 when he's going to eliminate Goku?
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I mean **** man, I could rat rn and argue that it isn’t a insult, I mean they didn’t seem offended by it lmao, nah I’m trolling
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- #93
Btw Resurrection can be given in Android 17. But that's the subject of a different CRT because the attack that Goku took was Genkidama
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I’m pretty sure gohan was just on another plane of existence, which is the kaioshin realm, we know his ki was already low and he hella far away, we know you at least need a suppressed ss3 goku lvls of energy to reach that far so it’s right to assume he was packed bc they couldn’t sense him at all. If his ki completely disappeared, he actually would’ve died since ki is your life force energy
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. 17 not being eliminated on the spot is what we call Plot-Induced Stupidity, a term that's used to describe something out of character that happens solely because the plot demands it.
And no, 17 is not getting Resurrection
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He tought it could be self-destruction cause Android 17 suddenly disappeared. Everyone tought he destroyed himself cause androids have no chi, no one sensed him. Goku's destruction is different because even gods and angels couldn't sense his ki. Also vados and grand priest stated he was destroyed himself.
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Ppl assumed 17 was dead bc he literally exploded himself? Like why wouldn’t you think he was dead, it’s literally a self destruct, especially the z fighters who already knew how the androids work, so pretty valid assumption
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The Grand Priest also said 17 destroyed himself
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Exactly
like bro destroyed himself, ofc they thought he was gone
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Because Android 17 doesn't have chi. Doesn't that explains everything?
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Goku also "destroyed himself" via his own Spirit Bomb, hence why the Grand Priest said the same thing about both Goku and 17
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That proves my point. Even beerus,gods,angels and gp couldn't able to sense goku's chi which means his body completely vaporized.
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Hardly changes much. You'd have to delve into theory-crafting territory to grant Regeneration or Resurrection for this.
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No it doesn't. Ki drops to astronomically low levels when you're near death
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The difference is right, goku has sensible ki, 17 doesn’t. Them assuming 17 died was from him literally blowing himself up. They assumed goku died bc he couldn’t be sensed, even tho if he was alive, he should’ve been sensed
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Again, ki dropping heavily is a result of being severely injured. Example off the top of my head: When Dr. Gero donuted Yamcha, everyone felt Yamcha's ki decrease substantially, indicating that something horrible had happened to him
It's neither
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- #108
We cannot equate Genkidama with Jiren's attack. Because as you know, the features of Genkidaman were available in Trunks' Sword Of Hope, so Fusion with Mid-Godly could damage Zamasu. What I mean is that even if the Grand Priest said they both disappeared, they both did not disappear in the same way. The revision I opened is about Goku's disappearance. The disappearance of Android 17 is a different matter of discussion.
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The Sword of Hope didn't even kill Zamasu though...
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But there is a statement about it.
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- #111
There is a difference between feeling ki and falling heavily. Yamcha's Ki was still palpable, even though it suddenly fell. Here, however, Goku cannot be felt by any angel or God. I wonder what you're going to attribute to Goku's Ultra Instinct not showing up for the first 3 seconds and then showing up later.
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- #112
It stopped regenerating. This is clearly stated and demonstrated. Goku states that Sword of Hope has the same features as Genkidama.
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It negated his mid-godly regen to where he could only live on as an idea but that's about it. I disagree with any form of resurrection or regen for Goku.
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You cannot use the Grand Priest statement to try and support Goku while then also dismissing the fact he made a similar statement about 17. Both characters were presumed deceased because they couldn't see or sense them. Both were done via "self-destruct" And both times were proven incorrect in literal moments. It's literally to create tension and hype for the anime.
On its own, maybe, you can justify it. But then you have the other issue---
It is not necessary to go the logic of "they couldn't sense Goku because he was vaporized" or whatever else, because we know characters can fail to sense each other if their ki drops below a certain threshold. It's just taking the most extreme route possible to try and give Goku a new ability.
On its own, maybe, you can justify it. But then you have the other issue---
It is not necessary to go the logic of "they couldn't sense Goku because he was vaporized" or whatever else, because we know characters can fail to sense each other if their ki drops below a certain threshold. It's just taking the most extreme route possible to try and give Goku a new ability.
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- #115
How do you think Goku escaped from Genkidama, which contained all of Universe 7, Jireni, and his own Ki?
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In truth he was likely just near-dead from that hit.
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Oh no, I'm not arguing against its status as pretty much an honorary Spirit Bomb, but it didn't even kill Zamasu to begin with
You most definitely can't say this because Zamasu continued to exist
Dropping to an infinitesimally small amount of Ki that can hardly be felt, if even at all, is a very strong possibility
As for the Ultra Instinct not showing up thing... Yeah that's literally just suspense. A more in-universe explanation would be that Goku's in the process of his awakening/breaking through his shell. Hell, they even slow down Zeno moving to press the button to eliminate Goku to build up that suspense
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- #119
The state of extinction in the two is definitely different. You can see this in the comments I wrote above. The extinction and return of Android 17 is a different matter of discussion. The issue I'm dealing with here is Goku's annihilation. In particular, you need to offer me an anti-feat about why Goku doesn't appear in the first 3 seconds of Ultra Instinct and then appears later. Goku's Ki could not be felt in any case and his disappearance was voiced by Champa, Vados, GP. Needless to say, the attack he tanked was one with a Mid-Godly Neg.
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?????????????????? It's literally accepted that Trunks has possibly mid-godly negation. Plus Zamasu continued to exist as an abstract thought/idea not as a mind/body/soul.
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