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Darth Vader (Star Wars) vs Raiden (Metal Gear Solid)

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Please let me know if you've voted and I haven't taken it into account ^^
 
DaReaperMan said:
Which Vader doesn't actually do that all that often, plus he probably wouldn't even recognize the EMPs Raiden can use

Also just saying I remember Vader not exactly having TK into just hold em there in-character
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****

In character

The bane of my existence

This is why Mega Man lost to sonic
 
If it's SBA then Vader is in character and I can't think of single instance where Vader has lifted someone with TK and threw his lightsaber at them or something.

Vader is a bruiser at the core of his character and enjoys a brawl imo.
 
Yeah, Vader vastly prefers lightsaber combat in a direct fight with someone, like at least 90% of his fights in canon comics are Lightsaber ones
 
DaReaperMan said:
Raiden abuses the **** out of Blade Mode yes
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Now it just depends on if Vader's precog is good enough to survive it, he should already be more skilled and having mastered a style that focuses on countering aggressive blows should let him be able to deal with it if its good enough, but i'm not sure how good it is
 
Raiden doesn't lead with blade mode. It's a finishing action or something he uses to exploit a time sensitive weakness like joints or weak areas.

He's not going to hopscotch towards Vader and activitie blade ripper mode or anything. He'll use it to slice off Vader's arm or lightsaber if he gets the opening though.

CBslayeR said:
Bumping this too since this is basically crucial to whether I vote Vader or Raiden
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Depends. Lightsaber would injure Raiden but not instantly slice through him if you base his endurance on the EXECLSUS's Plasma beams.

But Doktor explicitly mentioned in a codec that a Plasma sword would be far better than Raiden's HF blade in regards to chopping through enemies. So it and go either way.

CBslayeR said:
Vader's precog is good enough to survive it,
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Vader's precog isn't like the one from Next where its absoulte perfect future vision. He just get vague notions or feelings regarding future events and has been taken completely off guard or gotten tagged multiple times because of his precog being vague
 
Advantages for Vader:

AP
Speed
Skill arguably (Vader's one of the greatest Jedi skillwise iirc, and has fought in wars similar to Raiden)
Precog (would let him easily dodge Raiden's attacks combined with his speed advantage)
Form V (A defensive style that's focused on doing large counter attacks to more aggressive foes, like Raiden basically lol)
Barriers (lets him block projectiles/emps from Raiden, but might be OOC)
Rage Power

Advantages for Raiden

HF Blade (Dura negating sword that can oneshot vader if he gets hit)
Electricity attacks
Blade Mode (10x Speed amp that Vader's precog might not be good enough to counter)
Healing
Resistant to the heat value the Lightsaber scales to (should make it to where Raiden can take a few hits without worry)
EMPs (Vader is ****** if he gets hit by one of these)
Higher LS (If Vader lifts him he can start throwing projectiles and block any attacks Vader tries to throw at him while held up)

Ripper Mode isn't a thing here btw, we're using 8-A keys.


I think I'm gonna vote Raiden since Vader has to work way harder to win, Vader has to hit Raiden multiple times with his saber. Raiden only needs one clean hit to win the fight, and has extra hax on top of that that let him automatically win like EMPs or make up for his disadvantage in raw stats like Blade Mode or Electricity (which Vader is weak to).
 
Abstractions said:
We are talking about a guy who bested a master swordsman in a 1v1 fight with nothing more than knowledge he obtained from watching movies in his first game, the guy has incredible adaptability.
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Yeah, but I'm not 100% sure he's as skilled as the various quasi-immortal battle masters who have fought for thousands of years and know basically every single combat style invented.

But he's still as good/better than Vader in terms of skill.
 
It seems pretty clear. If it goes to close quarters Raiden eventually activates Blade Mode and something Vader needs gets chopped off. And then Raiden does a Blade Mode finishing move. If Vader lifts him telekinetically Raiden blocks any projectiles with Blade Mode and flings EMP grenades, eventually bricking Vader. The only scenario I see Vader winning in is if he goes with a a mind trick, a win con that is frequently stated to only work on the weak minded and which Vader doesn't use much in character. Seems like another "Raiden wins via speed amps" situation.
 
Stillwinston said:
Hmmmm, all the stuff said above is making me want to vote inconclusive here ngl. Vader has precog, TK, mind stuff to muck Raiden over but I assume force choke won't be of much use here. But Raiden has Blade Mode and electrical stuff and HF Blade which is gonna be nasty for Vader. Skill wise I guess they're both about even, from what I remember though Raiden tends to be more aggressive while Vader prefers general Form V tactics which is to defend then hit back harder.
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there's an incon vote you didn't count here
 
I will say I am slightly confused where Raiden being a skilled master of the sword came from. He's self taught from watching movies and seems to have no real training. Him fighting a master swordsman is less impressive than it seems given that he had been partially blinded and injured in a plane crash earlier in the day and was undoubtedly not at his peak. He knows how the weapons work and is experienced with them, but I wouldn't say he's a master of anything. Not voting either way, just saying.
 
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Torlikoff said:
I will say I am slightly confused where Raiden being a skilled master of the sword came from. He's self taught from watching movies and seems to have no real training. Him fighting a master swordsman is less impressive than it seems given that he had been partially blinded and injured in a plane crash earlier in the day and was undoubtedly not at his peak. He knows how the weapons work and is experienced with them, but I wouldn't say he's a master of anything.
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My dude, have you seen the shit he pulled off in 4? It's not like he got any extra training with a sword in 4. At one point he's attacking with the sword and keeping in airborne through a flurry of strikes while fighting Vamp (which is kinda funny given how useless that is in action but I ain't one to judge), or deflecting his strikes and doing a bunch of weird fancy shit with it.
He's self taught and yet he's still displaying master level expertise with a blade. The dude can fight with a sword with just his feet and even mouth with sufficient proficiency even. Hell it's not just swords too, he actually one ups Vamp in a knife fight, Vamp being someone who is explicitly stated to have mastery over knives and bladed weapons. He picked up a sword, Like literally ten seconds after, and immediately goes on to being able to deflect and cut bullets and take out Tengu's (who themselves are master level, it's not just Solidus that Raiden goes on to beat in that sequence). He doesn't even have the sword for a full minute and he's already pulling off wacky anime moves.

And no, Solidus not being at his "peak" isn't really an excuse, he was just fine five minutes prior, he might have been injured that same day but when has that ever effected ANYONE in MGS, doubly so given Solidus actually got treatment almost immediately and was fine following that in every single following cutscene and sequence, the dude was even taking out whole Metal Gear's on his lonesome or ******* with Raiden and didn't display any signs of being "weakened" or any visible exhaustion at all after the fact, he might be blind in one eye, but that isn't gonna magically compromise him or undermine what Raiden did and it isn't like Raiden himself didn't go through ten times as much shit as Solidus did (such as the whole game) from physical to even emotional, plus given he's a perfect clone of BB physically and we all know how much a lost eye did him in (it didn't, dude proceeded to just get better, within that very same day).

Raiden has no self training, is self taught and his skills are of his own making. That's not a detriment to his skill, it's a testament, he's that insane WITHOUT being taught, imagine if he was? Raiden is a master swordsman, he's also a master of every firearm known to man, tracking, martial arts, espionage, stealth, acrobatics, and even some vehicular training is slapped in there due to his VR Training.
Raiden might be no Sam when it comes to the sword, but Sam's just on some next level shit with a sword w̵h̵o̵ ̵R̵a̵i̵d̵e̵n̵ ̵w̵e̵n̵t̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵b̵e̵a̵t̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵w̵a̵y̵.
 
Chariot190 said:
My dude, have you seen the shit he pulled off in 4? It's not like he got any extra training with a sword in 4. At one point he's attacking with the sword and keeping in airborne through a flurry of strikes while fighting Vamp (which is kinda funny given how useless that is in action but I ain't one to judge), or deflecting his strikes and doing a bunch of weird fancy shit with it.
He's self taught and yet he's still displaying master level expertise with a blade. The dude can fight with a sword with just his feet and even mouth with sufficient proficiency even. Hell it's not just swords too, he actually one ups Vamp in a knife fight, Vamp being someone who is explicitly stated to have mastery over knives and bladed weapons. He picked up a sword, Like literally ten seconds after, and immediately goes on to being able to deflect and cut bullets and take out Tengu's (who themselves are master level, it's not just Solidus that Raiden goes on to beat in that sequence). He doesn't even have the sword for a full minute and he's already pulling off wacky anime moves.
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I getcha. MGS4 is the only main game I haven't finished. I will say that last one seems to be more of a speed feat, but that's splitting hairs.
 
MGS4 Raiden does wacky shit with his sword, he even fends off a small army of FROGs with his blade, with just his mouth (because his arms gone destroyed), and he could fend them off for like 3-4 minutes, while being poisoned and handicapped, killing a bunch before getting eventually overwhelmed, and only because he was attacked by like a good 10-20 at once. He's just overall pretty damn exceptional, at one point he even breakdances on his sword's hilt while fighting Vamp.

The bullet thing is a speed feat yeah, it's actually one of his best ones, but he still needs to have the skill, form and control and what not to actually slice tiny things like that out of the air in perfect unison in a single stroke when being fired at from 4, up to 8, different directions at once, all the while being able to perfectly lead into a follow up stroke and so on. If there's one thing Raiden is good at, it's adaption, give him an inch and he'll give you a mile, he's just really good at picking up on stuff.
 
Torlikoff said:
plane crash earlier in the day and was undoubtedly not at his peak
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I don't know about that. Solidus was in a suit of power armor which would offset the injuries and if he's at all comparable to Solid Snake then he likely scales to Gray Fox, who's a super solider since like age 8 and was known to kill entire squads of soldiers with just a knife before getting any of his enhancements. Plus even a human Raiden was superior to someone who knew a martial art stupid effective in-universe
Snake: Never felt right using the technique learned from a man who'd betray his unit. Thinking back, CQC as a concept was (way) ahead of its time. No one was using it yet - not the Green Berets or the SEALS or the CIA Paramilitaries...

Otacon: And then earlier this year the Pentagon declassifies Big Boss's file for some reason. All of a sudden his story is the stuff of pop culture - books, magazines, the net. And now people are taking another look at CQC.

Snake: The war criminal, reinvented as a hero.

Otacon: Big Boss's exploits as a Cold War secret agent back in the 60's have made him a legend.

Snake: The less people know about the truth, the more they can fantasize.

Otacon: Is that the reason why you decided to CQC? Because it is no longer just his, anymore?

Snake: The CQC soldiers are using nowadays is a pale imitation. They're learning from reading about it. I learned from doing, and there's a world of difference.
Click to expand...
Though that's not to take away anything from Vader who has something akin to thirty years of lightsaber training under the Jedi Order and Sidious.
 
Oh right before I forget here's the plasma sword quote I mentioned earlier
Doktor: It is a high-frequency blade, Raiden, not a plasma sword. There are limits to what it can cut. The HF waves strengthen the metallic bonds in the blade, improving its cutting ability... But in terms of pure physics, no blade can, erm, cut it in every situation. Theoretically speaking, an HF blade can damage anything, no matter how tough. But thick ceramic or carbon nanotube armor does not simply split open like butter with a hot knife. You need to chip away at it first, before you can destroy such material.
Click to expand...
Here is RAY's equipment as well
Raiden: We got anything on that RAY I went up against?

Boris: (Mmm) We analyzed the wreckage... Its musculature had been replaced with CNT muscle fiber. The same type as you, or most any cyborg. This improved its power output, and left more room in the chassis for other equipment. It seems they filled this space with vetronics and extra weapons...

Raiden: Like that heat blade and plasma gun... Plasma loses effectiveness in the air pretty quickly, but it's still a hell of a close-range weapon...

Boris: Large-scale UGs have a growing problem fighting smaller, more agile opponents like you, Raiden... This is why we now see UGs armed with new countermeasures, such as this RAY had.
Click to expand...
So the RAY (and likely EXCELSUS) bladed weapons aren't plasma, but whatever a heat blade is.

The beams are plasma and Raiden doesn't die if they hit him, but they do cause a rather massive amount of damage and he can't take more than a couple direct hits.
 
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