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DB Characters half 2-C downgrade

Gohanblanco217

Gohanblanco217

3,566
877
Oaky soooooo currently DB Characters god tiers are rated as at least Low 2-C due to them scaling to Beerus and Champa who were going to destroy the Universe 6 and 7 which is basically 2-C and by that logic a single God of destruction would be half 2-C making them way above Low 2-C baseline, however I still have many issues with it :

Argument 1 : It was stated that the fight between Beerus and Champa would destroy 2 separated universes so it's clearly a 2-C feat.

No? I mean yes they were going to destroy 2 separated universes so the result of the destruction would 2-C that's true, however we don't really know the exact amount of time frame that would take for them to destroy the 2 universes it's kind similar to BoG Goku vs Beerus manga feat who is 3-B for him being stated to destroy the entire Universe in an unknow amount of time frame, it's funny how we just added the word "at least" into theire AP justification and it's like the scaling is better now while it got much worse lol

Argument 2: But time frame doesn't matter when it comes to tier 2

No just no? time frame doesn't matter when it comes to tier 2 however that only applies if the entire space-time is being affected which isn't the case here since there is no proof that Beerus and Champa were affecting the entire space-time contenum, while statements like "they are going to destroy the entire Universe" or some ***** like that aren't enough arguments for a Low 2-C feat especially that BoG Goku and beerus feat had similar statements but yet the feat itself was only 3-A, not only to mention that the visual feats alone shows that Beerus and Champa were only affecting 3D celestial objects nothing shows and nothing states that the space and time itself was being affected.

Argument 3 : Beerus is Low 2-C therefore the feat between him and Champa was clearly Low 2-C

Okay so no one braught up this argument but I'm just gonna post it just in case :

While I do agree that Beerus is Low 2-C due to him scaling above IZ that doesn't mean Beerus and Champa used the same amount of energy to destroy both U7 and 6, BoG Goku and Beerus feat was only 3-A despite of beerus being Low 2-C.

Conclusion :

DB characters God tier are still at least Low 2-C but that Only due to them scaling above IZ who is baseline Low 2-C, Beerus and Champa feat is something that was goind to be done over time or in an unknown amount of time frame (it would be at best a baseline Low 2-C feat)

Agree :greatsage13th, tyranodoom30,matthew_schroeder,san-kakarot,

Disagree :

Neutral : shrekanakin, the_unknown_warrior1, infiniteday,lightreinh12345,
 
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... 🤣🤣🤣 Oh my lord. Anyways Beerus’ and Champa’s feat should scale to their EE and not AP (unless EE will scale to AP), that’s all I’m gonna say here. Have fun yeeting everything else.
 
Greenshifter said:
... 🤣🤣🤣 Oh my lord. Anyways Beerus’ and Champa’s feat should scale to their EE and not AP (unless EE will scale to AP), that’s all I’m gonna say here. Have fun yeeting everything else.
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I mean even if his EE scales to his AP it would still be at least baseline low 2-C thought so it doesn't really matter, do you have any other arguments regarding the downgrade?
 
Isn't the deconstruction that their destruction energy causes just pre-retcon EE? Kinda looked like their destruction energy was the thing getting out of hand as well since Whis and Vados stopped them right before it hit Goku and Vegeta and would have presumably kept expanding till both of their universes would be destroyed (at an accelerated rate of course). Heck this was one of the reasons that Beerus and Champa even got a resistance to EE in the first place.
 
Their energy is purple, whereas the Energy of Destruction is dark purple. Also, the energy "barrier"(?) didn't erase Whis and Vados, who aren't resistant to Existence Erasure, and only caused the floor beneath them to crumble and cave in, which proves this wasn't Destruction Energy, just regular energy.
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Regular energy doesn’t reduce something to dust that way. Whis and Vados would get EE resistance. I think it’s also light purple when the GoD’s fight yet it’s accepted as EE, not too sure on the coloring tho.
 
KingTempest said:
AKM boutta turn red
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
We literally have at least three Dragon Ball threads going on all at once; the speed one, the Ribrianne scaling, the Low 2-C Goku Black saga cast, and now this one. Not to mention, AKM Sama is really not going to be happy about this one.
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I don't care if he is not going to be happy, I'm posting facts here, the half 2-C rating is literally just based on a feat that was done in an unknown amount of time frame with literally 0 proof that they were destroying the entire space-time contenum ignoring the fact that the visual feats alone prove my point
 
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Actually, I'll come back to explain why Universe 7 is considered Low 2-C structured, but it actually comes from Zamasu's feat. I have to leave for work like right now.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, I'll come back to explain why Universe 7 is considered Low 2-C structured, but it actually comes from Zamasu's feat. I have to leave for work like right now.
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I never said that the U7 isn't a Low 2-C structure? I'm just saying there is no proof that Beerus and Champa were affecting the entire space-time as whole (don't know if that's what you meant)
 
If it was overtime it"s still close to 2-C due to them breaching the distance between both Universes 6 and 7.
 
The vsbattles definition of "At Least" is "used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate."

So according to the thread here, GoD tiers would lose "at least" entirely and just get "Low 2-C", since we know for a fact the exact value is below baseline 2-C. Same "tier", just accurate use of vsbattles terms.

However, characters who notably scale above GoD tiers can get "at least Low 2-C".
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
The vsbattles definition of "At Least" is "used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate."

So according to the thread here, GoD tiers would lose "at least" entirely and just get "Low 2-C", since we know for a fact the exact value is below baseline 2-C. Same "tier", just accurate use of vsbattles terms.

However, characters who notably scale above GoD tiers can get "at least Low 2-C".
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This, the God tiers of the verse are the one who should have at least Low 2-C baseline due to them scaling far above IZ
 
Anyway, Infinite Zamasu was merging with the timeline and approaching to attempt merges with other space-time continuums. And it's implied he was only merging with Universe 7 and there've been plenty of statements from Toriyama about Universe 7 specifically having space-time barriers. A lot of people think the 12 universes are just big 3-A sized pocket realities as opposed to universes, but Zamasu was also merging with the main timeline. It's unknown if he merged with the entirety of Trunks timeline; thus all 12 universes or if he just merged with Universe 7. But more likely the latter. But that also makes U7 feat Low 2-C structure.

Now as for Beerus and Champa nuking their respective universes or other GoD duos doing the same thing. The problem comes from how Inverse Square law works. If you're striking within one universe, and a parallel universe gets got in a crossfire. And it's literally just nuking it, the interdimensional explosion would also have to cross the 4th spatial dimension that separates the two or more universes. The space-time Continuum of Universe 7 would have to be nuked before it can even cross half that distance from Beerus' attack alone. And as for Champa's his blast would have to nuke all of Universe 6 and cross half the spatial distance as well. If their combined might can cross the entire distance, it just comes out that way in the end.
 
Oh boy..Well I am going to explain your arguments with reasoning as to why it isn't the case.Lets start shall we?
Gohanblanco217 said:
No? I mean yes they were going to destroy 2 separated universes so the result of the destruction would 2-C that's true, however we don't really know the exact amount of time frame that would take for them to destroy the 2 universes it's kind similar to BoG Goku vs Beerus manga feat who is 3-B for him being stated to destroy the entire Universe in an unknow amount of time frame, it's funny how we just added the word "at least" into theire AP justification and it's like the scaling is better now while it got much worse lol
Click to expand...
Well the statement doesn't mention any time frame or any implication of over time so based on default assumption it would be a 1 time feat unless otherwise stated.Even if we ignore that statement its is heavily implied that Beerus and Champa were going to destriy universe 6 and 7 in one kick which is why Whis and Vados stopped them when they weren't doing anything about them exchanging multiple blows so if they weren't going to destroy universe 6 and 7 with that kick there is no reason to for them to stop Beerus and Champa.


Skip to 1:30

For BOG manga case it was stated by Elder Kai that at this rate they are going it would destroy the universe 7 meaning it obviously would be overtime process for destroying universe 7.In Beerus and Champa case there is no mention of time frame or amount of blows needed to destroy the universe 7 so the example doesn't match.Atleast is fine considering that 2 Low 2-C cant perform a baseline 2-C feat while Beerus and Champa can(Sorry I dont know how to insert images in new forum since URL system is confusing)
Gohanblanco217 said:
No just no? time frame doesn't matter when it comes to tier 2 however that only applies if the entire space-time is being affected which isn't the case here since there is no proof that Beerus and Champa were affecting the entire space-time contenum, while statements like "they are going to destroy the entire Universe" or some ***** like that aren't enough arguments for a Low 2-C feat especially that BoG Goku and beerus feat had similar statements but yet the feat itself was only 3-A, not only to mention that the visual feats alone shows that Beerus and Champa were only affecting 3D celestial objects nothing shows and nothing states that the space and time itself was being affected
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The reason why we know that Beerus and Champa were affecting space and time continums is because they both combined were going to destroy universe 6 and 7 which are seperated spatio-temporally.If they were just going to destroy the matter of the universes then they wouldn't be able to cross universe 7 and destroy universe 6 and their destruction would be limited to universe 7 unless you are saying they have atleast 2-C range or something.Reason why BOG feats aren't Low 2-C is because there is no proof that they were going to destroy universe 7 space and time continum,in this case they were going to destroy 2 universes despite them being seperated by timelines so it wouldn't be possible for 3-A attacks to destroy 2 universes.I mean their destruction just barely extended to room so visuals cant be used to showcase the destruction they are going to do.
Gohanblanco217 said:
Okay so no one braught up this argument but I'm just gonna post it just in case :

While I do agree that Beerus is Low 2-C due to him scaling above IZ that doesn't mean Beerus and Champa used the same amount of energy to destroy both U7 and 6, BoG Goku and Beerus feat was only 3-A despite of beerus being Low 2-C.
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While I wouldn't use argument 3 because 2 Low 2-C alone cant destory 2 universes so its not a good argument but however to comment on this,it would make no sense for Beerus and Champa to just not use Low 2-C energy against themselves when they are roughly comparable,SSG Goku was nowhere near Beerus but that isn't the case with Champa who is a much more formidable opponent than BOG SSG Goku.

I apologize for the long comment of mine,I just wanted to explain each and every point in elaborate manner.So based on reasons I have given,I dont agree with the downgrade.
 
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My_area said:
Oh boy..Well I am going to explain your arguments with reasoning as to why it isn't the case.Lets start shall we?

Well the statement doesn't mention any time frame or any implication of over time so based on default assumption it would be a 1 time feat unless otherwise stated.Even if we ignore that statement its is heavily implied that Beerus and Champa were going to destriy universe 6 and 7 in one kick which is why Whis and Vados stopped them when they weren't doing anything about them exchanging multiple blows so if they weren't going to destroy universe 6 and 7 with that kick there is no reason to for them to stop Beerus and Champa.


Skip to 1:30

For BOG manga case it was stated by Elder Kai that at this rate they are going it would destroy the universe 7 meaning it obviously would be overtime process for destroying universe 7.In Beerus and Champa case there is no mention of time frame or amount of blows needed to destroy the universe 7 so the example doesn't match.Atleast is fine considering that 2 Low 2-C cant perform a baseline 2-C feat while Beerus and Champa can(Sorry I dont know how to insert images in new forum since URL system is confusing)

The reason why we know that Beerus and Champa were affecting space and time continums is because they both combined were going to destroy universe 6 and 7 which are seperated spatio-temporally.If they were just going to destroy the matter of the universes then they wouldn't be able to cross universe 7 and destroy universe 6 and their destruction would be limited to universe 7 unless you are saying they have atleast 2-C range or something.Reason why BOG feats aren't Low 2-C is because there is no proof that they were going to destroy universe 7 space and time continum,in this case they were going to destroy 2 universes despite them being seperated by timelines so it wouldn't be possible for 3-A attacks to destroy 2 universes.I mean their destruction just barely extended to room so visuals cant be used to showcase the destruction they are going to do.

While I wouldn't use argument 3 because 2 Low 2-C alone cant destory 2 universes so its not a good argument but however to comment on this,it would make no sense for Beerus and Champa to just not use Low 2-C energy against themselves when they are roughly comparable,SSG Goku was nowhere near Beerus but that isn't the case with Champa who is a much more formidable opponent than BOG SSG Goku.

I apologize for the long comment of mine,I just wanted to explain each and every point in elaborate manner.So based on reasons I have given,I dont agree with the downgrade.
Click to expand...

Well explained.
 
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